“Relatio” causes a stir in the Synod: it is a preparatory text

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Prodigal_Son said:
Releasing this midway was an effective way to get the “sense of the faithful”, in the middle of the Synod. I think there may be very clever reasons they chose to act this way. Better a firestorm now than next week. Next week, our shepherds probably want us to be focusing on practical questions instead of attacking them.
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Indeed. Better to get the (probably inevitable) firestorm out of the way in the middle rather than at the end where it will linger in the air for an entire year.
 
christus_vincit said:
They should have done the entire thing in secrecy. They are confusing and misleading the universal Church and doing nothing to remedy our concerns. God help us.
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The progressives are much encouraged by the confusion and dispute and I believe it only further fuels rebellion in the dissidents. What will happen if their expectations are all for naught? I personally find it somewhat scandalous the way they have allowed things to develop.
 
Tigg said:
The progressives are much encouraged by the confusion and dispute and I believe it only further fuels rebellion in the dissidents. What will happen if their expectations are all for naught? I personally find it somewhat scandalous the way they have allowed things to develop.
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That’s not true. The discussion itself is encouraging, especially since it appears they are actually discussing the difficult questions and seeing if there are any solutions.

Most of us liberal Catholics don’t really expect any change at all so if it is all for naught we will still be here in the Church, even it’s in the fringes (e.g. gay Catholics). A more interesting question is if there is anything that is construed as a change. I see more calls for schism and threats to leave the church from the more traditional side.
 
J_Peterson said:
That’s not true. The discussion itself is encouraging, especially since it appears they are actually discussing the difficult questions and seeing if there are any solutions.

Most of us liberal Catholics don’t really expect any change at all so if it is all for naught we will still be here in the Church, even it’s in the fringes (e.g. gay Catholics). A more interesting question is if there is anything that is construed as a change. I see more calls for schism and threats to leave the church from the more traditional side.
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As if schism wasn’t threatened by certain German bishops and others when Benedict was Pope?
 
ProVobis said:
As if schism wasn’t threatened by certain German bishops and others when Benedict was Pope?
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I’m going to guess that you are right. I only started coming back to the Church in 2010 and didn’t pay much attention to this type of thing until Pope Francis. I wasn’t even sure I was going to stick with the Chruch for a while.
 
ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/evidence-emerges-of-an-engineered-synod

Evidence Emerges of an Engineered Synod

"More and more there is talk in Rome that this synod is being engineered by groups intent on steering the Church in a heterodox direction, and increasingly evidence is coming to light that points to it… "

“…whoever was behind the release of the document most probably knew the impact it would have, and effectively sent it over the heads of everyone, including the Pope. When I asked Father Lombardi today if the Holy Father had seen it before it was published, he returned to the fact that it is standard procedure to send out the report – remarkably for such a sensitive document – without even the Pope or the synod presidents having to see it.”

“In his interview with the Register published yesterday, Cardinal Burke said what is being presented to the media does not tally with what’s happening in the assembly. “What is coming out does not reflect the reality, in my judgment,” he said. “I am speaking very openly about it because I think it is my moral obligation.” And he added people “are pushing the agenda” of Cardinal Kasper and his proposal for the divorced and civilly remarried. Some have said this synod reminds them of the methods used to hijack the Second Vatican Council. Veteran Vatican watchers say such engineering is unprecedented in the modern Church.”
 
McCall1981 said:
ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/evidence-emerges-of-an-engineered-synod

Evidence Emerges of an Engineered Synod

"More and more there is talk in Rome that this synod is being engineered by groups intent on steering the Church in a heterodox direction, and increasingly evidence is coming to light that points to it… "

“…whoever was behind the release of the document most probably knew the impact it would have, and effectively sent it over the heads of everyone, including the Pope. When I asked Father Lombardi today if the Holy Father had seen it before it was published, he returned to the fact that it is standard procedure to send out the report – remarkably for such a sensitive document – without even the Pope or the synod presidents having to see it.”

“In his interview with the Register published yesterday, Cardinal Burke said what is being presented to the media does not tally with what’s happening in the assembly. “What is coming out does not reflect the reality, in my judgment,” he said. “I am speaking very openly about it because I think it is my moral obligation.” And he added people “are pushing the agenda” of Cardinal Kasper and his proposal for the divorced and civilly remarried. Some have said this synod reminds them of the methods used to hijack the Second Vatican Council. Veteran Vatican watchers say such engineering is unprecedented in the modern Church.”
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This is foil hat wearing hysteria…
 
Jon_S said:
This is foil hat wearing hysteria…
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Even if it’s not and there is some conspiracy, I’m not worried. The Holy Spirit isn’t asleep. God’s still in control. He won’t let the Church teach something false. Can’t happen.
 
Tigg said:
I really hope this remark is not directed toward Card Raymond Burke since he is the figure most prominently speaking for clarification.
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I agree Tigg 🙂 Cardinal Burke is the one giving me hope. God bless him!

+Pax 🙂

P.S: I love your signature!👍

“Neither human nature nor the Commandments nor the Gospel have an expiry date.”

~ Cardinal Walter Brandmuller ~
 
Mark121359 said:
You and me both!
In case you missed it Megan…
youtube.com/watch?v=UBCl5NLs81M&list=PL0B89A05F9F6D3E47

Peace, Mark
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Dear Mark,

Thank you so much!👍

I appreciate the link. I will watch it right away!😃 Thank you. It looks like a real GEM! Please keep Cardinal Burke in your prayers, he needs all of the help from above he can get. We need him! I started a prayer thread for him (prayer section of the forum), please join us when you get the chance.:highprayer:

God bless you!

+Pax

P.S: I love the picture & verse in your signature. I did the consecration, prayers to her.
 
Megan7 said:
Dear Mark,

Thank you so much!👍

I appreciate the link. I will watch it right away!😃 Thank you. It looks like a real GEM! Please keep Cardinal Burke in your prayers, he needs all of the help from above he can get. We need him! I started a prayer thread for him (prayer section of the forum), please join us when you get the chance.:highprayer:

God bless you!

+Pax

P.S: I love the picture & verse in your signature. I did the consecration, prayers to her.
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Good to see you did the consecration! 👍 I’ll look for your thread as well. And may God Bless you also Megan!
Peace, Mark***
 
All will be well…
.
ROME – “Undignified, shameful” and “completely wrong.” This was the terse assessment of Cardinal Gerhard Muller, the head of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, about the Synod on the Family’s so-called "relatio*," or midterm report, in one of the Synod’s “small groups,” as reported by La Reppublica. *
*Indeed, while Cardinal Raymond Burke has perhaps been the most vocal of the Synod fathers in his opposition to Monday’s interim report, what is becoming more and more clear is that his concerns are shared by **many *of the Synod fathers.
 
Catherine_S said:
All will be well…
.
ROME – “Undignified, shameful” and “completely wrong.” This was the terse assessment of Cardinal Gerhard Muller, the head of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, about the Synod on the Family’s so-called "relatio*," or midterm report, in one of the Synod’s “small groups,” as reported by La Reppublica. *
Indeed, while Cardinal Raymond Burke has perhaps been the most vocal of the Synod fathers in his opposition to Monday’s interim report, what is becoming more and more clear is that his concerns are shared by many of the Synod fathers.
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Thanks for your thread:)
 
DaddyGirl said:
The “secular” media reports were not so different from the “non-secular” media reports.
And they quoted the document correctly.
I don’t know why this article would say the media focused on “wrong” points. Just because the media focuses on points some don’t like, it doesn’t mean they are “wrong”.
In fact, they were very right.
The media picked up on sections in the document that were most surprising and unexpected. That is the job of the reporters.
The big, bad “secular media” (whatever that means) consistently reported that the document was an update halfway thru the meetings.
The media do not care if the church “caves” or not.
But if it does, they will report it. And if it doesn’t, they will report it.

No one should be blaming the media if the Synod’s published words were not what they meant to say. The words are right there, on the document. If they do not want the media to quote certain phrases, they should not write those phrases and then hand it out to be published.
I’m thinking…someone, for sure, wanted this document–this Relatio–to be published just as it is, and go around the world. There is no way a document like this gets carelessly released to the media and to the public online by mistake.

.
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The problem is the media is reporting it as if it is church law now. As if the document had weight.

They should report that the synod has Been discussing the topics and posted a summary of discussions.

What becomes of the discussions is way up in the air.
 
Catherine_S said:
All will be well…
.
ROME – “Undignified, shameful” and “completely wrong.” This was the terse assessment of Cardinal Gerhard Muller, the head of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, about the Synod on the Family’s so-called "relatio*," or midterm report, in one of the Synod’s “small groups,” as reported by La Reppublica. *
Indeed, while Cardinal Raymond Burke has perhaps been the most vocal of the Synod fathers in his opposition to Monday’s interim report, what is becoming more and more clear is that his concerns are shared by **many **of the Synod fathers.
Click to expand...
***. ***
Forgot to add web link …
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/shameful-numerous-vatican-synod-fathers-line-up-against-interim-report?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=9f1cb97943-LifeSiteNews_com_Canada_Headlines_06_19_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0caba610ac-9f1cb97943-326156810
 
At today’s media briefing on the Synod of Bishops Cardinal Gerhard Mueller, prefect of the CDF, made a surprising announcement, vigorously denying a widely disseminated report (from La Repubblica) that he had said that the “relatio” was “shameless.” He denied saying that and said that such language wasn’t even in his “vocabulary.”
 
From Akins’ article: "John Paul II rejected this view when he gave a homily at the synod and stated that “what is known as ‘the law of gradualness’ or step-by-step advance cannot be identified with ‘gradualness of the law,’ as if there were different degrees or forms of precept in God’s law for different individuals and situations.”

This was brought out in the Relatio - Circulus Anglicus “A” (Burke’s group) and submitted to the secretary of the Synod for incorporation in the final document. They suggested:

“We had serious questions about the presentation of the principle of GRADUALITY. We wished to show in our amendments that we are not speaking of the GRADUALITY of DOCTRINE of faith and morals, but rather the gradual moral growth of the individual in his or her actions.”

press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/it/bollettino/pubblico/2014/10/16/0763/03042.html#Relatio - Circulus Anglicus “A”

So everyone take a deep breath and wait for the final document. Which now looks to be issued on Sunday or Monday.
 
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