‘I quote the Gospel, they call me a Communist’

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It’s everywhere in the bible that we must care for the poor. 9,500 children die of starvation each and every day, and people turn their backs. I’m with Pope Francis. It takes people of his character to bring daily atrocities to light.
 
The problem, I think, is honestly with the media. Pope Francis challenges both the left and the right to find the “true center,” which is Christ.
The problem is, liberal media has a tendency to spin everything in favor of themselves and ignore the parts they don’t like, and conservative media has a tendency to point fingers, blame and scapegoat. This combination makes Papa Francesco automatically comes off like a raving liberal, even though he’s not. He’s just an honest Christian sinner, like the rest of us.
 
OneSmallFlower said:
The problem, I think, is honestly with the media. Pope Francis challenges both the left and the right to find the “true center,” which is Christ.
The problem is, liberal media has a tendency to spin everything in favor of themselves and ignore the parts they don’t like, and conservative media has a tendency to point fingers, blame and scapegoat. This combination makes Papa Francesco automatically comes off like a raving liberal, even though he’s not. He’s just an honest Christian sinner, like the rest of us.
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Yeah well keep in mind that it was the ultra-conservative Rush Limbaugh that said what Pope Francis was preaching “pure Marxism.”

religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/02/rush-limbaugh-vs-the-pope/

Jim
 
When at the core of the system we don’t have men but money, when money becomes an idol, men and women become nothing more than instruments of a social system dominated by profound unbalances,” he said.

Francis said that the global need to find a solution for poverty is something that can no longer be put on hold, and that without a solution, the other problems of the world won’t be solved, either.
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The pope called for a more ethical economic system and more ethics in politics, saying that many of the world politicians who visit him at the Vatican are looking for ethical suggestions from him and other religious leaders.
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Amen. Let us pray that Christianity is not desecrated by materialism in the form of communism or excessive capitalism.
 
Whether capitalism, socialism, marxism, fascism, or the media is to blame, the fact is that 80%+ of the world considers themselves in poverty. I can make a case that given the proper figures at least 98% of the world’s population is poor. We can’t eliminate it (Christ said so) but can only alleviate it. Being defensive about one’s ideological position isn’t going to fix the problem.
 
As Christians, we are supposed to help those who are less fortunate than us, but this is supposed to be from our heart and out of our virtue and sense of charity. Conservatives believe in helping the needy through charitable contributions rather than by government coercion. Here’s why the left is wrong when they say that Jesus was a socialist:

"One of the multitude said to him, ‘Teacher, bid my brother divide the inheritance with me.’ But he said to him, ‘Man, who made me a judge or divider over you?’” - Luke 12:13-14

“Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” - 2 Corinthians 9:7

Pope Pius XI further emphasized the fundamental opposition between Communism and Christianity, and made it clear that no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism. The reason is that Socialism is founded on a doctrine of human society which is bounded by time and takes no account of any objective other than that of material well-being. Since, therefore, it proposes a form of social organization which aims solely at production, it places too severe a restraint on human liberty, at the same time flouting the true notion of social authority. - Pope St. John XXIII - On Socialism
 
Economic freedom brings increased prosperity to more people including the poor than any other system. So nations which want to help their poor need to work on increasing the economic freedom in their nations.
 
I think the government should use tax money to help the poor with the essentials of food, shelter, and clothing.

But the government shouldn’t be using taxpayer money on evils like abortions and calling this helping the poor.
 
livingwordunity said:
I think the government should use tax money to help the poor with the essentials of food, shelter, and clothing.

But the government shouldn’t be using taxpayer money on evils like abortions and calling this helping the poor.
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👍
 
I’d love to hear Pope Francis say, I quote Church teachings on abortion and homosexuality and they call me a Fascist.
 
Seamus_L said:
I’d love to hear Pope Francis say, I quote Church teachings on abortion and homosexuality and they call me a Fascist.
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The media doesn’t like to cover those comments. It doesn’t fit their narrative.
 
livingwordunity said:
As Christians, we are supposed to help those who are less fortunate than us, but this is supposed to be from our heart and out of our virtue and sense of charity. Conservatives believe in helping the needy through charitable contributions rather than by government coercion. Here’s why the left is wrong when they say that Jesus was a socialist:

"One of the multitude said to him, ‘Teacher, bid my brother divide the inheritance with me.’ But he said to him, ‘Man, who made me a judge or divider over you?’” - Luke 12:13-14

“Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” - 2 Corinthians 9:7

Pope Pius XI further emphasized the fundamental opposition between Communism and Christianity, and made it clear that no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism. The reason is that Socialism is founded on a doctrine of human society which is bounded by time and takes no account of any objective other than that of material well-being. Since, therefore, it proposes a form of social organization which aims solely at production, it places too severe a restraint on human liberty, at the same time flouting the true notion of social authority. - Pope St. John XXIII - On Socialism
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Oh, well, if you’re going to quote from Mater et Magistra, there are a few more relevant quotes:
Concerning the use of material goods, Our Predecessor declared that the right of every man to use these for his own sustenance is prior to every other economic right, even that of private property. The right to the private possession of material goods is admittedly a natural one; nevertheless, in the objective order established by God, the right to property cannot stand in the way of the axiomatic principle that “the goods which were created by God for all men should flow to all alike, according to the principles of justice and charity”
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In economically developed countries, relatively unimportant services, and services of doubtful value, frequently carry a disproportionately high rate of remuneration, while the diligent and profitable work of whole classes of honest, hard-working men gets scant reward. Their rate of pay is quite inadequate to meet the basic needs of life. It in no way corresponds to the contribution they make to the good of the community, to the profits of the company for which they work, and to the general national economy.
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We therefore consider it Our duty to reaffirm that the remuneration of work is not something that can be left to the laws of the marketplace; nor should it be a decision left to the will of the more powerful. It must be determined in accordance with justice and equity; which means that workers must be paid a wage which allows them to live a truly human life and to fulfill their family obligations in a worthy manner.
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Economic progress must be accompanied by a corresponding social progress, so that all classes of citizens can participate in the increased productivity. The utmost vigilance and effort is needed to ensure that social inequalities, so far from increasing, are reduced to a minimum.
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Experience suggests many ways in which the demands of justice can be satisfied. Not to mention other ways, it is especially desirable today that workers gradually come to share in the ownership of their company, by ways and in the manner that seem most suitable. For today, even more than in the time of Our Predecessor, “every effort must be made that at least in future a just share only of the fruits of production be permitted to accumulate in the hands of the wealthy, and that an ample sufficiency be supplied to the workers.”
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This, of course, is not to deny the lawfulness of State and public ownership of productive goods, especially those which “carry with them a power too great to be left to private individuals without injury to the community at large.”
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Systems of social insurance and social security can make a most effective contribution to the overall distribution of national income in accordance with the principles of justice and equity. They can therefore be instrumental in reducing imbalances between the different classes of citizens.
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livingwordunity said:
I think the government should use tax money to help the poor with the essentials of food, shelter, and clothing.

But the government shouldn’t be using taxpayer money on evils like abortions and calling this helping the poor.
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You left out healthcare? Matthew 25:31-46 specifies taking care of the following for the least of us: food, drink, sickness, incarceration and if they are strangers (foreigners)
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
Sounds like the Pope is channelling Dom Helder Camara!
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He was the bishop (from Brazil?) who said something like “when I feed the poor, they call me a saint, but when I ask why they’re poor, they call me a Communist,” right?

Wise words. How can one help the poor without understanding why they’re poor?
 
Pope calls for more market regulation, denies he is Marxist: paper

news.yahoo.com/pope-calls-more-market-regulation-denies-marxist-paper-173739566.html

< Pope Francis has called for more regulation of financial markets and rejected suggestions that his criticisms of unbridled capitalism smack of Marxism.

“Markets and financial speculation cannot enjoy absolute autonomy,” he said in an interview published in La Stampa newspaper on Sunday, calling for greater ethics in the economy and a better distribution of the earth’s resources.

“We cannot wait any longer to resolve the structural causes of poverty in order to cure our society of an illness that can only lead to new crises,” he said. >

Pope Says Concern for Poor Is Gospel, Not Communism

abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/pope-concern-poor-gospel-communism-28145888

< He cites church fathers dating to St. Ambrose and St. John Chrysostom as expressing the same concerns, and noted somewhat wryly that if he had said the same “some would accuse me of giving a Marxist homily.”

“As we can see, this concern for the poor is in the Gospel, it is within the tradition of the church, it is not an invention of communism and it must not be turned into some ideology, as has sometimes happened before in the course of history,” an apparent reference to the Latin American-inspired liberation theology. >
The problem is that the pope is calling for more government regulation of the economy,as if
governments were not already heavily regulating businesses and banks,and he naively thinks that more government involvement would lessen whatever injustices and exploitation that is being done. He does not seem to recognize that more government control over businesses and economies means less legitimate economic freedom for people in general,and more government corruption and cronyism and favoritism,and more government control over people’s lives and property. It doesn’t take a believer in capitalism to see that. He does not specify exactly what is unjust about the economy as a whole,and what economic practices of businesses cause people to suffer,and how exactly the supposed injustices can be remedied by the government without interfering with people’s legitimate economic freedoms. He speaks of the economy like it is a particular,unified entity,whereas in reality it consists of the numberless economic transactions of millions of people. And although he is honest in denying that he is influenced by marxism,he still goes from concern for the poor to advocating government control over the economy and businesses,just as communists and socialists do.

This debate over Church teaching on the government involvement in the economy is not going to go away by quoting passages from the bible and from Catholic theologians and denying that the pope or Church social doctrine is influenced by marxism or socialism. As long as Church leaders continue to conflate Catholic social justice or concern for the poor with government control,many people will be suspicious about their intentions and will say that they are marxists or socialists,and there will be division and arguments between Catholics over the proper role of government and the proper interpretation of Catholic social doctrine. There will never be a consensus among Catholics that the government should be regulating the economy and businesses to the extent that the pope and other Church leaders want it to be.
 
Inisfallen said:
Oh, well, if you’re going to quote from Mater et Magistra, there are a few more relevant quotes:
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Systems of social insurance and social security can make a most effective contribution to the overall distribution of national income in accordance with the principles of justice and equity. They can therefore be instrumental in reducing imbalances between the different classes of citizens.

👍 Thanks much for the reminder!
 
Inisfallen said:
He was the bishop (from Brazil?) who said something like “when I feed the poor, they call me a saint, but when I ask why they’re poor, they call me a Communist,” right?

Wise words. How can one help the poor without understanding why they’re poor?
Click to expand...
The bishop probably was influenced by marxism. When people speak of the root causes of poverty,they are usually speaking suggestively of the free market economy and businesses. But before marxism,the root causes of poverty were always known to be sloth,lack of industry and resourcefulness,ignorance and dissipation,because that is what people commonly observe.
 
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