“Sweating” of Jesus in the tomb where he was laid hints Jesus lived

[paarsurrey]

boloji.com/opinion/0206.htm
Did Jesus Die in India?
by Kusum Choppra

”According to Kersten and some scientists, it was the “sweating” of the body under the shroud permeated with aloe and myrrh that left the unique and detailed impression on the linen shroud which confounded investigations for centuries.
Using the latest available scientific techniques, Kersten has established the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin and used it to bolster his argument that Jesus lived”

 

[Robertwilliam]

The Bible says that Jesus breathed his last, and gave up His Spirit, which means He died.

 

[ricko]

I saw all the reports and saw the scientists working on the shroud and the conclusion was they could not establish how the image got on the cloth. The closest thing they could come to was it might have been caused by a burst of light similiar to images that were “burnt” (for lack of a better word) onto objects from the atom bombs dropped on Japan.

 

[paarsurrey]

The Bible says that Jesus breathed his last, and gave up His Spirit, which means He died.

Hi

Jesus disciples could not announce that Jesus had survived death on Cross lest the Jews follow Jesus to persecute him and try to kill him again, so they gave the impression that Jesus had died.

Thanks

 

[Corki]

Hi

Jesus disciples could not announce that Jesus had survived death on Cross lest the Jews follow Jesus to persecute him and try to kill him again, so they gave the impression that Jesus had died.

Thanks

But it was the Roman soldiers, not the Jews, who verified that Jesus was dead before allowing the Jews to bury him.

 

[ricko]

There is no evidence to that fact. Consider that he was crucified by the Romans. As Roman soliders they were to make sure that all three were dead. If they were not, they were to break their legs which I assume would bring on death soon. When they examined Jesus they found him to be dead and they did not break his legs. A Roman solider not performing his duty would have been subjected to harsh punishment. Your statement has no basis in fact and is false.

 

[survive]

Of course he was alive in the cloth, after he was resurrected and until he was unwrapped and standing.

 

[mark_a]

Hi

Jesus disciples could not announce that Jesus had survived death on Cross lest the Jews follow Jesus to persecute him and try to kill him again, so they gave the impression that Jesus had died.

Thanks

How would you explain the fact that the apostles were martyred? Seems to me if they were all liars, at least some of them would told the cowardly truth that Jesus really lived so they could save their own lives.

Try again.

 

[ralphinal]

The problem with the sweating concept is multi-fascited. Here are some of the issues

First, the image on the cloth is a photo-graphic negative. This would not occur by sweat and oil stain.

Second, the idea that contact with the sweat and oil body would cause such a full image is crazy on the surface. The image on the shroud does not show spots where the body had no contact with the cloth. Nor does it show where the actual contact was greatest. In other words, no sweat or oil stains on the chest and back taht are worse than in the eyes

Third, it just doesn’t fit with the story. Sorry, the Romans were professional killers. They did not mess up. To say someone was dead when he was not was to sign your own death warrant.

 

[ricko]

Here is a partial summary from one of the scientists, Sturp:

No pigments, paints, dyes or stains have been found on the fibrils. X-ray, fluorescence and microchemistry on the fibrils preclude the possibility of paint being used as a method for creating the image. Ultra Violet and infrared evaluation confirm these studies. Computer image enhancement and analysis by a device known as a VP-8 image analyzer show that the image has unique, three-dimensional information encoded in it. Microchemical evaluation has indicated no evidence of any spices, oils, or any biochemicals known to be produced by the body in life or in death.

shroud.com/78conclu.htm

 

[ralphinal]

Here is a partial summary from one of the scientists, Sturp:

No pigments, paints, dyes or stains have been found on the fibrils. X-ray, fluorescence and microchemistry on the fibrils preclude the possibility of paint being used as a method for creating the image. Ultra Violet and infrared evaluation confirm these studies. Computer image enhancement and analysis by a device known as a VP-8 image analyzer show that the image has unique, three-dimensional information encoded in it. Microchemical evaluation has indicated no evidence of any spices, oils, or any biochemicals known to be produced by the body in life or in death.

shroud.com/78conclu.htm

Hey, never let science stand in the way of a good lie to vouch for heresy

 

[LilyM]

There is no evidence to that fact. Consider that he was crucified by the Romans. As Roman soliders they were to make sure that all three were dead. If they were not, they were to break their legs which I assume would bring on death soon. When they examined Jesus they found him to be dead and they did not break his legs. A Roman solider not performing his duty would have been subjected to harsh punishment. Your statement has no basis in fact and is false.

But wait … there’s more! :yup:

Firstly we need to remember that there were Roman soldiers set to guard Jesus’ tomb. That in itself was unprecedented. Why guard the tomb of a criminal?

The Romans did so because they KNEW the rumoured stories of Jesus raising numerous people from the dead, which of course had already spread during His lifetime. They KNEW that the Apostles might in future claim similarly that He himself had raised from the dead - the Gospels tell us that the Romans feared this exact thing happening.

Of COURSE, knowing these rumours, and having all of these fears, the Romans made 200% certain that Jesus was dead. And they knew He was dead, to an absolute certainty. How did they know?

One of the executioners stabbed him straight through the heart with a spear, and killed him if He hadn’t been dead already. We know the spear successfully entered the heart because of the WATER (fluid from the sac around the heart) that came out of the wound as well as blood.

Anyone with the most basic medical knowledge can verify that without our modern medical treatments NO-ONE could survive being stabbed straight through the heart in this way, NOBODY. Jesus was 200%, 500%, 1000% DEAD when He was taken down from that cross, because the Romans had made certain of His death as they did with the other two criminals.

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by paarsurrey:

Jesus disciples could not announce that Jesus had survived death on Cross lest the Jews follow Jesus to persecute him and try to kill him again, so they gave the impression that Jesus had died.

But it was the Roman soldiers, not the Jews, who verified that Jesus was dead before allowing the Jews to bury him.

Hi

Pilate wanted to save Jesus’ death and he must have planned the events with his friends in the officials, in my opinion.

I quote here from the Second Coming 1835-1908:

Similarly the dream which the wife of Pilate dreamt was a part of God’s design, and it could never be that this design should fail in its object; and just as the possibility of Jesus being put to death during the Egyptian journey was against a specific promise of God, so here it is unthinkable that the angel of Almighty God should appear to the wife of Pilate and should direct her to say that if Jesus died on the Cross it would not be a happy thing for her, and yet the angel’s appearance should go in vain, and Jesus should be allowed to suffer death on the Cross.

Is there any example of this in the world?None.

The pure conscience of all good men, when informed of the dream of Pilate’s wife, will no doubt testify that it was a fact that the purpose of that dream was to lay the foundation for the rescue of Jesus. It is of course open to everybody to deny an out-and-out truth; out of prejudice born of his creed, he may refuse to accept it, but fairness would oblige us to believe that the dream of Pilate’s wife is a piece of weighty evidence in support of Jesus’ escape from the Cross.

The first in rank among the gospels, i.e., Matthew, has recorded this evidence. Although, therefore, the powerful evidence which I shall set out in this book invalidates the divinity of Jesus and the doctrine of Atonement, yet honesty and love of fairness require us not to be partial to a communal or customary creed on a question of fact.

From the day of the creation of man up till to-day the limited intellect of man has invested a thousand things with Divinity and Godhead, so much so that even cats and snakes have been worshipped; nevertheless wise people, through heaven’s help, have continued to be saved from the evil of such polytheistic beliefs.
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

I love Jesus

Thanks

 

[LilyM]

Hi

Pilate wanted to save Jesus’ death and he must have planned the events with his friends in the officials, in my opinion.

I quote here from the Second Coming 1835-1908:

Similarly the dream which the wife of Pilate dreamt was a part of God’s design, and it could never be that this design should fail in its object; and just as the possibility of Jesus being put to death during the Egyptian journey was against a specific promise of God, so here it is unthinkable that the angel of Almighty God should appear to the wife of Pilate and should direct her to say that if Jesus died on the Cross it would not be a happy thing for her, and yet the angel’s appearance should go in vain, and Jesus should be allowed to suffer death on the Cross.

Rubbish. Didn’t Pharoah* regularly* thwart God’s will by refusing to let the Israelites leave Egypt? Doesn’t EVERY sinner thwart God’s specific plans for them every single time they choose to do what is sinful?

God certainly specifically does not will us to sin, otherwise He wouldn’t punish those who DO sin, would He? So it stands to reason that we thwart His plans for us every time we sin.

As for Pilate - he and his wife clearly found no support for the idea of helping Jesus, neither among the Jews nor their fellow Romans. If they had, then they would’ve used this support to let Jesus go without even pretending to crucify him.

I love Jesus

Thanks

You don’t know Jesus, not really - you love a false idea of Him.

 

[paarsurrey]

Oringinally posted by paarsurrey:
I love Jesus

Thanks

You don’t know Jesus, not really - you love a false idea of Him.

Hi

I know that it is your opinion, however, not a fact that I should worry about.

Thanks

 

[ricko]

Pure fantasy.

 

[Robertwilliam]

Hi

I know that it is your opinion, however, not a fact that I should worry about.

Thanks

If you did love Jesus, you would believe the testimony He gave about himself, that He would go to Jerusalem, suffer many things by the elders and be killed and rise from the dead after three days.
Then there are the testimonies of the four Gospel writers themselves who state that He died on the Cross.
Also the testimony of St. Paul who wrote: Christ DIED for our sins according to the Scriptures, and He was buried, and rose again according to the scriptures.
All the evidence points to his death and resurrection.
I LOVE JESUS.

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

I think the Romans knew a thing or two about when someone was dead…

And I’m not sure how someone (anyone) would be able to survive:

1. Scourging
2. Crucifixion
3. Being run through with a spear while being crucified

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Of course he was alive in the cloth, after he was resurrected and until he was unwrapped and standing.

If he was not dead as a doornail, & later raised from death, it is idle - deceptive, indeed - to speak of resurrection from the dead; let alone Resurrection from the dead.​

 

[cerad]

Rubbish. Didn’t Pharoah* regularly* thwart God’s will by refusing to let the Israelites leave Egypt? Doesn’t EVERY sinner thwart God’s specific plans for them every single time they choose to do what is sinful?

Well, not to nitpick but technically, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart so the Pharaoh couldn’t let the Israelite people go even if he wanted to.

God certainly specifically does not will us to sin, otherwise He wouldn’t punish those who DO sin, would He? So it stands to reason that we thwart His plans for us every time we sin.

Remember we are talking about an entity that sacrificed himself to himself in order to allow himself not to punish people for doing what he created them to do. So let’s not try to apply logic to God’s behavior.

And besides I expect this is a bit off topic.