“Big Love” / "The Da Vinci Code" prequel controversy

[LDSGuy]

I have seen that before, and it still gives me chills everytime I come across that page. It seems so cold.

Many of us that have attended a temple have felt the Holy Spirit and have known that the Restored Gospel is true. The ordinances performed there provide great comfort for many, and help us to learn more about ourselves, Jesus Christ, and his Gospel. I have truly felt God’s presence while praying quietly in the Celestial Room of the temple. Many current LDS will agree with those experiences.

 

[slyboots]

Its a tv show. They are not likely to reveal anything really secret. Heck how would we know if they did?

I mean no offence by this. I just figured that the LDS folks will know if it’s fake. And the rest of us surely realize this is a fictional show. I don’t know about anyone else but I am not watching it to learn about the Church of Latter Day Saints. I amwatching to see if Nikki cheats, Margene freaks out about Ben and Barb finally tells the lot of them to go fly a kite.

 

[PaulDupre]

I have never known much about LDS, but it seems as if gnosticism is especially alive and well there. I guess it makes some people very happy to believe that they have knowledge no one (or very few anyway) has, and to also believe that they are more “worthy” than others. Knowing the sinner I am, I just glad that the Catholic Church teaches that we all must repent, and that she give us this beautiful season of Lent to focus on repentence and the cross!

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

I have never known much about LDS, but it seems as if gnosticism is especially alive and well there. I guess it makes some people very happy to believe that they have knowledge no one (or very few anyway) has, and to also believe that they are more “worthy” than others. Knowing the sinner I am, I just glad that the Catholic Church teaches that we all must repent, and that she give us this beautiful season of Lent to focus on repentence and the cross!

I think that is the most wonderful feeling also. I don’t think any temple ceremony could compare to our adoration and sacrifices we do to show our love for Christ!

 

[PaulDupre]

I understand. Thank you LDSGuy.

I will read both and draw my conclusion, (For what ever my conclusion is worth )

God bless

As a former Mormon who went through the endowment many times, I can tell you that the site is spot-on. That is exactly, word-for-word, what goes on in the endowment. How can merely reporting what they say and do be considered anti-Mormon?

 

[LDSGuy]

I think that is the most wonderful feeling also. I don’t think any temple ceremony could compare to our adoration and sacrifices we do to show our love for Christ!

Everything done in the temple is for and made possible by Jesus Christ. They are literally called Houses of the Lord as well.

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

Everything done in the temple is for and made possible by Jesus Christ. They are literally called Houses of the Lord as well.

That’s what my church is called too. The Members make up the beautifulness of it. After Katrina our churches were wrecked out, and a lot of people who had church in tents, felt God there more than in Church, so I think God is where his people are, rather it be a tent or a temple!

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I think the Catholic Church was also annoyed by the misrepresentation of their beliefs and the history of Christianity in the Da Vinci Code. I anticipate more misrepresentation in this episode of Big Love in relation to the portrayal of temple ordinances.

What people think depends very much on whose ox is goring what or whom ​

If a ceremony is private, there is a case for not publicising it as entertainment. How strong a case, - but there is a case. I’m not unduly fond of film sequences that show certain Catholic actions, such as consecrations during Mass; but the answer to that & similar misgivings is to point out that simulated actions are simulated, & not intended to be real-world religious acts; in the real world, they are & remain simulated, because their function in the real world is to be part of a dramatic presentation.

Isn’t Battlestar Galactica Mormon in inspiration ? If so, what if any is the general Mormon opinion about it ? Is Mormonism opposed to fictional tales, in the way some people are ? (Sorry to be so ignorant)

 

[PaulDupre]

I watched the Big Love episode tonight.

What they showed was:

1. a portion of the “True Order of Prayer”, a small part of the endowment ceremony. That was the part where they were raising their hands saying “O God, hear the words of my mouth”. In the pre-1990 version I went through, they said “Pay Lay Ale”, which they told us was the Adamic language for “O God, hear the words of my mouth”.
2. The last part of the endowment, the conversation with the Lord at the veil. They only showed the fourth of four signs and tokens learned during the ceremony and given to “the Lord” at the veil. The character in the show is then led through the veil into the “celestial room”.

The parts they showed (about 1 minute of a 45-minute ceremony) were completely accurate, and the depiction of the temple robes and aprons and the celestial room was spot-on. FWIW, I thought HBO depicted the temple very respectfully.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I watched the Big Love episode tonight.

What they showed was:

1. a portion of the “True Order of Prayer”, a small part of the endowment ceremony. That was the part where they were raising their hands saying “O God, hear the words of my mouth”. In the pre-1990 version I went through, they said “Pay Lay Ale”, which they told us was the Adamic language for “O God, hear the words of my mouth”.
2. The last part of the endowment, the conversation with the Lord at the veil. They only showed the fourth of four signs and tokens learned during the ceremony and given to “the Lord” at the veil. The character in the show is then led through the veil into the “celestial room”.

The parts they showed (about 1 minute of a 45-minute ceremony) were completely accurate, and the depiction of the temple robes and aprons and the celestial room was spot-on. FWIW, I thought HBO depicted the temple very respectfully.

I watched it too. I think it was very important to the character and story. Put in the context of something that is special to her, and something she is losing, very well done.

I agree it was respectful. I also understand from the mormon POV, that just showing this is seen as disrespectful. I don’t think it is reasonable to believe that they could keep the lid on their temple ceremony, forever. More like, wishful thinking.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I watched the Big Love episode tonight.

What they showed was:

1. a portion of the “True Order of Prayer”, a small part of the endowment ceremony. That was the part where they were raising their hands saying “O God, hear the words of my mouth”. In the pre-1990 version I went through, they said “Pay Lay Ale”, which they told us was the Adamic language for “O God, hear the words of my mouth”.
2. The last part of the endowment, the conversation with the Lord at the veil. They only showed the fourth of four signs and tokens learned during the ceremony and given to “the Lord” at the veil. The character in the show is then led through the veil into the “celestial room”.

The parts they showed (about 1 minute of a 45-minute ceremony) were completely accurate, and the depiction of the temple robes and aprons and the celestial room was spot-on. FWIW, I thought HBO depicted the temple very respectfully.

Paul,

Thanks for the update on the episode. Very interesting. How did they find out what goes on in these Temple ceremonies if they are supposed to be secret?

What would happen to a Mormon who told the secrets of this ceremony? What would be the recourse of the LDS Church?

God bless

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

I watched the Big Love episode tonight.

What they showed was:

1. a portion of the “True Order of Prayer”, a small part of the endowment ceremony. That was the part where they were raising their hands saying “O God, hear the words of my mouth”. In the pre-1990 version I went through, they said “Pay Lay Ale”, which they told us was the Adamic language for “O God, hear the words of my mouth”.
2. The last part of the endowment, the conversation with the Lord at the veil. They only showed the fourth of four signs and tokens learned during the ceremony and given to “the Lord” at the veil. The character in the show is then led through the veil into the “celestial room”.

The parts they showed (about 1 minute of a 45-minute ceremony) were completely accurate, and the depiction of the temple robes and aprons and the celestial room was spot-on. FWIW, I thought HBO depicted the temple very respectfully.

I also thought it was done respectfully! I have never been to one, but it didnl’t seem like it should be a secret at all. Why is it so secretive?

 

[PaulDupre]

Paul,

Thanks for the update on the episode. Very interesting. How did they find out what goes on in these Temple ceremonies if they are supposed to be secret?

The text of the endowment is all over the internet, posted mostly by former Mormons, as is the design of the temple clothing. HBO had an ex-Mormon technical advisor.

What would happen to a Mormon who told the secrets of this ceremony? What would be the recourse of the LDS Church?

God bless

There’s really nothing the LDS church could do at this point. Perhaps there would be disciplinary action from the church, such as disfellowshipment or excommunication, but I never heard of a case where an active Mormon revealed the secrets. In the old days under Brigham Young, you could get your throat slit and be disemboweled. In fact, the blood oaths in the older versions of the endowment implied exactly that.

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

The text of the endowment is all over the internet, posted mostly by former Mormons, as is the design of the temple clothing. HBO had an ex-Mormon technical advisor.

There’s really nothing the LDS church could do at this point. Perhaps there would be disciplinary action from the church, such as disfellowshipment or excommunication, but I never heard of a case where an active Mormon revealed the secrets. In the old days under Brigham Young, you could get your throat slit and be disemboweled. In fact, the blood oaths in the older versions of the endowment implied exactly that.

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

under Brigham Young, you could get your throat slit and be disemboweled. In fact, the blood oaths in the older versions of the endowment implied exactly that.

Do Mormons admmit to this, or do they blame this old style of the endoment on
“Anti-Mormons”?

 

[Bill_Pick]

Does anyone have an opinion about the next “Big Love” episode? At least “Big Love” is 95% correct about the LDS religion. At least it isn’t going to be a huge motion picture seen around the world like “The Da Vinci Code” was. Now they’re coming out with a second “Da Vinci Code”! We had a reason to be mad. “The Da Vinci Code” was a deliberate attack on Catholicism. How ironic, the Catholic Church was mad because “The Da Vinci Code” was claiming we have grave secrets we won’t reveal about The Church and Jesus’ life, and now LDS are mad because their secrets might be revealed.

I watch it here last night on HBO I was thinking it is a very good show and I believe most of what was going on at the time in the history of the LDS. Have you heard what any mormons are saying about the show. I like their opinion

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

I watch it here last night on HBO I was thinking it is a very good show and I believe most of what was going on at the time in the history of the LDS. Have you heard what any mormons are saying about the show. I like their opinion

Not yet, but I’m curious to see if they thought it was respectfully done. I think it was, but it’s not my religion so it may be different for them. I hope it didn’t offend them though. I know how that felt when they released the da vinci code.

 

[PaulDupre]

Do Mormons admmit to this, or do they blame this old style of the endoment on
“Anti-Mormons”?

Mostly they deny it and say it is anti-Mormon lies (if they will talk about it at all). Most of the younger LDS don’t even know about previous versions of the endowment. But there are too many of us endowed and temple-married ex-Mormons who know what we’ve been through, plus there are people who have smuggled video cameras into the temple and they have these blood oaths and the defamation of Christian ministers on video tape.

The full text of the old endowment is also in the Congressional Record, as a result of the Reed Smoot hearings.

 

[Eternaly_Secure]

Does anyone have an opinion about the next “Big Love” episode? At least “Big Love” is 95% correct about the LDS religion. At least it isn’t going to be a huge motion picture seen around the world like “The Da Vinci Code” was. Now they’re coming out with a second “Da Vinci Code”! We had a reason to be mad. “The Da Vinci Code” was a deliberate attack on Catholicism. How ironic, the Catholic Church was mad because “The Da Vinci Code” was claiming we have grave secrets we won’t reveal about The Church and Jesus’ life, and now LDS are mad because their secrets might be revealed.

Should it not be the way the Lord Jesus Christ was lied about that should be the cause of tears.

 

[PaulDupre]

Note how, when the conversation turns to the temple, the Mormons all crawl under a rock and disappear. This is because they are under strict orders not to discuss the temple outside of the temple. If one of them engages in dialog about the specifics of the temple ordinances, one of the others might report him and he’ll get disciplined by the church for revealing the secrets.

“The first rule of fight club is don’t talk about fight club”.