‘A Catholic case for same-sex marriage’

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Well we’ll have to agree to disagree. Clearly I’m in the minority here.
Well…why do you need to agree to disagree? Did not Jesus say, for a disagreement such as this…we should bring it to the Church?

And did not Jesus say we should all be one in John 17…and Eph 4 says there is one faith, one baptism…so how does agreeing to disagree fulfill the prayer of Christ in John 17?
 
Well…why do you need to agree to disagree? Did not Jesus say, for a disagreement such as this…we should bring it to the Church?

And did not Jesus say we should all be one in John 17…and Eph 4 says there is one faith, one baptism…so how does agreeing to disagree fulfill the prayer of Christ in John 17?
Maybe even 1 Peter 3:15
 
You are wrong here. I have a wife and we have three children. I LOVE them all but I’m only married to one. Marriage is more than just love. That is why states forbid marrying children, close relatives, and same sex unions.
Yes, but I could very well say you were wrong here. Indeed marriage is more than just love, it is a lifelong commitment and bond. That’s why I believe it should be open to same sex couples.
 
Well…why do you need to agree to disagree? Did not Jesus say, for a disagreement such as this…we should bring it to the Church?

And did not Jesus say we should all be one in John 17…and Eph 4 says there is one faith, one baptism…so how does agreeing to disagree fulfill the prayer of Christ in John 17?
Because if I disagree with something I know that if I stand up, voice a different opinion and engage in healthy debate God would be pleased. If I just conformed to the current status and went along with it, even though I was betraying my heart and every instinct in my body God would be disappointed.

It seems that I won’t be convincing anyone on this forum that homosexuality is not a sin, and you’re never going to convince me it is, so the best option seems to be to agree to disagree.
 
It seems that I won’t be convincing anyone on this forum that homosexuality is not a sin, and you’re never going to convince me it is, so the best option seems to be to agree to disagree.
Whereas, in all honesty from what I can tell it is in fact a sin, and it is almost inconceivable that one would be a Christian who has read scripture and think it wasn’t. Either of our views could come from the Church of England as far as most people are concerned

This is part, I think, of why some people turn to the Catholic church in these difficult times - even though the Church of England is a wonderful thing, almost nobody understands it any more. That along with all this qualification and uncertainty where not even the bible is accepted by people claiming to be from it.

To paraphrase a wise man - In much better times, the Church of England was something people took part in and dedicated a great deal of time and thought to.

Then in more recent but still better times, the Church of England was not something people wanted to go to, it was something they wanted to know was* there*. Like the arts council - as long as it was there you could feel that you belonged to a civilised country and all was well with the world.

In the now, we live in a world of moral relativism and vague mysticism, and where Christians feel they have any need for a church at all, it would not be surprising if some of them look for a sense of strength, unity, and at least some sense of integrity against a world where every moral issue is turned into a giant grey area and nothing is particularly good or particularly bad except at the very extreme ends of the spectrum - and even those get reversed.

The current Church of England does not stand against this phenomenon, it merely mirrors it.

As evidenced by the way that you can genuinely hold to a thing which flies in the face of the law and scripture, and so many in the Church of England would be diametrically opposed in favour of the explicit instructions we have been given, and the effect to an outsider would be dissonance.

When every moral statement on must be qualified in some way, this does not offer certainty.

This is not nasty criticism, I have love for the Church of England. It has real problems with nobody understanding it, and with moral relativism though.
 
@ TheKingdomOfGod
Thirdly that religion should not and has not been used to freeze everything in time, it is intended to evolve with the times. Fourthly my innate sense of morality. Fifthly my prayers and conversations with God.
the third point is very similar to how the T V and media/ radio freeze you in time, they always take you back to yesteryear along with fashion and the rest of it society throws at you…its not religion that does that it is relevant to today and for evermore…

the fourth point …if you can say same sex let alone the marriage is moral then im afraid you need to go back to Church and gt the understandings of what it teaches…

the fifth point. look at the last two lines in the lords prayer,that will tell you if God is answering you or it might be some thing else leading you astray…

all the very best…
 
Yes, but I could very well say you were wrong here. Indeed marriage is more than just love, it is a lifelong commitment and bond. That’s why I believe it should be open to same sex couples.
what you say still does not define the difference between the relationship I have with my wife and the relationship I have with my children. You still do not have a full understanding of marriage. If you did, you would understand why same sex unions are not marriage.
 
No, because we all have an innate sense of morality and would never do such a thing. Please don’t go down the road of bashing democracy.
Democracy is a wonderful thing but you can not call a finger an eye by popular vote. You can not say sodomy is no longer sodomy by popular vote or that a woman is a man.
 
Whereas, in all honesty from what I can tell it is in fact a sin, and it is almost inconceivable that one would be a Christian who has read scripture and think it wasn’t. Either of our views could come from the Church of England as far as most people are concerned

This is part, I think, of why some people turn to the Catholic church in these difficult times - even though the Church of England is a wonderful thing, almost nobody understands it any more. That along with all this qualification and uncertainty where not even the bible is accepted by people claiming to be from it.

SNIP

This is not nasty criticism, I have love for the Church of England. It has real problems with nobody understanding it, and with moral relativism though.
Thanks for your opinion.
 
@ TheKingdomOfGod
the third point is very similar to how the T V and media/ radio freeze you in time, they always take you back to yesteryear along with fashion and the rest of it society throws at you…its not religion that does that it is relevant to today and for evermore…

Indeed.

the fourth point …if you can say same sex let alone the marriage is moral then im afraid you need to go back to Church and gt the understandings of what it teaches…

I think I know what it says pretty well, but thanks anyway.

the fifth point. look at the last two lines in the lords prayer,that will tell you if God is answering you or it might be some thing else leading you astray…

Yeah, he’s answering me.

all the very best…

And the same to you too.
 
what you say still does not define the difference between the relationship I have with my wife and the relationship I have with my children. You still do not have a full understanding of marriage. If you did, you would understand why same sex unions are not marriage.
I understand what marriage is. I understand why it should be open to same sex couples.
 
Democracy is a wonderful thing but you can not call a finger an eye by popular vote. You can not say sodomy is no longer sodomy by popular vote or that a woman is a man.
This reminds me of Aristotle’s laws of non-contradiction. X cannot X and Y at the same time. As you said a finger cannot be a finger and an eye at the same time, a woman cannot be a woman and a man at the same time.

That is why homosexuality is not sodomy.
 
Yes, but I could very well say you were wrong here. Indeed marriage is more than just love, it is a lifelong commitment and bond. That’s why I believe it should be open to same sex couples.
Homosexual so called marriage cannot fulfill the purpose of marriage.
 
these are the words of someone throwing a tantrum. You want what you want but have no reason for it.
I’m not sure how agreeing to disagree can be classed as throwing a tantrum. What do you mean by I have no reason for it? You will see my argument summarised further up this page.
 
Because if I disagree with something I know that if I stand up, voice a different opinion and engage in healthy debate God would be pleased. If I just conformed to the current status and went along with it, even though I was betraying my heart and every instinct in my body God would be disappointed.

It seems that I won’t be convincing anyone on this forum that homosexuality is not a sin, and you’re never going to convince me it is, so the best option seems to be to agree to disagree.
The real question is - Why have you ignored what God has to say about it?
 
Homosexual so called marriage cannot fulfill the purpose of marriage.
Which you believe is to have children. By the same token infertile straight couples have no purpose in marrying? Should we ban infertile straight couples from marrying?
 
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