“Once Saved Always Saved” ...

[Chris258]

… I see you are from Louisiana. I grew up in Louisiana (any chance you know where Breaux Bridge is?)
Older than you by 17 years though … (ooo … feelings of oldness).

Salut !!

michel

Breaux Bridge? Sorry, I don’t. The name sounds like it’s in the southern half.

I live in Shreveport, but I do go to school at Tulane way down in N’awlins. (I have no idea where people get that characteristic name; I’ve never heard a New Orleans local pronounce it that way).

 

[palmas85]

“Once Saved Always Saved” or “OSAS” is an errant belief that many Protestant Christians hold to and there are many different “Protestant” definitions of what “OSAS” actually means.

Which leads us to the second errant Protestant belief, which allows for the “Personal Interpretation of the Bible”.

These two beliefs came from man’s ego and and his own intellect and not from God. They are both anti-biblical and anti-Christian, they are nonsensical and they do not work in the real world. They are both a contradiction.

Many more beliefs that are false have arose from these first two false beliefs (OSAS and Personal interpretation) and they have cause much division and many, million individual cases, where people actually belong to the “religion of their own intellect and ego” and not to any Church that Jesus Christ founded and that God intended for all men.

I am a Roman Catholic, so obviously I disagree with these two fabricated, man-made errors; “OSAS” and “Personal Interpretation of the Bible”.

What are your thoughts?

 

[cazayoux]

Breaux Bridge? Sorry, I don’t. The name sounds like it’s in the southern half.

I live in Shreveport, but I do go to school at Tulane way down in N’awlins. (I have no idea where people get that characteristic name; I’ve never heard a New Orleans local pronounce it that way).

hehehe …

Breaux Bridge is 5 minutes East of Lafayette (I-10 and I-49 intersection)

I usually hear it more like … Noo Wallin’s … kinda like the ‘w’ goes with the second word.

best of luck in school, bud!

michel

 

[backfrmthebrink]

Right, Christ came for Israel.
He was supposed to reunite the 12 tribes.
How is this so if most were ‘lost’, gone to the north?

I remember reading someone that explained it this way.
The only way Jesus *could *reunite all of the lost tribes to Israel and to God was to open the faith up to the Gentiles.
Those lost tribes had been assimilated into the Gentile cultures and were no longer purely Israel. The only way to include all of Israel’s blood was to include ALL of the world into salvation.

Just ramblings.

Regarding Peter and Paul teaching the Jews and Gentiles, respectively …
I agree, but we must remember that is was Peter that first preached to the Gentiles (Acts 10:45) and Paul’s first stop in a city was always the synagogue (Acts 13:14, for examle).

michel

True: I like you attention to these things. I do find it intresting however. Someone asked me a question once. How many gospels are there? He was getting at some original text that said two different gospels for Jews and Gentiles.
As for Christ reachihng the gentiles, Time and again though he was approached by gentiles and he still healed but I think made the point for us that He was not hear for that. That someone else would be along. Praise God is all I can say huh.

 

[cazayoux]

True: I like you attention to these things. I do find it intresting however. Someone asked me a question once. How many gospels are there? He was getting at some original text that said two different gospels for Jews and Gentiles.
As for Christ reachihng the gentiles, Time and again though he was approached by gentiles and he still healed but I think made the point for us that He was not hear for that. That someone else would be along. Praise God is all I can say huh.

This morning, for some reason, I’m feeling very blessed that we live in a time and area of the world where we can discuss these things without fear of death or imprisonment.
We all love Christ.
We want to serve Him the best that we can.
I think, maybe, this is why most of us are on these boards.

Praise be to Christ!!

michel

 

[backfrmthebrink]

Ha Amen to that. I think on that frequently. There is real testing of faith out there we have never experienced ourselves.

 

[distracted]

Are you always this hostile? No Paul did not contradict Christ. Thjat is the point. It cannot be both ways and if you do not rightly divide the word of God you will have nothing but contradictions. Then you wait for the CC to interpret. You will be waiting a long time.
No the Church is not the new Jersulem. The Church is the Bride. The NJ is the NJ the citry the reign of the Kingdom on earth. Christ and the Bride reign over Israewl in this kingdom reign.
You would do well to be less hostil and more studious

Are you always this hostile?.. and if you do not rightly divide the word of God, which the Catholic Church has already done, you will have nothing but contradictions… You will be waiting a long time to build a Church like the Original one (something like infinity). I believe the Church is the new Jersusalem. The Church is the Bride… ?]… Christ and the Bride rule over the earth. You would do well to be less hostil [sic] against Christ’s Church and the members therein and [be] more studious, as in take an RCIA class before you go bashing something you so obviously do not understand.

 

[distracted]

Are you always this hostile?

are you always this hostile?

Or just to Catholics… ?

 

[Jimmy_B]

…

… …:extrahappy:

 

[backfrmthebrink]

Are you always this hostile?.. and if you do not rightly divide the word of God, which the Catholic Church has already done, you will have nothing but contradictions… You will be waiting a long time to build a Church like the Original one (something like infinity). I believe the Church is the new Jersusalem. The Church is the Bride… ?]… Christ and the Bride rule over the earth. You would do well to be less hostil [sic] against Christ’s Church and the members therein and [be] more studious, as in take an RCIA class before you go bashing something you so obviously do not understand.

Distracted, distracted, distracted: This is my point, You can believe that the NJ is the church all you want and not understand that the church is the bride but that is not what the Bible says. The NJ is an actual peerfected city. Rev 21 THE perfected city wherein sits Christs throne. As for study on the Bride, 2 cor 11:2, Rev 19:7, 22:17, For your information there can be no other church than that of the body of believers.
Again understanding is not my problem here. I suggest you study again. It is wise indeed for all of us don’t you think but don’t try to teach something as preposturous as what you are trying to do.

 

[SIA]

Distracted, distracted, distracted: This is my point, You can believe that the NJ is the church all you want and not understand that the church is the bride but that is not what the Bible says. The NJ is an actual peerfected city. Rev 21 THE perfected city wherein sits Christs throne. As for study on the Bride, 2 cor 11:2, Rev 19:7, 22:17, For your information there can be no other church than that of the body of believers.
Again understanding is not my problem here. I suggest you study again. It is wise indeed for all of us don’t you think but don’t try to teach something as preposturous as what you are trying to do.

You rightfully can’t expect Catholics to fully understand the Scriptures and even read them for that matter. When I was Catholic we never read the Bible as a family when I was growing up because my parents feared that they would always misunderstand what they read or that they would interpret it in a different way that what the RCC had sanctioned. That isn’t in any way what Christ taught or what Paul taught about reading and rightfully dividing Scripture. This was just pure wrongfiul fear instituted by the RCC then and now. Since becoming Anglican, I read Scripture almost daily. It has filled many voids in my life and I understand so much more about what God wants for us and how my faith has grown so much. My Anglican church encourages us to read Scripture and pray. No fear for me anymore, just pure unmolested joy in GOD"S Word.

 

[iaskquestions]

When I was Catholic we never read the Bible as a family when I was growing up because my parents feared that they would always misunderstand what they read or that they would interpret it in a different way that what the RCC had sanctioned.

With all respect, I think this is just an excuse for not wanting to read the Bible.

That isn’t in any way what Christ taught or what Paul taught about reading and rightfully dividing Scripture.

What exactly are you referring to? Please quote the scripture.

This was just pure wrongful fear instituted by the RCC then and now.

Prove what you have said. Will you also condemn Peter? Look what he said, “So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.” (2 Peter 3:15-16)

Now is Peter instituting a “wrongful fear” in the minds of the people? Absolutely not. In fact he is **warning them of the dangers **of following one’s own interpretation of things that are hard to understand.

“First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation…” (1 Peter 1:20)

It’s when you encounter such “hard things” that you should seek the help of the Catholic Church to help you understand it better. For “simple things” like “love thy neighbour” you can easily follow your own interpretation for that’s pretty simple and straightforward. In that case your interpretation will not be any different from the interpretation of the Catholic Church.

Consider a practical example. If I am a father and I have a little child. Suppose he’s just learning how to cross a street by himself. Will I not warn him about the dangers that he has to watch out for? I am instilling “wrongful fear” into him, ofcourse not.

Since becoming Anglican, I read Scripture almost daily

That’s good. But it’s nothing new to us, faithful Catholics, who read scripture daily!

My Anglican church encourages us to read Scripture and pray. No fear for me anymore, just pure unmolested joy in GOD"S Word

My Catholic Church encourages me to read scripture and pray, but also warns me about the dangers of personal interpretation of “hard things”.

 

[SIA]

My Catholic Church encourages me to read scripture and pray, but also warns me about the dangers of personal interpretation of “hard things”.

This is exactly my point. Why aren’t you encouraged to study with others and pray for the discernment of the Spirit? I can be assured from reading what you have posted that it isn’t because you aren’t smart enough or persistant enough to do that. And remember, nobody can put a bead on God’s wisdom. Nobody! I never could digest the RCC telling me that i could not read the Bible and sustain what i was reading for myself. The Bible itself encourages us to study the Word.

 

[iaskquestions]

This is exactly my point. Why aren’t you encouraged to study with others and pray for the discernment of the Spirit?

You yourself see how well protestants study the scripture and pray for the discernment of the Spirit! Talk about 32000 protestant denominations! Discernment of the Spirit!

If you are really praying for the discernment of the Spirit then the Spirit will show you what it means when Peter says, “First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation…” (1 Peter 1:20)

Where does scripture tell you to read it and then ask the Holy Spirit for discernment so that you can have your own personal interpretation?

 

[iaskquestions]

I never could digest the RCC telling me that i could not read the Bible and sustain what i was reading for myself. The Bible itself encourages us to study the Word.

Don’t be under wrong assumptions. The Catholic Church has never said that you cannot read the Bible. Don’t put words into the Church’s mouth! The church only warns us of the fact that at times our personal interpretation can be wrong.

What did Christians do for 1500 years before the printing press was invented and bibles were widely distributed? Did they study scripture by themselves and pray for discernment? No. In fact they learnt from the authorized teachers. No wonder there were not many divisions, for people understood scripture correctly, for it was** taught **to them. There was no concept of “self-study”.

But when people began to study by themselves (I’m not saying that is wrong) and form their **own interpretations **(which can be wrong), they just couldn’t agree among themselves! 32000 denominations! All claiming to be guided by the Spirit!

 

[estesbob]

You rightfully can’t expect Catholics to fully understand the Scriptures and even read them for that matter. When I was Catholic we never read the Bible as a family when I was growing up because my parents feared that they would always misunderstand what they read or that they would interpret it in a different way that what the RCC had sanctioned. .

Since the Church has binding interpretations of less than a half dozen verses i doubt that that was their reason.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

You rightfully can’t expect Catholics to fully understand the Scriptures and even read them for that matter. When I was Catholic we never read the Bible as a family when I was growing up because my parents feared that they would always misunderstand what they read or that they would interpret it in a different way that what the RCC had sanctioned. That isn’t in any way what Christ taught or what Paul taught about reading and rightfully dividing Scripture. This was just pure wrongfiul fear instituted by the RCC then and now. Since becoming Anglican, I read Scripture almost daily. It has filled many voids in my life and I understand so much more about what God wants for us and how my faith has grown so much. My Anglican church encourages us to read Scripture and pray. No fear for me anymore, just pure unmolested joy in GOD"S Word.

I read Holy Scripture daily, and I’m Catholic. Without the Magisterium of the Church, you end up with 33,000 different protestant sects all with differing interpretations of the Bible (which is itself a product of the Magisterium of the Church, by the way). As far as the integrity and faithfulness to the Scripture of the Anglican church, is it your lesbian bishop who encourages you to read the Scripture? What does the Scripture have to say about that?

 

[estesbob]

I read Holy Scripture daily, and I’m Catholic. Without the Magisterium of the Church, you end up with 33,000 different protestant sects all with differing interpretations of the Bible (which is itself a product of the Magisterium of the Church, by the way). As far as the integrity and faithfulness to the Scripture of the Anglican church, is it your lesbian bishop who encourages you to read the Scripture? What does the Scripture have to say about that?

Me too. Today I have prayed 12 psalms, read an a chapter of Sirach concerning Solomon, read a long discourse by Augustine on the Psalms ,heard readings from Isaiah & Paul and listened a Gospel reading where Jesus explained why he uses parables to teach and heard a very insightful sermon on that Gospel reading. Of course the highlight of my day(as it is most days) was holding our Lord and Savior in my hands and following his admonition to eat his Body and drink his blood.

The Angilcan Church is a perfect example of whatb happens when everybody gets to have their own theology. in the past 70 years they have changed doctines on contraception, homosexuality, female ordination, and abortion-just to name a few. Only via personal interptetation can one discern that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality and allows priestesees.

 

[SIA]

I read Holy Scripture daily, and I’m Catholic. Without the Magisterium of the Church, you end up with 33,000 different protestant sects all with differing interpretations of the Bible (which is itself a product of the Magisterium of the Church, by the way). As far as the integrity and faithfulness to the Scripture of the Anglican church, is it your lesbian bishop who encourages you to read the Scripture? What does the Scripture have to say about that?

Again you are totally misinformed here. Catholics are equally as ignornt of Protestants as they claim Protestants are of them. I do NOT have a lesbian bishop and in fact my bishop isn’t even a female. My bishop’s name is Archbishop Orombi and I am not Episcopalian. You obviously don’t get that. Oh yes, by the way, would you care to list the 33,000 denominations that you claim there to be and do list their proper names please.

 

[SIA]

Since the Church has binding interpretations of less than a half dozen verses i doubt that that was their reason.

hmm, then where does the interpretation of all the other verses in Scripture come from if only a few are manditorily interpreted by the church? You say personal interpretation is no good so where does it come from? Thin air?