“The hour has come .... abandon the practice of Communion standing and in the hand”

[EasterJoy]

I really don’t your argument. How does

The priests have a simple responsibility: a zero tolerance policy with regard to disrespectful or inappropriate behavior. Communion is not a right, but a privilege and they get to decide who qualifies.

follow from

If the heart is not the focus then whatever reform is instituted is doomed to dismal failure. Significant change never comes from the outside…

It sounds as if you think a change of heart is going to be brought about by frequent ecclesiastical spankings?

With regards to obedience, we were referring to obedience to the directives of our pastors. We refer to the respect due to those in authority, that’s all. We can discuss all we like, we can let them know what we think, but we must remain respectful to all and obedient to those to whom God has given authority over us.

When my archbishop says that the policy in our archdiocese is “no more reception of Holy Communion in the hand”, I will comply.

 

[mangy_dog]

I really don’t your argument. How does

follow from

It sounds as if you think a change of heart is going to be brought about by frequent ecclesiastical spankings?

With regards to obedience, we were referring to obedience to the directives of our pastors. We refer to the respect due to those in authority, that’s all. We can discuss all we like, we can let them know what we think, but we must remain respectful to all and obedient to those to whom God has given authority over us.

When my archbishop says that the policy in our archdiocese is “no more reception of Holy Communion in the hand”, I will comply.

Ditto.

Gospa Mir!

 

[ethelzguy]

The Ten Commandments are about moral standards, about how to avoid sinning against the moral law. We can’t confuse this with ritual disciplines. I’ve seen an awful lot of people follow rituals perfectly and live horrible lives filled with sin and no respect for God outside of Sunday ritual.

Love of God and Christ in the Eucharist is a heart thing.

True. Many organized crime figures over the decades were know for being “devout Catholics”

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

And here’s the problem with legalistic minds, they think they can regulate people into holiness, and they can’t. Holiness and the reverence for God that comes with it is a fruit, a product of our cooperation with grace given by the Holy Spirit, not following rules, rules and more rules. And yet the legalists will keep trying to accomplish this from the outside inward, it just doesn’t happen that way.

You are correct here as this is precisely what Jesus was preaching against the scribes and pharisees.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Communion in the hand is disrespectful due to the lack of purification of the hands .

Did not Jesus address this when he said its not what goes into a man’s mouth, but what comes out that makes something unclean.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

We have to keep in mind several things.

1. The bishops are the legitimate successors of the Apostles. We do owe them obedience in anything that is not sinful.
2. Communion in the hand is not sinful.
3. Bishops are not your average Catholic. To be a bishop you must be a theologian, they know what they’re talking about and if they err, the Sacred Congregation of the Faith, Congregation of Bishops, Congregation of the Liturgy all serve as oversight organisms to help the bishops. Then there are committees at the national level as well.
4. There are few lay theologians on CAF.
5. As St. John of the Cross said, “If you obey, the responsibility falls on the person in authority, not you, unless you are following sin.”
6. Bishops have not said that you have to receive communion in the hand. They have said that you MAY. If you don’t feel comfortable with it, then don’t do it. But don’t try to make rules for others. That’s the bishop’s role.

JR

Well said JR
Prayers and blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[ethelzguy]

Did not Jesus address this when he said its not what goes into a man’s mouth, but what comes out that makes something unclean.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Ah, the great king’s “X” on Deuteronomy. Beautiful!

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Ah, the great king’s “X” on Deuteronomy. Beautiful!

Jesus was in Deuteronomy???
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[ethelzguy]

Jesus was in Deuteronomy???
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Sorry if I wasn’t clear. One of my non-Catholic friends quoted me Deuteronomy regarding eating from split-hoofed animals, etc. I gave them back that quote from Christ, regarding clean and unclean, in and out of our mouths.

TBL

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Sorry if I wasn’t clear. One of my non-Catholic friends quoted me Deuteronomy regarding eating from split-hoofed animals, etc. I gave them back that quote from Christ, regarding clean and unclean, in and out of our mouths.

TBL

I knew there was a reason, I just honestly, truly, absolutely did not know what it was. It was a good chuckle anyhow.
Prayers and blessings
Deacon ed B

 

[seekerz]

I really don’t your argument. How does

follow from

It sounds as if you think a change of heart is going to be brought about by frequent ecclesiastical spankings?

With regards to obedience, we were referring to obedience to the directives of our pastors. We refer to the respect due to those in authority, that’s all. We can discuss all we like, we can let them know what we think, but we must remain respectful to all and obedient to those to whom God has given authority over us.

When my archbishop says that the policy in our archdiocese is “no more reception of Holy Communion in the hand”, I will comply.

I’m simply saying that the priests already have the authority to instruct/correct inappropriate behavior on a case by case basis as and when it happens. For example, not allowing the person to turn walk away with the Host in hand as was reported in another thread. So the argument of lack of respect for the Eucharist being the reason we need to abandon Communion in the hand seems to hold no water to me. We don’t need to change a practice to correct an attitude - we need to single out offenders for correction and teaching when an actual offense occurs.

 

[JReducation]

I’m simply saying that the priests already have the authority to instruct/correct inappropriate behavior on a case by case basis as and when it happens. For example, not allowing the person to turn walk away with the Host in hand as was reported in another thread. So the argument of lack of respect for the Eucharist being the reason we need to abandon Communion in the hand seems to hold no water to me. We don’t need to change a practice to correct an attitude - we need to single out offenders for correction and teaching when an actual offense occurs.

I agree that those who do not treat the Eucharist with due reverence need education and guidance.

But you made a mistake in your other post. You said that the Eucharist is a privilege and not a right.

Canon law says that it is the right of every baptized Catholic to receive the Eucharist, not a privilege.

JR

 

[seekerz]

Canon law says that it is the right of every baptized Catholic to receive the Eucharist, not a privilege.

JR

How then can Communion be refused to some e.g. politicians who publicly advocate abortion, divorced people?

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m simply saying that the priests already have the authority to instruct/correct inappropriate behavior on a case by case basis as and when it happens. For example, not allowing the person to turn walk away with the Host in hand as was reported in another thread. So the argument of lack of respect for the Eucharist being the reason we need to abandon Communion in the hand seems to hold no water to me. We don’t need to change a practice to correct an attitude - we need to single out offenders for correction and teaching when an actual offense occurs.

OK, I get it. You mean “our pastors have the means to deal with disrespect, means which will work if applied, while changing the allowed mode won’t do much, if the pastors don’t deal with abuses in the ways already available.”

I can get on board with that… although it is a bit of a trick to get the bell on that cat’s neck!

 

[JReducation]

How then can Communion be refused to some e.g. politicians who publicly advocate abortion, divorced people?

Canon law says that communion can be denied to anyone who is not in communion with the Church. When a person is in a state of sin that separates him from the Church, he or she forfeits that right.

Be careful with divorced Catholics. The problem is not divorced Catholics. The problem is adultery. If you are divorced and celibate, you can receive communion.

There have been exceptions made by Pope Benedict, but he refused to explain it. He did give communion to Tony Blair when he was still Anglican and said that it was an act of charity. At John Paul II’s funeral, Ratzinger did give communion to Brother Roger of Taize, the Superior General of the Brothers of Taize. Brother Roger was Lutheran. The rationale was that even though Brother Roger was Lutheran, he was (he’s dead now) the head of an approved religious order. When Blair converted to the Cathlic Church, the Pope welcomed him, but the Church did not require that he recant his positions on abortion or same-sex marriage. The Vatican’s explanation was that Balir has some developing to do in the faith.

Basically, this is Pope Benedict’s way of telling the laity to mind their own business.

There is a point in Canon Law that allows non-Catholics who believe in the Eucharist to receive communion as long as it is approved by an Ordinary.

In the case of a diocese the Ordinary is the Bishop. In the case of a religious house, the Ordinary is the Major Religious Superior.

I hope this is clearer.

JR

 

[EasterJoy]

Basically, this is Pope Benedict’s way of telling the laity to mind their own business.

Can he do that?!?

 

[bobzills]

There is a point in Canon Law that allows non-Catholics who believe in the Eucharist to receive communion as long as it is approved by an Ordinary.

How can someone be a sincere Protestant and believe in the Eucharist at the same time? And what about confession?

 

[elt1956]

How then can Communion be refused to some e.g. politicians who publicly advocate abortion, divorced people?

I think Pope Benedict XVI answered that question as it has been answered many times here on this thread.

 

[EasterJoy]

How can someone be a sincere Protestant and believe in the Eucharist at the same time? And what about confession?

Certainly they can be both sincere Christians and yet formally Protestant and believe all the Catholic Church teaches about the Eucharist.

As for sin, the Eucharist wipes away venial sin.

 

[bobzills]

Certainly they can be both sincere Christians and yet formally Protestant and believe all the Catholic Church teaches about the Eucharist.

As for sin, the Eucharist wipes away venial sin.

I thought that Protestants generally beleive that the Eucharist is a symbol and nothing more. Further, many Protestants maintain heretical beliefs, such as for example, that artificial birth control, used by a married couple, is not a mortal sin.