“The hour has come .... abandon the practice of Communion standing and in the hand”

[Auntie_M]

I have stayed quite and just listened/read all your arguments.

One stated that such and such would be our future.

One has stated that it is “sacriledge” to take in the hand…

One keeps saying that the Pope wants the tongue cause he had a kneeler put up.

One is badgering another on “What is more religious”

One is worried that we are not eating every little non-visible crumb from the host.

One is saying that those who take on the hand has or will lose the Catholic faith.

Let me put my two cents worth in…

When Jesus instituted the Eucharist, as the Bible teaches, he said “Take and eat” or “take a drink”. Does this suggest that Jesus put the bread on the tongues or HANDED it to the Apostles? As the same with the wine? Think about this…

The Apostles were very ordinary men. Did Jesus tell them"Don’t you drop one molecule!" He only said this is my body which will be given up for you. Jesus knew the Apostles weren’t “educated in table manners”, and just might drop a crumb. But, He didn’t make a big scene out of that possibility, he actually said nothing about it. If it was such a big deal, don’t you think HE would have instructed the Apostles right then?

Was the Apostles being sacariligious? They evidently “took” the bread and wine from Christ.

The Pope has NOT made an official declaration as to what is “his will” is. Someone saw him putting out a kneeler and took it for granted that this is what he wants. Maybe so, but maybe not.
The Pope has stated that NO ONE should be refused the Eucharist because of kneeling or standing, tongue or hand. He was just doing per his own instructions. By making it accessible to kneel, the Pope was showing love to all.

I am really upset when I hear things like, You’ll lose your Catholic faith, or ALL who take on the hand are being irreverent, or don’t have the faith, etc…etc…

I want to know how many of you can actually “SEE the HEARTS” or “KNOW the INTENTIONS” of another, in order to make such
statements as this. This is a shame and disgrace that ANYONE would accuse another fellow Catholic of anything like this.

Would Jesus, himself, tell a person he can’t go to heaven just because he took comunion in the hand? (Not Biblical) But what about those accusing others of non-belief ? (Biblically sinful to judge)

What do you all think.

Is it more sinful to take in the hand rather than the mouth or to judge a fellow christian’s sincerity of faith?

Try showing a little Love…That is what Jesus REALLY taught us. He preached Love.to love another as ourselves.

Isn’t that a part of examination of conscience…(to rethink the 10 commandments and see if you have failed them in any way)

How can one who is to love another as their self, accuse another of non faith or being irreverent.?

 

[saint_rafael]

Just in case this thread is still about how to receive Communion…

If it becomes mandatory to receive on the tongue, then I will cetainly receive Communion that way. But then I will insist on receiving the Body of Christ from a priest whose hands are consecrated. Why should I give up receiving in my unholy hands just so I can receive Communion from the equally unholy hands of a lay minister? If my hands are not good enough to do this, then neither are the hands of any lay minister of the Eucharist!

The lay minister of the Eucharist is an abuse of liturgy.

The Vatican only allowed them if there was no priest at all and should only be considered for use in mission territory.

Lay ministers should not exist because to touch the Sacred Host is the privilege of the ordained.

They should be an extremely rare sight, but instead we usually have about six people at most Masses running around trying to be priests. These lay ministers are really busybodies.

I make sure that if I am at a Novus Ordo Mass, I only recieve from a priest and do not go near a so called lay minister of Communion.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Is the Magisterium leading us to sin by allowing Catholics to accept the Body of Christ by hand?

I am saying the Magisterium is not leading us into sin
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Why after Communion are the vessels PURIFIED and ONLY by a Priest?

The vessels can be purified by a priest, a deacon or an acolyte. Of these three, only the priest has consecrated hands.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I don’t really understand what “Magisterium” means.

Magisterium means the official teaching arm of the Church. It is comprised of the Pope and those bishops in union with him.
It comes from the Latin, "magister" which means teacher.
prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

, death could be days, months, years, or over a deacade away.

Finally, a wise statement. You just described all of this on this forum, with just one sentence. Good Job.

Now how about answering the question as to whether the Pope was committing sin and leading us into sin by giving Communion in the hand when he was here in the states. Was he leading people into sin or not. Be careful how you answer this, as your remaining credibility depends on it.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[I_Believe]

Why is it that when a Roman Catholic speaks with passion on this forum regarding his/her faith in the the Blessed Sacrament, he/she is always sublect to an inquisition complete with pre-determined findings ?

Could someone, anyone, explain to me why someone with an obviously strong faith would have to answer for it ?

 

[tobbias88]

If anything this thread shows how quickly Satan can sow discord even among the extremely pious.

Years ago in Upper Egypt we attended a Sunday Coptic service where the priests distributed Holy Communion as bread in the form of buns which you certainly had to ‘break’ before eating. Impossible to put whole in your mouth. Obviously Jesus didn’t have wafers to give out.

Recently I have changed back to mouth reception because:

1. minute crumbs sticking to my fingers.
2. Anyone’s hands can be unclean.
3. the student who kept the host with evil intent.

This thread is SO reminiscient of the Pharasees upbraiding Jesus & the apostles on the Sabbath. Some folks just love to pick a fight or at least start one.

Lets close this silly silly thread. Do you really think God will ask you about your cultural table- manners?

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Why is it that when a Roman Catholic speaks with passion on this forum regarding his/her faith in the the Blessed Sacrament, he/she is always sublect to an inquisition complete with pre-determined findings ?

Could someone, anyone, explain to me why someone with an obviously strong faith would have to answer for it ?

What we are fighting is misinformation about the reception of the Most Blessed Sacrament being put on the forum by those who are members of or sympathetic to the SSPX. This is not the only thing that engenders strong discussion on this forum with them. This is a group that follows the now deceased archbishop LeFebvre, who was excommunicated by Pope John Paul II. They claim that they have the true faith and that the Roman Catholic Church is in error. They state that Vatican II was wrong and on and on and on. They piously claim they are Catholic, when they are in schism, which they deny.

I hope this answers your question.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[lovesMary]

The lay minister of the Eucharist is an abuse of liturgy.

The Vatican only allowed them if there was no priest at all and should only be considered for use in mission territory.

Lay ministers should not exist because to touch the Sacred Host is the privilege of the ordained.

They should be an extremely rare sight, but instead we usually have about six people at most Masses running around trying to be priests. These lay ministers are really busybodies.

I make sure that if I am at a Novus Ordo Mass, I only recieve from a priest and do not go near a so called lay minister of Communion.

May I touch your robe as you pass by?

 

[pnewton]

… but instead we usually have about six people at most Masses running around trying to be priests. These lay ministers are really busybodies.

Let me pass on some advice to increase the level of charity with which we deal with our fellow man. When referring to people whom we do not know, it is best to prescribe the best motives and not the worst. These lay people are working in accord with the Church’s current discipline. In most cases, they are the backbone of the Church and volunteer in all sorts of ways.

Or to put it another way, do not be so quick to pass out judgment. For the measure with which you judge others, you too will be judged.

 

[pnewton]

Why is it that when a Roman Catholic speaks with passion on this forum regarding his/her faith in the the Blessed Sacrament, he/she is always sublect to an inquisition complete with pre-determined findings ?

Could someone, anyone, explain to me why someone with an obviously strong faith would have to answer for it ?

The Pharisee’s had very strong faith and yet had a lot to answer for. No one here questions passion for the Blessed Sacrament. Most share that passion. What is problematic is passion against one’s brothers and sisters for nothing more than being obedient to the Church. What is problematic is passion against Church authority for actions with which one disagrees.

Making this a pro-Blessed Sacrament issue is not only an unfair straw, it is elitist. It is based in an unspoken assumption that those who are traditionalists love the Blessed Sacrament more that the more liberal Catholics, or even the non-traditionalist conservative Catholics here.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Lay ministers should not exist because to touch the Sacred Host is the privilege of the ordained.

Please correct me if I am wrong. But did you not say on another post that only those with consecrated hands should touch the Eucharist. As a deacon, I am ordained, but a deacons hands are not consecrated. Yet we are ordinary ministers of the Holy Eucharist.

I make sure that if I am at a Novus Ordo Mass, I only recieve from a priest and do not go near a so called lay minister of Communion.

At the last parish I was at, there was a man who would refuse to receive Communion from anyone other than a priest. I call this cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If a priest or deacon were not available, would you receive from an Extraordinary Minister of the Holy Eucharist?
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[MrS]

Originally Posted by I_Believe forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
Why is it that when a Roman Catholic speaks with passion on this forum regarding his/her faith in the the Blessed Sacrament, he/she is always sublect to an inquisition complete with pre-determined findings ?

Could someone, anyone, explain to me why someone with an obviously strong faith would have to answer for it ?

What we are fighting is misinformation about the reception of the Most Blessed Sacrament being put on the forum by those who are members of or sympathetic to the SSPX. This is not the only thing that engenders strong discussion on this forum with them. This is a group that follows the now deceased archbishop LeFebvre, who was excommunicated by Pope John Paul II. They claim that they have the true faith and that the Roman Catholic Church is in error. They state that Vatican II was wrong and on and on and on. They piously claim they are Catholic, when they are in schism, which they deny.

I hope this answers your question.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Deacon Ed,

I started this thread without any, ANY, intention of pitting anyone against another… and certainly not to offer an arena for one or another to make judgments about the intentions of any one who loves one form or another.

The question was rather simple, and certainly sincere. It recognized that passion for the Eucharist can be held in both the EF and the OF… and by those who prefer one, the other, or both… and that perhaps none of us "should to sublect to an inquisition complete with pre-determined findings"

Your answer then fit the mold of the problem…

What we are fighting is misinformation about the reception of the Most Blessed Sacrament being put on the forum by those who are members of or sympathetic to the SSPX.

Really??

It seems to me that misinformation has been presented by all sides… perhaps because passion is sometimes nurtured by ignorance.

I was not so much suprised at your answer. I have disagreed with you in the past on small things… no big deal

But you have, like many others on this thread, decided that the hour has come… again… to just argue about the pros and cons of all reception practices.

The thread was what it was… a topic meant to reflect on the words found in the preface of the book… to revisit and perhaps, perhaps, abandon the practice…

Now perhaps the hour has come to close this thread…

while we wait for the book to be completed in English.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3990372#post3990372

Then we can read for ourselves what seems to be a widely anticipated discussion about what the Church recommends for its faithful…

I hope that thread will be more centered, logical, and civil… but since we are dealing with passions (and Catholics )… I won’t hold my breath.

 

[PrayforMallory]

Do you know how much you sound like every other generation when they were your age? I guess times might change, but people don’t. Just realize that when your idealistic future does not unfold as you imagine, most of us older people have seen that happen over and over.

You’re right about that my friend. My fear is that we will be persecuted wherever we go, especially when we are seniors, because once the baby boomers die, we will be few, scattered, half-knowing our faith, and without any social standing.

Of course, we will have a more traditional Church then. The traditionalists will be the only ones left by that point, I fear.

I know this is going to upset a lot of people on this forum, but I think St. Rafael’s point of view is valid. The Vatican II mode of piety, centered on visible participation and a warped social-justice agenda, doesn’t really mesh well with the personalities of the youth. The traditional way is much more relevant.

Also, I think the advocates of the Novus Ordo on this forum should at least reconsider their stances on the Tridentine Mass. The Tridentine Mass of 2008 is not the Tridentine Mass that people remember. Some of the changes artificially forced into the Novus Ordo have already developed naturally in the Tridentine Mass.

The “Low Mass” that people remember, in which old ladies supposedly said their rosaries, oblivious to what was going on at the altar (I wasn’t around then so I can’t confirm or deny this) is not really present anymore. There are Low Masses at daily Mass, but there is participation even at these. Furthermore most of these Sunday Masses seem to be High Masses, and secondly, Solemn High Masses are weekly events at a lot of parishes.

Furthermore, every Mass I’ve been to has at least as much substantive participation as the Novus Ordo.

Also, Archbishop Lefebvre supported translating the readings, as well as the parts of the Mass that change, into the vernacular. This was actually his suggestion, and I would imagine that this will be the true “Mass of the Future.”

 

[wisdom_3_5]

How does everyone here feel about self-intinction?

I was in the front row and just happened to look up as a man walked up to the EMHC and dipped the Host in the Precious Blood! The EMHC looked pretty annoyed. I remember when I was a child receiving both on the tongue (via intinction).

I wonder how many more people would receive on the tongue if intinction was offered.

 

[PrayforMallory]

You’re right about that my friend. My fear is that we will be persecuted wherever we go, especially when we are seniors, because once the baby boomers die, we will be few, scattered, half-knowing our faith, and without any social standing.

Of course, we will have a more traditional Church then. The traditionalists will be the only ones left by that point, I fear.

I know this is going to upset a lot of people on this forum, but I think St. Rafael’s point of view is valid. The Vatican II mode of piety, centered on visible participation and a warped social-justice agenda, doesn’t really mesh well with the personalities of the youth. The traditional way is much more relevant.

Also, I think the advocates of the Novus Ordo on this forum should at least reconsider their stances on the Tridentine Mass. The Tridentine Mass of 2008 is not the Tridentine Mass that people remember. Some of the changes artificially forced into the Novus Ordo have already developed naturally in the Tridentine Mass.

The “Low Mass” that people remember, in which old ladies supposedly said their rosaries, oblivious to what was going on at the altar (I wasn’t around then so I can’t confirm or deny this) is not really present anymore. There are Low Masses at daily Mass, but there is participation even at these. Furthermore most of these Sunday Masses seem to be High Masses, and secondly, Solemn High Masses are weekly events at a lot of parishes.

Furthermore, every Mass I’ve been to has at least as much substantive participation as the Novus Ordo.

Also, Archbishop Lefebvre supported translating the readings, as well as the parts of the Mass that change, into the vernacular. This was actually his suggestion, and I would imagine that this will be the true “Mass of the Future.”

I shouldn’t have said, “warped,” in regards to the original focus on social justice. In the beginning it was a very good thing. Unfortunately, it seems to have replaced everything else in so-called “progressivist” circles.

 

[MrS]

How does everyone here feel about self-intinction?

I was in the front row and just happened to look up as a man walked up to the EMHC and dipped the Host in the Precious Blood! The EMHC looked pretty annoyed. I remember when I was a child receiving both on the tongue (via intinction).

I wonder how many more people would receive on the tongue if intinction was offered.

It is both foolish and forbidden as any form of self-communicating is forbidden.

However, if the priest was distributing by intinction… it would of course be on the tongue only. In the hand would be out of the question.

The more “traditional” parishes whose priests distribute by intinction use the altar rail, kneeling, on the tongue… period.

.

 

[Auntie_M]

You’re right about that my friend. My fear is that we will be persecuted wherever we go, especially when we are seniors, because once the baby boomers die, we will be few, scattered, half-knowing our faith, and without any social standing.

Of course, we will have a more traditional Church then. The traditionalists will be the only ones left by that point, I fear.

I know this is going to upset a lot of people on this forum, but I think St. Rafael’s point of view is valid. The Vatican II mode of piety, centered on visible participation and a warped social-justice agenda, doesn’t really mesh well with the personalities of the youth. The traditional way is much more relevant.

Also, I think the advocates of the Novus Ordo on this forum should at least reconsider their stances on the Tridentine Mass. The Tridentine Mass of 2008 is not the Tridentine Mass that people remember. Some of the changes artificially forced into the Novus Ordo have already developed naturally in the Tridentine Mass.

The “Low Mass” that people remember, in which old ladies supposedly said their rosaries, oblivious to what was going on at the altar (I wasn’t around then so I can’t confirm or deny this) is not really present anymore. There are Low Masses at daily Mass, but there is participation even at these. Furthermore most of these Sunday Masses seem to be High Masses, and secondly, Solemn High Masses are weekly events at a lot of parishes.

Furthermore, every Mass I’ve been to has at least as much substantive participation as the Novus Ordo.

Also, Archbishop Lefebvre supported translating the readings, as well as the parts of the Mass that change, into the vernacular. This was actually his suggestion, and I would imagine that this will be the true “Mass of the Future.”

Do you mean the “Mass of all times” is really NOT the “Mass of all times”?

 

[CradleCath]

Just in case this thread is still about how to receive Communion…

If it becomes mandatory to receive on the tongue, then I will cetainly receive Communion that way. But then I will insist on receiving the Body of Christ from a priest whose hands are consecrated. Why should I give up receiving in my unholy hands just so I can receive Communion from the equally unholy hands of a lay minister? If my hands are not good enough to do this, then neither are the hands of any lay minister of the Eucharist!/