“No sin can separate us from Him (God), even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.”

[gcnuss]

(Emphasis mine.)

Now you’re saying something we often say about protestants’ quoting the scriptures out of context. Pick and choose! What an irony.

Re Luther’s letter…
So, if someone receives a death threat or a “rape” threat from someone who may have read and misunderstood Luther’s letter, what is he going to do? Disregard the threat? Ask for further explanations?

What are you going to do to prevent the guy from doing his “faith-inspired” demonic plan if you don’t know the guy?

I seriously doubt that anyone is going to go on a rampage just because he/she happened to read Luther’s letter. In fact, unless one frequents forums like this the chances that he/she would ever come across the letter are minimal. Perhaps, in fact, the very existence of this thread has given the letter unnecessary publicity.

I think you can see that the Lutherans who post here certainly have a far different take on Luther’s letter than many of our Catholic brothers and sisters. Is it possible that we, having spent a lot more time studying Luther, could be correct in our interpretation and that those who hold that Luther was advocating a lawless life are wrong? I know of nothing that would convince me that Luther was doing anything other than engaging in hyperbole in a letter to a friend who would surely have understood it in that light.

 

[TriuneUnity]

I seriously doubt that anyone is going to go on a rampage just because he/she happened to read Luther’s letter. In fact, unless one frequents forums like this the chances that he/she would ever come across the letter are minimal. Perhaps, in fact, the very existence of this thread has given the letter unnecessary publicity.

I think you can see that the Lutherans who post here certainly have a far different take on Luther’s letter than many of our Catholic brothers and sisters. Is it possible that we, having spent a lot more time studying Luther, could be correct in our interpretation and that those who hold that Luther was advocating a lawless life are wrong? I know of nothing that would convince me that Luther was doing anything other than engaging in hyperbole in a letter to a friend who would surely have understood it in that light.

No, no, Pastor, Luther ate babies, can’t you see that!!!??

 

[thirdn6]

I seriously doubt that anyone is going to go on a rampage just because he/she happened to read Luther’s letter. In fact, unless one frequents forums like this the chances that he/she would ever come across the letter are minimal. Perhaps, in fact, the very existence of this thread has given the letter unnecessary publicity.

I think you can see that the Lutherans who post here certainly have a far different take on Luther’s letter than many of our Catholic brothers and sisters. Is it possible that we, having spent a lot more time studying Luther, could be correct in our interpretation and that those who hold that Luther was advocating a lawless life are wrong? I know of nothing that would convince me that Luther was doing anything other than engaging in hyperbole in a letter to a friend who would surely have understood it in that light.

“It is an insult to God if you say that your sin is greater than His mercy.” - would this be a more Christian way of saying it? That phrase I learned from EWTN just in case you asked.

Anyway. Your doubts and opinions no matter how serious could not protect people. Whether you like it or not it is now known worldwide and you do not know what may happen.

Look at what happened to the Catholic bible. One man took it away and disregarded the teaching authority of the church. Now so much confusion! Too many false teachers. Well, that includes you… sorry.

 

[Lilyflower]

“It is an insult to God if you say that your sin is greater than His mercy.” - would this be a more Christian way of saying it? That phrase I learned from EWTN just in case you asked.

Anyway. Your doubts and opinions no matter how serious could not protect people. Whether you like it or not it is now known worldwide and you do not know what may happen.

Look at what happened to the Catholic bible. One man took it away and disregarded the teaching authority of the church. Now so much confusion! Too many false teachers. Well, that includes you… sorry.

Blessings and peace

 

[Jimmy_B]

No, no, Pastor, Luther ate babies, can’t you see that!!!??

Yikes! :bigyikes:

 

[gcnuss]

No, no, Pastor, Luther ate babies, can’t you see that!!!??

Somehow I missed that. While cannibalism was not among Luther’s vices, he was certainly famous for his fondness for that “traditional Lutheran beverage” for which Germany is so well-known. Apparently Katie was an accomplished bräumeister.

 

[TriuneUnity]

Somehow I missed that. While cannibalism was not among Luther’s vices, he was certainly famous for his fondness for that “traditional Lutheran beverage” for which Germany is so well-known. Apparently Katie was an accomplished bräumeister.

hahaha! Jahoval, ist gut.

 

[fbl9]

“It is an insult to God if you say that your sin is greater than His mercy.” - would this be a more Christian way of saying it? :

i was thinking something along this line when i came back to this thread.with the intent to post it but some one ,greater than i,did it for me.

 

[steve_b]

As with all things, read Luther in context, read when he is using satire and rhetoric, and (if you can) read the original German rather than an English translation.

As Catholic scholar Jared Wicks said in his book, Luther and His Spiritual Legacy: “One needs to be on the lookout for Luther’s rhetorical flights, and to be judicious in discriminating between the substance of his message and the linguistic extremes with which he sometimes made his points.”

The point Luther was making is not to go out and murder or fornicate as much as possible; it was to remember the infinite sacrifice of Christ’s atonement: there is no sin that Christ cannot cover. To say that there is would be to limit the Atonement and limit the power of God.

:

Romans 8:35-39

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The quote being discussed is

“No sin can separate us from Him (God), even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.”

Rom 8:35… is the Reference for that Luther quote.

Does the Roman’s quote say we can’t be seperated from God? No.

Does it say sin no matter what kind won’t seperate us from God?No

Of course God can forgive anything. Luther corrupted Paul’s quote to make his point.

 

[Jimmy_B]

The quote being discussed is

“No sin can separate us from Him (God), even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.”

Rom 8:35… is the Reference for that Luther quote.

Does the Roman’s quote say we can’t be seperated from God? No.

Does it say sin no matter what kind won’t seperate us from God?No

Of course God can forgive anything. Luther corrupted Paul’s quote to make his point.

All good points!

 

[Lilyflower]

What about the sin against the Holy Spirit where a person refuses to acknowledge they have sinned and therefore refuse to repent?

The unbeliever who mocks Almighty God calling Him by derogatory names. Only yesterday on the BBC News 24 site a Have Your Say subscriber to a thread ‘should the Anglican Church ordain women bishops’ called Almighty God a ‘cheuvenistic pig!’!!! The Name which is so sacred even the demons believe and tremble.Some Jews will not even wirte the name believing It to be so sacred! Surely mocking Almighty God is a sin against the HS

Blessings and peace

 

[steve_b]

What about the sin against the Holy Spirit where a person refuses to acknowledge they have sinned and therefore refuse to repent?

The unbeliever who mocks Almighty God calling Him by derogatory names. Only yesterday on the BBC News 24 site a Have Your Say subscriber to a thread ‘should the Anglican Church ordain women bishops’ called Almighty God a ‘cheuvenistic pig!’!!! The Name which is so sacred even the demons believe and tremble.Some Jews will not even wirte the name believing It to be so sacred! Surely mocking Almighty God is a sin against the HS

Blessings and peace

As you point out, repent is key.

I think the point is, God CAN forgive anything, on THIS side of eternity, providing we repent. If we are obstinate, defiant, unrepenting to the end, God eternalizes the direction we are going in.

 

[Lilyflower]

As you point out, repent is key.

I think the point is, God CAN forgive anything, on THIS side of eternity, providing we repent. If we are obstinate, defiant, unrepenting to the end, God eternalizes the direction we are going in.

I think you have expressed it so well.

Blessings and peace

 

[Jimmy_B]

“No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.”
“Let Your Sins Be Strong: A Letter from Luther to Melanchthon”.– c.1521)

What do you think?

Do you agree with this Martin Luther quote?

I would like hear the Protestant, non-Catholic, or former Catholic response to this; especially the response from those who actually believe in the false belief of , “Once Saved Always Saved” (OSAS).

 

[JoeBlow]

What do you think?

Do you agree with this Martin Luther quote? -

“No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.”
“Let Your Sins Be Strong: A Letter from Luther to Melanchthon”.– c.1521)

Not unless he means something else I’m not aware of.

That verse was written to Christians. Skip over to 1 John and it tells us that those who continue to sin are not born again.

So it you were to willfully and repeatedly do these things then, yes, you’re very much seperated from God by your sin.

 

[JonNC]

Not unless he means something else I’m not aware of.

That verse was written to Christians. Skip over to 1 John and it tells us that those who continue to sin are not born again.

So it you were to willfully and repeatedly do these things then, yes, you’re very much seperated from God by your sin.

He wrote this to a Christian, not Christians. It was a personal letter, not a theological or doctrinal statement, nor was it even a homily. He was using hyperbole to describe to a close friend his belief in the incredible ability and desire of God to forgive us - so incredible he allowed his son to die on the cross, though He bore no guilt of sin except ours.
My suspicion: Luther knew Melanchton to be a mild, calm sort of man, not at all predisposed to heinous sin. The shocking nature of his hyperbole would dramatically make is point.

Lost in this entire thread is the true message Luther sent to Melanchton; God’s love is so great, so compassionate, so beyond our understanding or even sometimes our belief (why would He do this for me?), that he is willing and desirous to forgive the worst of my sins. All I must do (and it is through His grace that I can even do it!! How marvelous!!!) is believe, confess, and strive with the help of the Holy Spirit to “go and sin no more”.

Jon

 

[Jimmy_B]

Hi James!

I understand what you are saying here, but what about those things that honestly we can not except as truth? For example–the CC’s teaching on birth control? Does the church truly teach that if a married couple uses the birth control pill it is a mortal sin? Thank you!

God Bless!

Hello emeraldcoast,

Yes, the use of artificial birth control is still forbidden in Catholicism. However, it is my understanding that if a woman is prescribed the “pill” for another unrelated illness, other than for birth control, that, that would be an exception. I’m not sure though, so, if there is anyone here who knows the answer to this question, maybe they can help out emeraldcoast.

Peace

 

[youth4christ21]

I agree…It seems to me that no sin can keep us from Gof IF we sincerely seek forgiveness.

Annie

I have to belive that the key to this quote is best stated with annie’s quote “…if we sincerely seek forgiveness.” if we keep committing these sins over and over (mortal sins), we are only pushing God away from our lives. God still gives us the choice to choose between him and the Devil, and while he can forgive us for these sins, it is our decision to let him in or not.

 

[JoeBlow]

He wrote this to a Christian, not Christians. It was a personal letter, not a theological or doctrinal statement

The verse he was referring to was written to Christians.

All I must do (and it is through His grace that I can even do it!! How marvelous!!!) is believe, confess, and strive with the help of the Holy Spirit to “go and sin no more”.

Or you can repent and put your faith in Christ like the Bible says.

 

[thecoach]

Of course I don’t believe it. I’m a Catholic, so I accept the Catholic teaching on mortal sin.

What I don’t get is why anyone ever listened to that crackpot in the first place.

SO you dont beleive in repentance? Then dont waste time in the confessional!