‘A Catholic case for same-sex marriage’

[Charlemagne_II]

To deny the existence of false gods and affirm the existence of the true God is not to be an atheist. But people who deny the existence of all gods are relatively few. That is the reason morality still exists. If all gods were denied by everyone, we would be like animals, who also have no gods.

 

[aprilfloyd]

Say what?

Are you saying that most believers are monotheists? If so, I suppose, but there sure are a lot of Hindus in the world.

I thought hindus had one god.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

april

What did they teach you about natural law in your law course?

 

[aprilfloyd]

To deny the existence of false gods and affirm the existence of the true God is not to be an atheist. But people who deny the existence of all gods are relatively few. That is the reason morality still exists. If all gods were denied by everyone, we would be like animals, who also have no gods.

Morality does not require god, I can be a moral person and not follow a god.

Most people deny the existence or importance of other gods they don’t subscribe too. Few people follow more than one religion, but more than one religion can follow the same god

No one knows if there is one true god. There is simply no proof

 

[buffalo]

Morality does not require god, I can be a moral person and not follow a god.

Most people deny the existence or importance of other gods they don’t subscribe too. Few people follow more than one religion, but more than one religion can follow the same god

No one knows if there is one true god. There is simply no proof

There is proof all around you.

Morality does indeed require God, for God is truth itself.

 

[aprilfloyd]

april

What did they teach you about natural law in your law course?

Too much to cover here, but christian natural law was a small part and natural law precedes it.

 

[aprilfloyd]

There is proof all around you.

Morality does indeed require God, for God is truth itself.

With all due respect, I mean proof in the technical and real sense as in verifiable and peer reviewed evidence. It is accepted that religion is based on faith and no evidence.

Morality does not require a god - to say that people cannot be moral without a god, just simply does not make sense.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

april

**Morality does not require a god - to say that people cannot be moral without a god, just simply does not make sense. **

Oh, they can be moral for sure if they follow the natural law … but so many deny even the existence of that.

Morality for those who do not believe can be acquired just by living in a relatively religious society, where the awareness of Christian precepts dominates and guides atheists even when they are not aware of how much of their behavior really is “christian.”

 

[Charlemagne_II]

april

**Too much to cover here, but christian natural law was a small part and natural law precedes it. **

In what sense does natural law precede Christian natural law?

 

[aprilfloyd]

april

**Morality does not require a god - to say that people cannot be moral without a god, just simply does not make sense. **

Oh, they can be moral for sure if they follow the natural law … but so many deny even the existence of that.

Morality for those who do not believe can be acquired just by living in a relatively religious society, where the awareness of Christian precepts dominates and guides atheists even when they are not aware of how much of their behaviour really is “christian.”

I will grant you that Christianity has adopted morality and teaches a mostly ethical morality, but it did not create morality - but Christian behaviour can be moral.

I don’t think people actually do deny natural law it has been involved in the development of many legal systems around the world and we have evolved as humans to have an innate morality

 

[aprilfloyd]

april

**Too much to cover here, but christian natural law was a small part and natural law precedes it. **

In what sense does natural law precede Christian natural law?

I meant chronologically before Jesus, ancient civilizations show developments of a natural law. In scotland it is sometimes known as common sense law

 

[Elizabeth502]

I thought hindus had one god.

Depends on how one interprets the fact that their Supreme Being has many god-forms. It’s not exactly like the Christian Trinity, which is not tri-theistic but monotheistic, and there being no distinction in essence among the three. (The Christian Trinity shares an essence.)

Hinduism names its many gods as separate gods.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

april
**
I don’t think people actually do deny natural law it has been involved in the development of many legal systems around the world and we have evolved as humans to have an innate morality **

The subject of this thread is same-sex marriage. There is no natural law foundation anywhere in western civilization for it. So how can it be part of what you call “innate morality”?

**I meant chronologically before Jesus, ancient civilizations show developments of a natural law. In scotland it is sometimes known as common sense law **

Natural law is also found in Moses long before it was found in Scotland.

 

[aprilfloyd]

april
**
I don’t think people actually do deny natural law it has been involved in the development of many legal systems around the world and we have evolved as humans to have an innate morality **

The subject of this thread is same-sex marriage. There is no natural law foundation anywhere in western civilization for it. So how can it be part of what you call “innate morality”?

**I meant chronologically before Jesus, ancient civilizations show developments of a natural law. In scotland it is sometimes known as common sense law **

Natural law is also found in Moses long before it was found in Scotland.

Morality and law are different, human sexuality is innate. I find it hard to believe that homosexuals like other persecuted groups have not been on a long journey to equality, including marriage equality

 

[At_His_Feet_1]

We are ‘animals’ in the zoological sense, but God created us to be ‘more’ than just the animals of the earth; let alone behave as they do.

As well, we were given the ability to discern right from wrong, and specific laws from our Creator; to not only aid us physically but most important - spiritually.

God said that we shouldn’t ‘lay with the beasts’. To have nothing to do with their habits.

Within that statement itself, it stands to reason that we shouldn’t imitate what the beasts do. We are to revere and mirror the actions of our Lord and not his creation.

We were given stewardship over the beasts of the earth. Not to incorporate their animalistic behaviors into our beings.

Therefore, to state that ‘just because nature exhibits forms of homosexuality’, really doesn’t give anyone clearance to do the same.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

april

**Morality and law are different, human sexuality is innate. I find it hard to believe that homosexuals like other persecuted groups have not been on a long journey to equality, including marriage equality **

Which “other persecuted groups” are you comparing them with?

 

[adrift]

Morality and law are different, human sexuality is innate. I find it hard to believe that homosexuals like other persecuted groups have not been on a long journey to equality, including marriage equality

It is not an established fact that homosexuality is innate. They may have families but they cannot establish a family without outside help of the opposite sex that is what is innate about sexuality. You need both sexes to create a child.

 

[edwest2]

It’s all here:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

Peace,
Ed

 

[Charlemagne_II]

from the article referenced by Ed West

**The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions. The common good requires that laws recognize, promote and protect marriage as the basis of the family, the primary unit of society. Legal recognition of homosexual unions or placing them on the same level as marriage would mean not only the approval of deviant behaviour, with the consequence of making it a model in present-day society, but would also obscure basic values which belong to the common inheritance of humanity. The Church cannot fail to defend these values, for the good of men and women and for the good of society itself.

The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, in the Audience of March 28, 2003, approved the present Considerations, adopted in the Ordinary Session of this Congregation, and ordered their publication.

Rome, from the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, June 3, 2003, Memorial of Saint Charles Lwanga and his Companions, Martyrs.

Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect

Angelo Amato, S.D.B.
Titular Archbishop of Sila
Secretary **

 

[Steveabrous]

I

you said:

“Homosexuality as far as I can see does not impede procreation at all. Heterosexuals can procreate and so can homosexuals. Homosexuality has never stopped humans procreating and human evolution continuing and populations growing.”

I know I’m going to regret this but here goes. How can you say that homosexuals procreate? Homosexual sex can not produce a child.