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Jozefo
Guest
Why do you want to know?
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Tigg
Guest
**A strong faith = Knowledge of the faith and a strong Catholic identity! **
I am not trying to minimize the psychological damage upon the human person by sex abuse, but in no way was this mainly responsible for the decline of the Church today. I say this while admitting the polls may show otherwise because many Catholics actually believe this is the reason they have left.
Most devout Catholics - the ones committed to the spiritual way of life who are fed by the Sacraments and the Liturgy have enough sense to distinguish between the sinful human element of the Institution and the sustaining life-giving one of the Divine. These two characteristics comprise the Church. And those who were properly catechized (the knowledge part of the equation) fully understand that the sins of the priest do not invalidate the Mass or the grace flowing into the soul and in NO way can ever compromise the Source and Summit of the Faith, which is the Eucharist. A personal belief in the Real Presence cannot be diminished by the sin of another - no matter how heinous - in fact that very belief can become the source of the healing. If many left the Church because of the scandals, and the surveys seem to support this, I believe they lost their way by taking their eyes off the Divine or had a weakened faith to begin with. I agree with our churchmen, like Cardinal Burke who have contended that the weakened faith, in part, has come from bad Masses where the disobedient celebrants have done their own thing by adding or removing elements from the Mass when they were forbidden to do so and instead changed the focus of the Mass to their very own preference. It has also come from bad homilies where politics have been preached instead of the gospel. It has come from a lack of emphasis on the sacrament of Confession and the fact that many parishes today only emphasize the social element and community instead of worship of the transcendent. No wonder many Catholics feel it no longer a serious obligation to attend Sunday Mass. It has come from the fact that families no longer pray together in the home and the reason why school age children do not even know basic Catholic prayers. There are many reasons why today’s Catholic, once unique in faith and spirituality, cannot be distinguished from the non-believer or even the Protestant who rails against Catholic theology.
I am not trying to minimize the psychological damage upon the human person by sex abuse, but in no way was this mainly responsible for the decline of the Church today. I say this while admitting the polls may show otherwise because many Catholics actually believe this is the reason they have left.
Most devout Catholics - the ones committed to the spiritual way of life who are fed by the Sacraments and the Liturgy have enough sense to distinguish between the sinful human element of the Institution and the sustaining life-giving one of the Divine. These two characteristics comprise the Church. And those who were properly catechized (the knowledge part of the equation) fully understand that the sins of the priest do not invalidate the Mass or the grace flowing into the soul and in NO way can ever compromise the Source and Summit of the Faith, which is the Eucharist. A personal belief in the Real Presence cannot be diminished by the sin of another - no matter how heinous - in fact that very belief can become the source of the healing. If many left the Church because of the scandals, and the surveys seem to support this, I believe they lost their way by taking their eyes off the Divine or had a weakened faith to begin with. I agree with our churchmen, like Cardinal Burke who have contended that the weakened faith, in part, has come from bad Masses where the disobedient celebrants have done their own thing by adding or removing elements from the Mass when they were forbidden to do so and instead changed the focus of the Mass to their very own preference. It has also come from bad homilies where politics have been preached instead of the gospel. It has come from a lack of emphasis on the sacrament of Confession and the fact that many parishes today only emphasize the social element and community instead of worship of the transcendent. No wonder many Catholics feel it no longer a serious obligation to attend Sunday Mass. It has come from the fact that families no longer pray together in the home and the reason why school age children do not even know basic Catholic prayers. There are many reasons why today’s Catholic, once unique in faith and spirituality, cannot be distinguished from the non-believer or even the Protestant who rails against Catholic theology.
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CarolNoel
Guest
I see lots of spiritual laziness. Too much effort to go to church or confession. Too much effort to continue learning about our faith. Too much effort to get to confession. Too tired to pray. Too much effort to teach our kids. The list goes on.
I see this with members of my family. As for me. I try my very best to be a 100% Catholic.
I see this with members of my family. As for me. I try my very best to be a 100% Catholic.
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adrgallardo
Guest
I think it’s due to the increasing number of ‘lax’ novis ordo mass being held mixed with parent not teaching their children the fundamentals.
I’m not sure about the rest of America, but in Miami Florida the majority of the parishes around here are turning into ‘happy-clappy Halelulla’ celebrations. It truly down-plays the whole purpose of the most holy sacrafice of the mass. The novis or do was never meant to be like this…
I’m not sure about the rest of America, but in Miami Florida the majority of the parishes around here are turning into ‘happy-clappy Halelulla’ celebrations. It truly down-plays the whole purpose of the most holy sacrafice of the mass. The novis or do was never meant to be like this…
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Abundant
Guest
I too was bothered by the priest abuse scandal, but I wouldn’t leave the church because I believe it is the Church that Jesus Christ himself established. Because of that, the devil is more likely to spend more energy directing it’s leaders to sin and scandal.
That being said, no matter how much I like my priest and the elders of my church I still have a guarded feeling with them when it comes to my children. My husband refuses to send our kids to a Catholic camp, retreat or any other event where we ourselves are not present.
We are a devout family who attends mass weekly, confession monthly and we pray together as a family. We believe in God, and we love our Church and our Faith. However, the church is made of men (and women) and we will not let our faith make us blind.
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illinidiva
Guest
Unless you are personally attending these Masses, I don’t see how this is any of your business.
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Tigg
Guest
It is after all, the faith we’re talking about.
In other words, you recognize the potential for sin and are exercising the gift of discernment which comes from the Holy Spirit.
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scipio337
Guest
Well put! In short, left-leaning Catholics think they know better than the Church.
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gracepoole
Guest
Yes. And at the other end of the spectrum, we have hardcore “traditional” Catholics who are really sede. It’s a confusing world.
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illinidiva
Guest
Correct… There are lots of people at both ends of the spectrum who know what is best for the Church and have spent decades snapping at each other.
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irishpatrick
Guest
Hmmm…let’s see, the Catholic identity is weaker now, the vast majority of Catholics (across the west, including the USA) do not give a hoot about their faith–while at the same time the western culture is crumbling from the foundation up.
Gee, I wonder of those two things might be connected…
Gee, I wonder of those two things might be connected…
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Tigg
Guest
Your profile does not indicate if you are Catholic or not, but it appears you disagree with many church officials. Each Mass, as community worship, affects the entire people of God.
The Meaning of the Mass
youtube.com/watch?v=sr_57fD6Ado
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illinidiva
Guest
I’m Catholic. And a Mass you don’t attend, doesn’t affect you, so please stop whining about others business. One of the most annoying things I’ve seen on the Internet is certain blogs, some run by Catholic priests, complaining about liturgies that they didn’t attend.
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adrgallardo
Guest
I did. I had no other choice, but to stop attending these ‘lax’ masses and move to one that gave more reverence to the presence of God at the altar. I don’t understand how you got the impression that I didn’t personally attend these masses, but that’s how I know…
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Tigg
Guest
okay…
New poster that you are, we’re beginning to understand your POV since you also said this:
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illinidiva
Guest
So, you didn’t like the parish you were attending and found another one that fit your spiritual needs. Problem solved. Why do you want to demand that everyone fit into your neat little box?
As for why Catholic identity is declining… Think child sexual abuse scandals, major money laundering scandals, and dysfunctional governance. Mahoney and others managed to escape any consequences for their actions. Archbishop Myers is accused of mishandling abuser priests in both Newark and Peoria and he hasn’t had to resign. In fact, he was whining about being persecuted recently. Talk about insensitive to the victims. I think that putting in place tough consequences for bishops who cover up or mishandle abuse cases or cleaning up the Curia at more important than fiddling with the liturgy.
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GangGreen
Guest
To me a big part of the loss of Catholic identity is the loss of tradition in the Church. We’ve moved so far away from many of the traditional practices and devotions that many people have spent their whole lives without them.
I always feel like churches (at least where I live) cater most to the elderly rather than to the younger people. I see weekday Masses at 7am, 9am, and then that’s it. Where are the weeknight Masses for those who work throughout the day? I see recitations of the rosary during the morning, Novenas in the morning, Adoration during the afternoon. etc. etc. Younger people who are actually devoted Catholics just go to church one day a week because of how churches setup everything. This is part of losing that identity.
Let’s not also forget about the loss of many truly Catholic things like chant and Latin. Again, those are part of the Catholic identity that many people are not exposed to anymore.
There are so many of these Catholic aspects that people aren’t being exposed to anymore. All it takes is for someone to get hooked on even one of these things and it builds up more and more. It’s part of why we have them!
I always feel like churches (at least where I live) cater most to the elderly rather than to the younger people. I see weekday Masses at 7am, 9am, and then that’s it. Where are the weeknight Masses for those who work throughout the day? I see recitations of the rosary during the morning, Novenas in the morning, Adoration during the afternoon. etc. etc. Younger people who are actually devoted Catholics just go to church one day a week because of how churches setup everything. This is part of losing that identity.
Let’s not also forget about the loss of many truly Catholic things like chant and Latin. Again, those are part of the Catholic identity that many people are not exposed to anymore.
There are so many of these Catholic aspects that people aren’t being exposed to anymore. All it takes is for someone to get hooked on even one of these things and it builds up more and more. It’s part of why we have them!
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illinidiva
Guest
Many of those things don’t appeal to younger Catholics like me, outside a small subset. I went to a Catholic school and was exposed to the Rosary and Novenas, etc. I didn’t find them at all appealing. I found them boring and not spiritually fulfilling. I wasn’t involved in the Church for many years after I left school and a parish emphasizing Latin Masses, Rosaries, etc. would leave me running for the hills.
I think many lapsed younger Catholics appreciate the emphasis on the social justice teachings of the Church and would likely become more active if parishes got involved in the community and advertised their community service ministries. I also really admire certain saints. I read a great book called My Life with the Saints by James Martin which did a good job making saints relatable and putting it in the context of his journey to become a priest.
I think many lapsed younger Catholics appreciate the emphasis on the social justice teachings of the Church and would likely become more active if parishes got involved in the community and advertised their community service ministries. I also really admire certain saints. I read a great book called My Life with the Saints by James Martin which did a good job making saints relatable and putting it in the context of his journey to become a priest.
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kentuckyliz
Guest
I’m 48 and don’t see many people my age in the Catholic church. We were poorly catechized in the 70s (not catechized at all really) and the church didn’t offer anything different or better than the world. Disco beats burlap any day.
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Holly3278
Guest
That is incredibly sad but it doesn’t surprise me at all. To me, it seems like a lot of people here in the United States are practicing a form of heathenism. In other words, it seems more like a lot of people here are more interested in pleasing themselves rather than God and that is really sad. It also seems to have gotten worse over the years. But then again, that’s my opinion. I could be wrong. However, this article would seem to state that its true, at least as far as being Catholic goes.
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