‘Catholic,’ ‘Christian’ gay projects funded by homosexualist billionaire

[InSearchofGrace]

Do you honestly think homosexuals are gonna donate to anti-gay Christians? I don’t see anything wrong with LGBT donations to Christian denominations.

I only did that so I could fit in here ok. I took it down. I was only baptized Catholic and that’s about it.

I’m only here to have conversations with my Christian brothers and sisters. It’s only some people around here that don’t act every Christian like towards my views. Excuse me for having an opinion.

Nothing wrong with donating to one’s pet or favorite causes. Not the first time you miss the point.

Would you go to a game and pick a seat on the side of the team you are rooting against? And be booing or cheering in discord, in opposite, of the boos and cheers of fans directly around you? This is a Catholic site, in case you are forgetting.

Did you get the deception of Arcus, which funded the poll to give a false report on Catholic view on same-sex marriage AND to dissident Catholic groups to misrepresent Catholic position on homosexuality? Further, that Arcus funnels money to your denomination?
,

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Those homosexual billionaires, I’ll tell ya!..

Glad you’re back, gurney!

 

[PatrickSebast]

Thus, Time Magazine, Salon.com, and CNA are merely carrying water for these “conspiracy theorists” as well?

Yes, lifesitenews is, in general, poor journalism, and too often “journalism” should be surrounded by quotation marks. This has been noted by many CAF forum users, including, I believe, some clergy, who regret that the site compromises credibility and thus damages the very Life issues it promotes.

Nevertheless, given that there are corroborating sources to some of the dynamics reported in this particular thread story, why do you dismiss out of hand the possibility that there are powerful gays who are manipulating the language of “ministry” to oppose the values that your Church stands for? And if you do agree that that’s a possibility, why would you, a Catholic, not be concerned about that level of aggression, and the deceptive means employed?

I don’t dismiss that their are powerful gays attempting to sway the opinions of the religious majority to their support. I dismiss the claims that they are being purposely manipulative or deceptive about it. The information about what their organization does and their goals are all openly available to the public, they aren’t at all shy about their actions. And they haven’t formed any religious ministries on their own, but simply offered financial support to ones that already exist. Arcus has only been around for a few years, New Ways Ministries has been around for 33. If Arcus had formed some new group, labeled it as Catholic and had it twist or spread false teaching to Catholic then I would see where the vilification of the institution was coming from. As it is all that has factually shown is that Stryker is willing to give small portions of his money to religious group that support his agenda. If you want a real villain for this story the problem begins and ends with organizations like New Ways Ministries. Striker and Arcus are just vague associations who happen to have a lot of money, and as far as I can see Tim Gill shouldn’t have been mentioned. That is why I say it reeks of conspiracy, it is being built into a long line of underhanded deals orchestrated by an evil (gay) mastermind when in reality everything and everybody involved seems to be clear as day about their intentions.

Sure it is possible Tim Gill strategically directed a very small portion (.4% for the particular year) of the grant money from a foundation he has no proven involvement in to be taken by an institution that has been privately run for the last 33 years. It is also possible Gill then personally directed its actions, in such a way that they seemed to resemble the organizations normal actions, so that he could undermine the authority of the leadership of Church.

Or it could be that NWM applied for a grant on the Arcus site, and that someone at Arcus read the application and passed it up the chain of command until it was approved, then NWM continued to do what they have been doing for years but with a 20% increase in funding.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Thanks, Search. How are you doing?

Glad you’re back, gurney!

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Thanks, Search. How are you doing?

Very well, gurney. Delighted to see in you this thread! Interested to know your take on the contradicting views as expressed on the subject. Only if you care to.

Blessings.
,

 

[InSearchofGrace]

You directed your post to Elizabeth, but let me reply to it and pose a few questions for you.

…

I dismiss the claims that they are being purposely manipulative or deceptive about it.

Are you sure about this? Have you noted that Jon Stryker and Tim Gill have been identified as two of the five powerful homosexuals, referred to as the gay Super Friends, also dubbed as the Cabinet or the Gay Mafia that postured to redefine liberal politics before the November 2008 elections? Did it not bother you, as a Catholic, that they aggressively participated in the campaign for pro-gay cause candidates, and against those against same-sex marriage? See Gay Mafia Redefining Liberal Politics. And they continue with said efforts.

If you want a real villain for this story the problem begins and ends with organizations like New Ways Ministries. Striker and Arcus are just vague associations who happen to have a lot of money …

As for more recent news, the subject of this thread, certainly New Ways Ministry is not without stain in this matter. The OP’s choice of news (lifesitenews) could have been one with better journalistic reputation, but have you read the corroborating C N A article about the Church’s disassociation of NWM back in 1984, to which I referred in Post 13? And that on the Arcus Foundation website itself, it announced its significant donation to NWM?

NWM is one among a list of dissident Catholic groups that Arcus picked as a recipient of its generosity to foster further dissension and confusion in the faithful on a core Catholic doctrine. Unless you are a supporter of a dissenting splinter group that passes itself as Catholic still (see Post 14 for the list), it would be odd that you would be supporting or standing behind the missions of Jon Stryker and Tim Gill thru their respective foundations. In check of their foundation sites, it is clear that their agenda is to promote the recognition of homosexual relationships including marriage equality and family recognition including foster care and all varieties of adoption method for LGBT parented children.

Do you think then that the convergence of Arcus and NWM was just chance, and is therefore an incidental and ‘vague’ or benign association?

Would it bother you, that, David Bohnett, another gay Super Friend, has vowed to combat the Catholic Church head on because of its position on homosexual behavior and homosexual ‘marriage’ with the use of his enormous wealth? Read this C N A article, titled Wealthy homosexual activist advises ‘active measures’ against religious opponents.

Nobody in this forum is calling for the demonization of homosexuals or to believe exaggerated stories. You will note that I cited C N A on the NWM controversy and on Mr. Bohnett, and an article from Time Magazine, which is not exactly a conservative news magazine.

Catholics are called to love our homosexual brothers and sisters, BUT not to be enablers, apologists, or facilitators for the legalization of gay ‘marriage.’ And as it relates to the OP, Catholics are not called to excuse powerful and influential homosexuals in using dissident Catholic organizations such as NWM as a way to capitalize on a wedge into the heart or core of a Catholic teaching.

Where do you stand, Patrick?
,

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I never thought the day would come that the Gay Super Friends would come along! I will resist the extremely tempting moment here to make one heck of a joke!

You directed your post to Elizabeth, but let me reply to it and pose a few questions for you.

I dismiss the claims that they are being purposely manipulative or deceptive about it.

Are you sure about this? Have you noted that Jon Stryker and Tim Gill have been identified as two of the five powerful homosexuals, referred to as the gay Super Friends, also dubbed as the Cabinet or the Gay Mafia that postured to redefine liberal politics before the November 2008 elections? Did it not bother you, as a Catholic, that they aggressively participated in the campaign for pro-gay cause candidates, and against those against same-sex marriage? See Gay Mafia Redefining Liberal Politics. And they continue with said efforts.

If you want a real villain for this story the problem begins and ends with organizations like New Ways Ministries. Striker and Arcus are just vague associations who happen to have a lot of money …

As for more recent news, the subject of this thread, certainly New Ways Ministry is not without stain in this matter. The OP’s choice of news (lifesitenews) could have been one with better journalistic reputation, but have you read the corroborating C N A article about the Church’s disassociation of NWM back in 1984, to which I referred in Post 13? And that on the Arcus Foundation website itself, it announced its significant donation to NWM?

NWM is one among a list of dissident Catholic groups that Arcus picked as a recipient of its generosity to foster further dissension and confusion in the faithful on a core Catholic doctrine. Unless you are a supporter of a dissenting splinter group that passes itself as Catholic still (see Post 14 for the list), it would be odd that you would be supporting or standing behind the missions of Jon Stryker and Tim Gill thru their respective foundations. In check of their foundation sites, it is clear that their agenda is to promote the recognition of homosexual relationships including marriage equality and family recognition including foster care and all varieties of adoption method for LGBT parented children.

Do you think then that the convergence of Arcus and NWM was just chance, and is therefore an incidental and ‘vague’ or benign association?

Would it bother you, that, David Bohnett, another gay Super Friend, has vowed to combat the Catholic Church head on because of its position on homosexual behavior and homosexual ‘marriage’ with the use of his enormous wealth? Read this C N A article, titled Wealthy homosexual activist advises ‘active measures’ against religious opponents.

Nobody in this forum is calling for the demonization of homosexuals or to believe exaggerated stories. You will note that I cited C N A on the NWM controversy and on Mr. Bohnett, and an article from Time Magazine, which is not exactly a conservative news magazine.

Catholics are called to love our homosexual brothers and sisters, BUT not to be enablers, apologists, or facilitators for the legalization of gay ‘marriage.’ And as it relates to the OP, Catholics are not called to excuse powerful and influential homosexuals in using dissident Catholic organizations such as NWM as a way to capitalize on a wedge into the heart or core of a Catholic teaching.

Where do you stand, Patrick?
,

 

[InSearchofGrace]

I never thought the day would come that the Gay Super Friends would come along! I will resist the extremely tempting moment here to make one heck of a joke!

Aw … It may be Lent, but am I supposed to miss out from hearing a good joke? There’s always the pm option, you know.

ISoG

 

[PatrickSebast]

You directed your post to Elizabeth, but let me reply to it and pose a few questions for you.

It wasn’t meant to be directed to anyone in particular, I just chose her post because it seemed to sum up what was being expressed in less words than others used, and I didn’t want to reply to multiple posts with the same material. Don’t want to clog up the thread with repetitive posts.

I will be omitting some of the text of your post to fit this post into the word limit.

Are you sure about this? Have you noted that Jon Stryker and Tim Gill have been identified as two of the five powerful homosexuals, referred to as the gay Super Friends, also dubbed as the Cabinet or the Gay Mafia that postured to redefine liberal politics before the November 2008 elections? Did it not bother you, as a Catholic, that they aggressively participated in the campaign for pro-gay cause candidates, and against those against same-sex marriage?

It doesn’t bother me that these men participated in pro-gay causes anymore than it bothers me that their are people of low or moderate incomes who participate in such causes. There are plenty of people who support gay rights causes, these men just happen to have a lot of money. It isn’t like there aren’t any rich people supporting the “pro-marriage” side.

As for more recent news, the subject of this thread, certainly New Ways Ministry is not without stain in this matter. The OP’s choice of news (lifesitenews) could have been one with better journalistic reputation, but have you read the corroborating … about the Church’s disassociation of NWM back in 1984, to which I referred in Post 13? And that on the… itself, it announced its significant donation to NWM?

NWM is one among a list of dissident Catholic groups that Arcus picked as a recipient of its generosity to foster further dissension and confusion in the faithful on a core Catholic doctrine. Unless you are a supporter of a dissenting splinter group that passes itself as Catholic…adoption method for LGBT parented children.

Do you think then that the convergence of Arcus and NWM was just chance, and is therefore an incidental and ‘vague’ or benign association?

My point is not that Catholics should support Stryker or Gill, but that they are doing something completely honest and are very open about it. There is not evidence of some secret sneaky underground gay movement, they are just giving money to causes they support, which is every individuals right as an American. The money given to NWM was a very small part of Arcus’ overall donations for that year (less than 1%) and the idea that Stryker has some plan to attack the Church, is just far out. If groups of dissenting Catholics didn’t already exist then there would have been no one to apply for funding, and Stryker’s money would have simply gone to some other gay rights cause. The association is benign because it is simply a case of NWM having a couple extra dollars that year, not Stryker or Arcus taking over. I doubt Stryker even knows/understands the nature of Church teachings and why they can’t be changed, he just gave the group funding because he is trying to get more support behind his cause and NWM was working towards that goal.

Would it bother you, that, David Bohnett, another gay Super Friend, has vowed to combat the Catholic Church head on because of its position on homosexual behavior and homosexual ‘marriage’ with the use of his enormous wealth? Read this C N A article, titled Wealthy homosexual activist advises ‘active measures’ against religious opponents.

No it would not bother me, because I don’t expect everyone to agree with or follow Church teachings, and it doesn’t surprise me that someone would want to combat the Church on a particular issue they disagreed with them on. The man is completely open about what he wants to do and why he wants to do it, and he is free to express his opinions and use his money to spread them. All that any of these articles have established is that there are gay people and gay supporters out there who use their money in attempts to gain support for their causes and contest those who oppose them. How is this any different than other political causes?

Where do you stand, Patrick?

I stand on the side that does its best to understand where its opponents are coming from and doesn’t treat them as enemies just for having a different view point. If someone says something negative about the Church I am more than willing to jump in and defend it through an open and honest discussion that treats everyone fairly. There is no need to depict any of these people as underhanded schemers and manipulators when they have been nothing but clear about their goals.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I stand on the side that does its best to understand where its opponents are coming from and doesn’t treat them as enemies just for having a different view point. If someone says something negative about the Church I am more than willing to jump in and defend it through an open and honest discussion that treats everyone fairly.

Patrick, this is not a conversation about people “saying negative things about the Church.” As Catholics we are in fact to have viewpoints about matters other than just what affects Church affairs. Our faith is to inform our viewpoints about all of the very matters – heavily financed or not, covertly or not – that affect society. Society is not separate from our faith, or frankly our faith means very little and is merely a private set of beliefs having no impact on lives beyond Church walls. We are supposed to care, and to take action and/or to uncover the truth, when we see anyone, let alone well-funded groups, let alone groups using the cover of offensively deceptive terms such as “ministry” to influence the country into accepting (an amoral) framework that as Catholics we are directed to oppose.

 

[PatrickSebast]

Patrick, this is not a conversation about people “saying negative things about the Church.” As Catholics we are in fact to have viewpoints about matters other than just what affects Church affairs. Our faith is to inform our viewpoints about all of the very matters – heavily financed or not, covertly or not – that affect society. Society is not separate from our faith, or frankly our faith means very little and is merely a private set of beliefs having no impact on lives beyond Church walls. We are supposed to care, and to take action and/or to uncover the truth, when we see anyone, let alone well-funded groups, let alone groups using the cover of offensively deceptive terms such as “ministry” to influence the country into accepting (an amoral) framework that as Catholics we are directed to oppose.

I am not trying to say that Catholics shouldn’t try to influence their society or its morality, and I find it depressing that somehow in a country filled with a vast majority of people claiming a Christian faith that we would somehow find a way to legally classify something that fits both the scientific and religious requirements to be considered an individual human life as not being human or deserving of protection. There is obviously a vast need for people to strongly support that such moralities be upheld. However you are still claiming that the group is being deceptive, yet offering little substance into how and truths are bing uncovered or how deception is being used. I stated that New Ways Ministry was a problem, and from what I understand they have used deceptive languages and methods in the past (though since neither Catholics nor christians have a monopoly on the term ministry that is not one). NWM should be something to be concerned about, but even that could be easily combatted by properly catechizing our Catholics.

Jon Stryker, Arcus, and Tim Gill however have not been shown to be doing anything deceptive and in fact could not be more clear about their goals, and that continues to be my problem with the article and the attitude towards them in this topic. They aren’t doing anything illegal and they don’t intend to harm anyone, from their perspective they are supporting their community and doing a good deed and centering our attacks on their actions will get us nowhere. Even if they were doing something suspicious or illegal it wouldn’t change the fact that the cause needs to be our main focus, not the men supporting it. It is not a Catholics goal to destroy or discredit a man, that is neither moral nor wise. It is not moral because it could serve to push their souls further away, it is not wise because their will always be men to replace them as long as the cause remains. Think of how irritating it is to deal with people who condemn the Church because of the actions of a few priests and try to understand that this is very similar to what is being done to these men, with the major difference being these men haven’t even been proven to have done anything but very legally, and very openly funded their cause.

If there are organizations in the Church that promote dissent then it is our responsibility to clean our own house. Not point fingers at anyone who gave them a hand.

In short there need not be some Catholic Legion of Doom to combat the Gay Superfriends and their Fabulous Hall of Justice.

 

[RobbyS]

Well if there is going to be an insistence that I read and consider the article as a serious meaningful work:

It reeks of conspiracy theory to me.

A rich gay man (who is not actually a billionaire as the article claims, but a multi-millionaire), knows and has financial ties (they worked together on a political project in 2006) to this other guy, who founded and in the president of a foundation that works towards the conservation of great apes and promotion of LGBT rights (what a weird combination), of the grant money that this foundation gave out in 2009 .6% of the money directed towards LGBT causes or .4% of its total grants given out for the year went to a 33 year old ministry who has never been shy about admitting its social support for homosexuals. Oh and over the past 3 years they have given $700,000 or roughly .7% of their outgoing grant money organizations or activities that had a connection to the Catholic church. This must mean they are purposely and systematically scheming to create a rift in the church. If they would just shut their traps, and close their wallets then Catholics wouldn’t have to listen to their beliefs being challenged so often and it would be easier to simply ignore the issue!

Oh and they also gave 6.5% of their total outgoing grants to general Christian organizations,
much of which went towards the construction and development of homosexual friendly protestant churches.

What happened: An organization run by a heterosexual billionaire gave grant money (that can be applied for by anyone on their website) to organizations that support their goals of seeing gays given more rights and decreasing negativity towards them. The organization is very open about its intention to fund pro-gay movements that already exist within religious organizations and has never been shy about it as can be seen in this 2008 document on their site.(arcusfoundation.org/images/uploads/downloads/Jon_Stryker_Chronicle_Philanthropy_Interview_2008.pdf)

What the article wants me to believe: Tim Gill (did we mention he is gay), who has his own foundation for gay rights that he funds personally, gave money to Jon Stryker, a richer man, in order to influence him to do what he was already doing as the president of and founder of an organization very similar to Gill’s. Stryker’s organization Arcus purposely distributes money in strategic ways so that it might create disputes within the Church and bring it into disunity. Catholics should find it deeply troubling that the gay marriage agenda isn’t just being funded by normal people, but by billionaires! When the part of the funding for movements comes rich people it means the movement and its supporters are artificial!

This just isn’t good journalism. It isn’t meant to bring up ideas and discussion it is meant to set everything in an “us v. them” light. No one with any sense is going to be truly surprised that within a billion member church there are groups supporting parts of the “gay agenda.” A responsible article would have examined the motivations of these groups and gotten their side of the story so that the faithful can understand what is going on their church, not simply tried to label our confused fellow Catholics as our enemy.

Is it not a matter of “them” versus “us”? Gays–I mean–homosexual activists, or persons who define their very identity in terms of their sexual behavior— in general are working to subvert the teachings of the Church. They very honestly believe they are right and we are wrong. We being the Catholic Church. Not all homosexuals feel this way, for there are many who are genuine believers. But there are those who do seek power in the Church as they have in the Episcopal and other Christian bodies. But at some level they must reject the proposition that homosexuality is objectively evil or accept the teachings of the church that their disability is a cross they have to bear.

Of course, in many ways, they are like the generality of Catholics who eject the teachings of the Church on contraception and even on divorce. For such teachings threaten their material well-being, or the good opinion of non-Catholics. They don’t want to be on the wrong side of opinion if that means they they will lives lives less comfortably than they want. They imagine in fact that they are in control of events, when if they look about they see that this is just an illusion. We think that life is simply a matter of calculation. That is the ultimate miscalculation.

 

[John21652]

I am not trying to say that Catholics shouldn’t try to influence their society or its morality, and I find it depressing that somehow in a country filled with a vast majority of people claiming a Christian faith that we would somehow find a way to legally classify something that fits both the scientific and religious requirements to be considered an individual human life as not being human or deserving of protection. There is obviously a vast need for people to strongly support that such moralities be upheld. However you are still claiming that the group is being deceptive, yet offering little substance into how and truths are bing uncovered or how deception is being used. I stated that New Ways Ministry was a problem, and from what I understand they have used deceptive languages and methods in the past (though since neither Catholics nor christians have a monopoly on the term ministry that is not one). NWM should be something to be concerned about, but even that could be easily combatted by properly catechizing our Catholics.

I for one am glad to read that someone is stating unequivocally that the Catholic Church should try to influence society’s morality. After all, morality is the glue that holds society together. In fact, considering the historical background of western societies and the Catholic Church side by side, they share so much moral common ground it behoves all members of society to recognise the shared morality and work to protect it. I would go further and suggest that all Christian denominations, if they are truely Christian, would share this sentiment.

Jon Stryker, Arcus, and Tim Gill however have not been shown to be doing anything deceptive and in fact could not be more clear about their goals, and that continues to be my problem with the article and the attitude towards them in this topic. They aren’t doing anything illegal and they don’t intend to harm anyone, from their perspective they are supporting their community and doing a good deed and centering our attacks on their actions will get us nowhere. Even if they were doing something suspicious or illegal it wouldn’t change the fact that the cause needs to be our main focus, not the men supporting it. It is not a Catholics goal to destroy or discredit a man, that is neither moral nor wise. It is not moral because it could serve to push their souls further away, it is not wise because their will always be men to replace them as long as the cause remains. Think of how irritating it is to deal with people who condemn the Church because of the actions of a few priests and try to understand that this is very similar to what is being done to these men, with the major difference being these men haven’t even been proven to have done anything but very legally, and very openly funded their cause.

From my reading of the available literature on this topic, I get the feeling that the persons concerned are not being truly honest. That money is being funelled to where it will work against the true Christian ethic. Funelled to where the average Christian follower wont question the motives of the sources of that money. That, to me is subversion. I agree that the cause needs to be argued against, but I also think the agents behind the agenda need exposing, so that more people will question the motives of those who supply and handle that money. Without the crtical questioning, the sheep will simply follow what ever the wolf preaches. I am also of the opinion that if, in the process, anyone is discredited, it will be because of their motives and actions being exposed. I have no problem with such an outcome. Dishonesty in any form needs to be exposed. Hitler was very up front about what he was attempting to achieve too. Trouble is, not enough Germans read Mein Kampf before they voted for him!

If there are organizations in the Church that promote dissent then it is our responsibility to clean our own house. Not point fingers at anyone who gave them a hand.

Agree. We should clean out our own house. I also think the ones who come in with dirty shoes on need to be exposed as carriers of a dirty message…

In short there need not be some Catholic Legion of Doom to combat the Gay Superfriends and their Fabulous Hall of Justice.

It’s a role for everyone in the Church.

 

[lynx]

You just don’t understand the workings of genius minds. Why just last Sunday I put money in my Church’s collection basket with the all too clever plan of not only helping it succeed, but being able to deduct the donation from my taxes! Sometimes I donate to cancer research too in hopes that I will have to witness less painful deaths from cancer and possibly promote a cure for anything I might acquire in the future. I know it is a little difficult to understand for some, but to the more clever members of society my plans are near flawless.

Inconceivable

 

[George_2007]

Well if there is going to be an insistence that I read and consider the article as a serious meaningful work:

Stryker’s organization Arcus purposely distributes money in strategic ways so that it might create disputes within the Church and bring it into disunity. Catholics should find it deeply troubling that the gay marriage agenda isn’t just being funded by normal people, but by billionaires! When the part of the funding for movements comes rich people it means the movement and its supporters are artificial!

Hmm, billionare radical homosexual activitsts who are strategically investing lots of money to create disunity in the Church? Yea, you’re right: Nothing to see here folks - move along…

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

In all fairness, Robby, not all Catholics who have or still do practice birth control do so out of fear of a loss of material wealth. I know many who have told me their reasoning and it’s far from $$$ often times. I think that’s an over-generalization. The same with divorce. While tons of them are frivolous, sometimes there is intense abuse. As a teacher, I’ve seen it and known several good Catholic moms have to get divorced and use the civil channels to keep a psychotic dad at bay, etc. We need to be careful here…

Also, I’m not sure I’d call homosexuality a “disability” so much as a challenge, a cross to bear, a temptation.

Is it not a matter of “them” versus “us”? Gays–I mean–homosexual activists, or persons who define their very identity in terms of their sexual behavior— in general are working to subvert the teachings of the Church. They very honestly believe they are right and we are wrong. We being the Catholic Church. Not all homosexuals feel this way, for there are many who are genuine believers. But there are those who do seek power in the Church as they have in the Episcopal and other Christian bodies. But at some level they must reject the proposition that homosexuality is objectively evil or accept the teachings of the church that their disability is a cross they have to bear.

Of course, in many ways, they are like the generality of Catholics who eject the teachings of the Church on contraception and even on divorce. For such teachings threaten their material well-being, or the good opinion of non-Catholics. They don’t want to be on the wrong side of opinion if that means they they will lives lives less comfortably than they want. They imagine in fact that they are in control of events, when if they look about they see that this is just an illusion. We think that life is simply a matter of calculation. That is the ultimate miscalculation.