‘Witch hunts’ rooted in putting laws above God’s truth, pope says

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JimR-OCDS said:
We can’t be assured God did not forgive them, this would be saying we know the mind of God, which we do not. Even the Church will not say who ends up in hell or not.

In all, whomever is saved, it is through Jesus Christ, even those he called snakes and brood of vipers.

When Jesus said, “Father forgive them, for the know not what they do,” he wasn’t speaking about those who had just tortured him and those at the foot of the cross mocking him, but for humanity.

Jim
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Of course, we can be assured that they were not forgiven, Jesus Himself stated that they were condemned to Hell and that they could not escape that sentence, i.e., people who are forgiven by God do NOT END UP IN HELL, but more importantly people who repent and ask for forgiveness will NOT BE ABANDONED BY GOD.

p.s. Obviously, the statement that Jesus made on the cross was for all humanity, however, not everyone accepts to be forgiven and people do actually go to Hell. The Pharisees that were condemned to Hell by JESUS fall into this category, i.e., they did not accept to be forgiven and like Satan chose themselves over God.
 
josie_L said:
Of course, we can be assured that they were not forgiven, Jesus Himself stated that they were condemned to Hell and that they could not escape that sentence, i.e., people who are forgiven by God do NOT END UP IN HELL, but more importantly people who repent and ask for forgiveness will NOT BE ABANDONED BY GOD.

p.s. Obviously, the statement that Jesus made on the cross was for all humanity, however, not everyone accepts to be forgiven and people do actually go to Hell. The Pharisees that were condemned to Hell by JESUS fall into this category, i.e., they did not accept to be forgiven and like Satan chose themselves over God.
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Jesus didn’t condemn them to hell.

He asked them to ask the question;
You serpents, you brood of vipers, how can you flee from the judgment of Gehenna?
Matthew 23:33
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Jesus had not yet gone to the cross as of yet.

To repent means to have a change of heart.

We don’t know if the Pharisees had a change of hear tor not, after Jesus death and resurrection, and that’s for God to judge.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Jesus didn’t condemn them to hell.

He asked them to ask the question;

Jesus had not yet gone to the cross as of yet.

To repent means to have a change of heart.

We don’t know if the Pharisees had a change of hear tor not, after Jesus death and resurrection, and that’s for God to judge.

Jim
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And yet Jesus Christ instituted the sacrament of Communion prior to dying on the Cross, i.e., He was truly present in the bread and wine offered to the Apostles during the Last Supper.

Jesus’s question is rhetorical and indicative of the hubris of the Pharisees (collectively as a group) that they could not avoid Hell for what they had done and what they were planning to do, i.e., even if they thought to salvage their earthly power by killing Jesus, nothing would stop them from being judged/condemned by God upon their death.

The Gospels are littered with Jesus’s comments condemning the Pharisees:

Matthew 3:7

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Matthew 12:34

You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.

Matthew 23:13

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

Matthew 23:15

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

Your interpretation of that scripture does not make sense in light of the N.T. as a whole.
 
josie_L said:
And yet Jesus Christ instituted the sacrament of Communion prior to dying on the Cross, i.e., He was truly present in the bread and wine offered to the Apostles during the Last Supper.

Jesus’s question is rhetorical and indicative of the hubris of the Pharisees (collectively as a group) that they could not avoid Hell for what they had done and what they were planning to do, i.e., even if they thought to salvage their earthly power by killing Jesus, nothing would stop them from being judged/condemned by God upon their death.

The Gospels are littered with Jesus’s comments condemning the Pharisees:

Matthew 3:7

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Matthew 12:34

You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.

Matthew 23:13

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

Matthew 23:15

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

Your interpretation of that scripture does not make sense in light of the N.T. as a whole.
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You seemed to enjoy the damnation of the Pharisees rather than them having any chance at redemption, for you’re focused more on eternal damnation rather than salvation.

This is pretty much what Pope Francis is speaking against and the context of the article.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
You seemed to enjoy the damnation of the Pharisees rather than them having any chance at redemption, for you’re focused more on eternal damnation rather than salvation.

This is pretty much what Pope Francis is speaking against and the context of the article.

Jim
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Pope Francis has his own interpretation of Easter and forgiveness and sin. He may be the Pope but there is something misguided in his message. I do not mean to criticize, but offer my humble opinion, and I pray God forgives me if I am wrong.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
You seemed to enjoy the damnation of the Pharisees rather than them having any chance at redemption, for you’re focused more on eternal damnation rather than salvation.

This is pretty much what Pope Francis is speaking against and the context of the article.

Jim
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Oh, the irony of being thought a Pharisee, i.e., putting laws above God’s truth!!! :cool:
 
JosieN said:
Pope Francis has his own interpretation of Easter and forgiveness and sin. He may be the Pope but there is something misguided in his message. I do not mean to criticize, but offer my humble opinion, and I pray God forgives me if I am wrong.
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Easter,forgiveness and sin is not the same as saying cooking, flower growing and sewing.
And before saying that a Pope has the basics wrong…you know,we can just keep …growing flowers and let the Pope be the Pope.
It is incomprehensible ,miles beyond my understanding that a Pope through whom other generations learnt to love and follow previous Popes,well…is " misguided".
As if he had appeared from a cabbage out of the blue and out of nowhere. So the College of cardinals chose twice a man who is " misguided " about “Easter,forgiveness and sin.”
Give me a break…
That blows my mind. It does.
 
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