‘The Church is not against birth control at all’: Cardinal Walter Kasper

[Pancras]

“Serious” is rather hard to define.

It all depends on what you mean by “birth control.” What if, in your conscience, birth control is like gun control: a politically correct agenda? Who’s to say you’re ‘wrong’?

Or, like the Pope says, “Who am I to judge?” What is “serious” to one is not so serious to another, seriously. So, when something is hard to define, well, then, just throw in the towel.

Next!
.

 

[Path_Finder]

Totally agree. LifeSite has long struck me as being the Joe McCarthy of the pro-life movement.

Perhaps critics can give examples of where LifeSiteNews is the “Joe McCarthy of the pro-life movement”. Without specific examples, I would dismiss these criticisms.

 

[Path_Finder]

Cardinal Kasper said nothing technically incorrect. We used to see this sort of quote all the time from priests, bishops and religious back in the bad old days of the 70’s through early 90’s. (I live in Milwaukee towards the end of that period, so I KNOW) Fr. Richard McBrien in his old syndicated columns was a master at it. Write things that were technically and defensibly true, but written in such a way that the average Joe frequently understood it in a manner totally at odds with catholic teaching.

Charity demands that we not speculate on the motivations of such frighteningly ambiguous statements and quotes, so that’s all I’ll say. And even the most tightly wound orthodox among us should admit that evangelization is rather more than simply condemning sin and demanding repentance. Mistakes get made sometimes in the balance between prioritizing the message of joy and hope that is Christ and being faithful to the truths that necessarily follow.

I agree, there is nothing wrong with this article.

If I disagree with an article, I will point out, underline what I don’t find acceptable.

 

[Path_Finder]

This topic got locked or deleted the last time it was up. Artificial Birth Control is always wrong, not Natural Family Planning. That’s not an opinion. It’s Church teaching.

Peace,
Ed

Correct, not just NFP, chastity, abstaining from sex to me would seem to be birth control.

 

[Path_Finder]

lifesitenews.

Why thank you. I guess the original poster forgot to post the link.

 

[Path_Finder]

Good idea. I can’t edit the Original post anymore, but here is a quick synopsis.

The Cardinal was responding to a question from a reporter, who asked, "whether married couples who already have “three children and live in poverty” should not be “allowed to use birth control to prevent more conception?”

Cardinal Kasper responded, “Well, the Church is not against birth control at all. … It’s about the methods of birth control. … I do not want to enter into this characteristic…how they have to do it. It’s their personal conscience and their personal responsibility.”

There were several other questions and comments on the page…I’m not sure how much I’m supposed to copy/paste here so I’ll just leave it at that I guess.

Thank you for posting this. There is nothing wrong with this article.

 

[VanSensei]

Cardinal Kasper said nothing technically incorrect. We used to see this sort of quote all the time from priests, bishops and religious back in the bad old days of the 70’s through early 90’s. (I live in Milwaukee towards the end of that period, so I KNOW) Fr. Richard McBrien in his old syndicated columns was a master at it. Write things that were technically and defensibly true, but written in such a way that the average Joe frequently understood it in a manner totally at odds with catholic teaching.

Charity demands that we not speculate on the motivations of such frighteningly ambiguous statements and quotes, so that’s all I’ll say. And even the most tightly wound orthodox among us should admit that evangelization is rather more than simply condemning sin and demanding repentance. Mistakes get made sometimes in the balance between prioritizing the message of joy and hope that is Christ and being faithful to the truths that necessarily follow.

“Cardinal” Kasper is wrong on all levels. Birth control is wrong on all levels, that’s an infallible truth. Either we accept that or we’re with the Church or we don’t and we’re not.

 

[Rin]

“Cardinal” Kasper is wrong on all levels. Birth control is wrong on all levels, that’s an infallible truth. Either we accept that or we’re with the Church or we don’t and we’re not.

I’ve never been a fan of Kasper, but effectively trying to discredit his status as Cardinal by putting it in quotation marks is no more Catholic than giving “plan B” pills to teenagers would be.

He is a Cardinal, a Prince of the Church, and he deserves our respect in that regard, even if we disagree with something he says. We are not free to “uncreate” cardinals on our own whim. Were he a formal heretic, he would be deposed; and since he hasn’t been, given the long time of his cardinalate, I can only conclude that his views are doctrinally valid, though not mainstream.

I also suspect the quotes on Lifesitenews (a site I’ve often noticed earlier has a variable sense of journalistic honesty, much like the “liberal media”) to be taken out of context, given the heavy clipping indicated by (…). Accusing him of contradicting infallible truth based on that alone is rash judgement. He may interpret the consequence of said truth differently than I do, but going from there to saying he contradicts said truth, is a huge, and probably fallacious, step.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Such things as Kasper says here are very concerning. I am not yet satisfied that Kasper’s views will rule the day, not that they are precisely the views of the Pope, but they certainly inspire a lot of anxiety.

I do feel strongly that the many conflicting comments and cryptic statements coming out of the Vatican are harmful to the laity. Even though many of them are doctrinal, they are wildly misinterpreted. For example, the statement that Christ’s death redeemed all of mankind. True, yes, but to my mind deliberately provocative. Maybe it is the Pontiff’s wish to provoke, but I wish the Vatican would have some of its mercy on us!

How are these statements harmful? If the Vatican is modifying pastoral arrangements with certain individuals, how does that harm people who have no relationship to those certain individuals? There is no slippery slope here: the Eastern Orthodox Church essentially agrees with the quotation you mentioned from Kaspar, and they have not “caved” on sexual moral teachings. Moreover, the sort of thing Kaspar is mentioning (about remarriage) was also hinted at by Pope Benedict, and I don’t recall people up in arms about *his *orthodoxy.

 

[Corki]

“Cardinal” Kasper is wrong on all levels. Birth control is wrong on all levels, that’s an infallible truth. Either we accept that or we’re with the Church or we don’t and we’re not.

You are confusing “birth control” with contraception. The latter is always wrong. The former is often a responsibility. The very subtitle of Humnae Vitae is “On the regulating of birth”.

With regard to physical, economic, psychological and social conditions, responsible parenthood is exercised by those who prudently and generously decide to have more children, and by those who, for serious reasons and with due respect to moral precepts, decide not to have additional children for either a certain or an indefinite period of time.

 

[Path_Finder]

You are confusing “birth control” with contraception.

The latter is always wrong. The former is often a responsibility. The very subtitle of Humnae Vitae is “On the regulating of birth”.

Good point, all the critics of this article have been showed up.

 

[manualman]

I agree, there is nothing wrong with this article.

If you agree with my post, then you can’t say there is nothing wrong with the article. What’s wrong with the Cardinal’s statement is not the technical content, properly understood, but the predictable impression that it will have on the casual lay reader. There is PLENTY wrong with that latter part.

It’s long been recognized that it is possible to tell lies while saying nothing but true statements. Lawyers do it all the time. I can’t say if the Cardinal is intentionally doing that and I’d sure hope not. But unintentional ambiguity can be as harmful as purposeful deception.

 

[Path_Finder]

If you agree with my post, then you can’t say there is nothing wrong with the article. What’s wrong with the Cardinal’s statement is not the technical content, properly understood, but the predictable impression that it will have on the casual lay reader. There is PLENTY wrong with that latter part.

It’s long been recognized that it is possible to tell lies while saying nothing but true statements. Lawyers do it all the time. I can’t say if the Cardinal is intentionally doing that and I’d sure hope not. But unintentional ambiguity can be as harmful as purposeful deception.

What do you propose?? That Lifesitenews not even publish the article? They are just reporting on what transpired, the Cardinal’s words. I find nothing wrong with the article.

If a certain part of the article is misleading, let’s read it!

 

[Prodigal_Son]

What do you propose?? That Lifesitenews not even publish the article? They are just reporting on what transpired, the Cardinal’s words. I find nothing wrong with the article.

If a certain part of the article is misleading, let’s read it!

In my experience, the mere fact that lifesitenews publishes something is reason to disbelieve it. Their journalistic standards are AWFUL.

 

[Path_Finder]

In my experience, the mere fact that lifesitenews publishes something is reason to disbelieve it. Their journalistic standards are AWFUL.

What are we? 3 pages in and nothing wrong is shown with the article yet?

Thank you for showing YOU AND OTHER CRITICS CAN SHOW NOTHING WRONG WITH THE ARTICLE! Your analysis is BAD.

 

[chefmomster2]

How are these statements harmful? If the Vatican is modifying pastoral arrangements with certain individuals, how does that harm people who have no relationship to those certain individuals? There is no slippery slope here: the Eastern Orthodox Church essentially agrees with the quotation you mentioned from Kaspar, and they have not “caved” on sexual moral teachings. Moreover, the sort of thing Kaspar is mentioning (about remarriage) was also hinted at by Pope Benedict, and I don’t recall people up in arms about *his *orthodoxy.

Actually, I agree with you! I am referring to the disquiet such statements are causing many persons in the Church. I also don’t suggest that our Church will “cave”. I am merely stating that such statements, despite their adherence to doctrine, when added to the anxiety concerning the eventual outcome of the coming synod, causes a lot of confusion and misunderstanding.

Again, we have NO way of knowing that the Church would do anything opposed to doctrine. I also believe that we have a positive duty to have faith in the Pope and Magisterium.

 

[Path_Finder]

Since it is off-topic to be critical of the news source, I will post one more thing on this from none other than USA Today:

Unfortunately, their comments came as the beleaguered cable news pioneer was in the midst of making yet another high-profile mistake: reporting that an arrest had been made in the Boston Marathon bombing.

CNN had company: the Associated Press, Fox and the Boston Herald, among others, also went with the rapidly discredited story.

Once again, four months after the error-riddled reporting on the massacre at Sandy Hill Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., there was a major media malfunction in the coverage of a mega-story.

usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/rieder/2013/04/18/media-boston-fiasco/2093493/

Hence, errors in news reporting is part of the risk in that business. However, CNN largely misreported on a major news story, the Boston Marathon Bombing. And though many can question any CNN news story that comes out, I doubt if we would see the same reaction as seems to happen in some other cases. At the least, this would seem to show a lack of consistency by detractors.

 

[Veridical16]

You are confusing “birth control” with contraception. The latter is always wrong. The former is often a responsibility. The very subtitle of Humnae Vitae is “On the regulating of birth”.

You DO KNOW THAT periods of CHASTITY between Husband and Wife is NOT the same as BIRTH CONTROL?

And using NFP with a CONTRACEPTIVE mentality is not the same thing as being condoned by the quote you cited in Humanae Vitae.

Cardinal Kasper is wrong because the context of his quotes go hand in hand with other heterodox statements in the interview.

The Church teaches to always be OPEN to LIFE, even with serious decisions to practice NFP

 

[Mark121359]

A lot of people here have commented about how Cardinal Kasper’s views are cause for great concern. I’m in total agreement. Cardinal Raymond Burke was more than concerned as well with Kasper’s views on divorced and remarried Catholics. I sense that he (Kasper) is “leaning left” on various issues. Watch from the 9:41 mark; youtube.com/watch?v=hQTiup-Eeaw

Peace, Mark

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Actually, I agree with you! I am referring to the disquiet such statements are causing many persons in the Church. I also don’t suggest that our Church will “cave”. I am merely stating that such statements, despite their adherence to doctrine, when added to the anxiety concerning the eventual outcome of the coming synod, causes a lot of confusion and misunderstanding.

Again, we have NO way of knowing that the Church would do anything opposed to doctrine. I also believe that we have a positive duty to have faith in the Pope and Magisterium.

Glad that we’re on the same page then. Now I can just enjoy your awesome username.