1 Tim 5:20 & Eph. 4:26

[glilly1]

Here in St. Paul’s own words, in almost all translations of the Bible…

International Standard Version (©2008)
This is a trustworthy saying that deserves complete acceptance: To this world Messiah came, sinful people to reclaim. I am the worst of them.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
This is a statement that can be trusted and deserves complete acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, and I am the foremost sinner.

King James Bible
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

American King James Version
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

American Standard Version
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief:

Bible in Basic English
It is a true saying, in which all may put their faith, that Christ Jesus came into the world to give salvation to sinners, of whom I am the chief:

Douay-Rheims Bible
A faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into this world to save sinners, of whom I am the chief.

Darby Bible Translation
Faithful is the word, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the first.

English Revised Version
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief:

Webster’s Bible Translation
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Weymouth New Testament
Faithful is the saying, and deserving of universal acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; among whom I stand foremost.

World English Bible
The saying is faithful and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Young’s Literal Translation
stedfast is the word, and of all acceptation worthy, that Christ Jesus came to the world to save sinners – first of whom I am;

Notice, he doesn’t say “I WAS the Cheif sinner.” he says “I AM the Cheif.” A true sign of holiness is being able to have a deep understanding of our own human failings and constantly turn to Jesus for reconcilliation by the means Christ established in the “Church, the pillar and foundation of truth” -(Timothy 3:16)

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

What does it mean to be a born again Christian? The classic passage from the Bible that answers this question is John 3:1-21. The Lord Jesus Christ is talking to Nicodemus, a prominent Pharisee and member of the Sanhedrin (a ruler of the Jews). Nicodemus had come to Jesus at night. Nicodemus had questions to ask Jesus.

As Jesus talked with Nicodemus, He said, “’I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.’ ‘How can a man be born when he is old?’ Nicodemus asked. ‘Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!’ Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again’” (John 3:3-7).

The phrase “born again” literally means “born from above.” Nicodemus had a real need. He needed a change of his heart—a spiritual transformation. New birth, being born again, is an act of God whereby eternal life is imparted to the person who believes (2 Corinthians 5:17; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1-4, 18). John 1:12,13 indicates that “born again” also carries the idea “to become children of God” through trust in the name of Jesus Christ.

The question logically comes, “Why does a person need to be born again?” The Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2:1 says, “And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins…” (NKJV). To the Romans in Romans 3:23, the Apostle wrote, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” So, a person needs to be born again in order to have their sins forgiven and have a relationship with God.

How does that come to be? Ephesians 2:8-9 states, “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.” When one is “saved,” he/she has been born again, spiritually renewed, and is now a child of God by right of new birth. Trusting in Jesus Christ, the One who paid the penalty of sin when He died on the cross, is what it means to be “born again” spiritually. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation: the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17).

If you have never trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior, will you consider the prompting of the Holy Spirit as He speaks to your heart? You need to be born again. Will you pray the prayer of repentance and become a new creation in Christ today? “Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God” (John 1:12-13).

If you want to accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and be born again, here is a sample prayer. Remember, saying this prayer or any other prayer will not save you. It is only trusting in Christ that can save you from sin. This prayer is simply a way to express to God your faith in Him and thank Him for providing for your salvation. “God, I know that I have sinned against you and am deserving of punishment. But Jesus Christ took the punishment that I deserve so that through faith in Him I could be forgiven. I place my trust in You for salvation. Thank You for Your wonderful grace and forgiveness—the gift of eternal life! Amen!”

Have you made a decision for Christ because of what you have read here? If so, please click on the “I have accepted Christ today” button below.

thechristian,

Actually I wasn’t looking to be witnessed to. I am already a born again Catholic. However, if you have an opinion on whether or not we continue to sin after we come to Christ I am all ears.

God bless

 

[thechristian]

The condition of your heart thru faith justifies your works weather they a worthy of surviving the test of fire and recieving a reward in the end.

God loves you…God bless

 

[Church_Militant]

Quite the opposite. I’ve been through all these spiritual and theological gymnastics and I want no more of it. So I have become Catholic, and I’ll stay Catholic thank you!

Goes for me too! I’m already born again according to the New Testament and following Christ while carrying my cross, just like Our Lord Himself said.
Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mark 8:34 And calling the multitude together with his disciples, he said to them: If any man will follow me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Luke 9:23 And he said to all: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

 

[Church_Militant]

The condition of your heart thru faith justifies your works weather they a worthy of surviving the test of fire and recieving a reward in the end.

God loves you…God bless

Really? So then Our Lord Jesus Christ didn’t mean what He said here, (Matthew 16 :27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works.

And again,

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them; and they were judged every one according to their works.

Revelation 22:12 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to everyman according to his works.

That doesn’t even touch of Matthew 25:31-46

31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in: 36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me. 41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. 44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me. 46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

 

[howarja]

Don’t forget
**
John 15:

1
I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine grower.
2
He takes away every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and everyone that does he prunes so that it bears more fruit.
3
You are already pruned because of the word that I spoke to you.
4
Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me.
5
I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing.
6
4 Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned.
7
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.
8
By this is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit and become my disciples.
9
As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love.
10
If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.
11
"I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.
12
This is my commandment: love one another as I love you.
13
5 No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.
14
You are my friends if you do what I command you.
15
I no longer call you slaves, because a slave does not know what his master is doing. I have called you friends, 6 because I have told you everything I have heard from my Father.
16
It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.
17
This I command you: love one another.**

What’s being stated here? That to remain in Christ we must bear fruit. Well, what is fruit? Fruit = love =Works, right?

Like wise,
**
Jame 20

14
6 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.”
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.**

We know

**Ephisians 2:

8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;
9
it is not from works, so no one may boast.
10
For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.**

All the Catholics out there tell me if you agree with this.

People usually like to quote 8 and 9 from Ephisians 2, but some how miss 10. I don’t get it. It states clearly that we are “created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance”. This seems to me that it states that works are not optional.

So anyway…
Would the Catholics in the house agree with…

We are, by Grace, saved through faith, but according to James if we do not do the works God has prepared for us then our faith is meaningless and dead. Works do not give faith, but faith makes us want to preform works. If we do not preform works then we are not doing what God wants us to do (or we don’t have any faith) thus we are off the mark of God… Wouldn’t this mean that we are sinning since we are off the mark of God, by not preforming the works he prepared for us and which we were created to preform? (For those that don’t know – sinning, in Greek, came from archers who missed their targets. Thus sinning means " to miss the mark" ) Too me (and several priest that I’ve talked to) according to John 15, if we don’t don’t bear fruit (preform works), then we are not remaining in Christ. If we are not remaining in Christ then we will be cut off, thrown on the ground to wither in the sun, and be burned. :-/ So, how can we remain in Christ? Well, he tells us, a few versus late in John 15. Love one another. True love is laying down ones life for a friend ( A few more versus later in John 15). Laying down ones life is a work of love (I don’t see how any one could argue with that). Loving takes work (we all know that). So, to remain in Christ we must love, thus to remain in Christ we must do works (love - which encompasses a lot of works), which we were created to preform, through our faith in Christ.

In conclusion. We are by Grace, Saved through faith. And if we have faith then we’ll preform works, but conversely if we are not preforming works (prepared in advance by God) then we don’t have faith. Thus, works are an inadvertent, yet necessary product of faith.

 

[no2masters4life]

Jer.17

[9] The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately corrupt;
who can understand it?

**

The human heart is unreliable, which is why you must remember what been written and spoken to you by the apostles and be obedient. You need to be obedient from the heart to the standard of the teaching, aka, the Church.

1Cor.11

[2] I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.

**

Rom.6

[16] Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
[17] But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,

 

[losh14]

Are these verses teaching that Christians will cease sinning? I have come across a protestant that believes that we actually become perfect here on earth. That “true Christians” actually cease sinning and that those who do fall back into sin are false converts. 1 Tim 5:20 and Eph. 4:26 are the verses that has been used to support this belief.

Anyone ever heard of this?

God bless

Good question. The answer is absolutely not. Sin is a fact of the human condition in our fallen state. It is something we inherited from Adam and which will dog us until our death.

Let’s look at these passages alone, and I’ll use KJV because that might be what your buddy prefers:

1 Tim 5:20 - “Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.”

The assumption is that there will be sin even in the members of the Church, and that sin should be punished by public rebuke (if not anything more).

Let’s look at the next passage in context: Eph 4: 22-32
“That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.”

This is a laundry list of “thou shalt not” sins combined with commands for changed behavior. This is similar to juxtaposing the Commandments with the Beatitudes.
If there were no capability of sinning (offending God) why bother putting this list together?
Shouldn’t it otherwise read: “Be ye angry, if ye sin, it is of little matter for thy life is in Christ. If thou speaks in corruption, thy tongue is not to be feared for the Blood of Christ sets thee free to do as thou wilt”.

Tell your friend that just because you’re saved doesn’t mean Jesus gives you a carte blanché to do whatever you like - sin still offends God, even if one who is “saved” does the offending. Maybe your friend needs to move on from the “I’m saved!” to the “Now what?”

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Good question. The answer is absolutely not. Sin is a fact of the human condition in our fallen state. It is something we inherited from Adam and which will dog us until our death.

Let’s look at these passages alone, and I’ll use KJV because that might be what your buddy prefers:

1 Tim 5:20 - “Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.”

The assumption is that there will be sin even in the members of the Church, and that sin should be punished by public rebuke (if not anything more).

Let’s look at the next passage in context: Eph 4: 22-32
“That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.”

This is a laundry list of “thou shalt not” sins combined with commands for changed behavior. This is similar to juxtaposing the Commandments with the Beatitudes.
If there were no capability of sinning (offending God) why bother putting this list together?
Shouldn’t it otherwise read: “Be ye angry, if ye sin, it is of little matter for thy life is in Christ. If thou speaks in corruption, thy tongue is not to be feared for the Blood of Christ sets thee free to do as thou wilt”.

Tell your friend that just because you’re saved doesn’t mean Jesus gives you a carte blanché to do whatever you like - sin still offends God, even if one who is “saved” does the offending. Maybe your friend needs to move on from the “I’m saved!” to the “Now what?”

Thanks losh,

I do have to correct one misunderstanding though. This individual is not saying that if we sin after coming to a “personal relationship with Christ” that the sin doesn’t offend God. He is saying that when we come to Christ we will stop sinning period, become holy, perfect and blameless and therefore will no longer offend God. This is why I brought up the irony with their hatred of the belief of Mary never sinninig. They want to hold to this self-righteousness and yet deny that Mary could have ever (through the Grace of God) lived a sinless life.

They use this belief to justify their rebellion against the Catholic Church (and all churches, Catholic or Protestant, for that matter) that since there is sin in the Church (the sex scandal is their favorite example, but they also brought the need for confession as proof) it must not be the true church. They have settled for a small 12 person house cult because they believe all “Christian” churches are corrupt with sin and are apostate.

Anyways those Christians who still sin are “false converts” and “apostates”. Therefore the practice of confession to them is scandal and not for the reasons we usually think a Protestant believes it is scandal but because there should be no need for forgiveness (i.e. confessing) after coming to Christ because there is no where in scritpure that specifically states; “you will continue to sin after coming to Christ”. This is sola scriptura ran to its logical conclussion. They will simply say, “show me in the Bible where it says true converts will continue to sin. Not where the Bible says apostate, false christians will continue to sin, but those who are truly Christian”

These are not you garden variety evengelical Protestants. They deny OSAS as a doctrine of the devil and deny “faith alone” and instead subscribe to faith and works. Works being evangalization and holding to the commandments “perfectly”.

I know, I know it make me :whacky: too.

I am wondering though, if the “wages of sin is death” and these people believe that we become “new creations” and therefore no longer have any sin in them and will never sin again… are they expecting to never die

God bless

 

[thechristian]

church miltant: What those verses you mentioned are saying - if your works are no good
your no good and if your are works are no good then you recieve no reward.

what matthew 25: 31-46: theses verese are used to seperate the goats from the sheep - the goats are un-belivers or ones that thought they were belivers but in there hearts they really weren’t. The sheep are the belivers the ones that recieved there reward of salvation.

The heart of a saved christian is not decitful when its is under the influence of holy spirit.

peace and blessings

 

[Church_Militant]

church miltant: What those verses you mentioned are saying - if your works are no good
your no good and if your are works are no good then you recieve no reward.

what matthew 25: 31-46: theses verese are used to seperate the goats from the sheep - the goats are un-belivers or ones that thought they were belivers but in there hearts they really weren’t. The sheep are the belivers the ones that recieved there reward of salvation.

The heart of a saved christian is not decitful when its is under the influence of holy spirit.

peace and blessings

Sorry, but that isn’t what the Word of God says. Read what is there, not what you or someone else is telling you that those passages mean.

You and many other n-Cs around here are always saying that “scripture interprets scripture”. Well, if that is true then you are wrong and the Catholic Church and I are correct.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

church miltant: What those verses you mentioned are saying - if your works are no good
your no good and if your are works are no good then you recieve no reward.

what matthew 25: 31-46: theses verese are used to seperate the goats from the sheep - the goats are un-belivers or ones that thought they were belivers but in there hearts they really weren’t. The sheep are the belivers the ones that recieved there reward of salvation.

The heart of a saved christian is not decitful when its is under the influence of holy spirit.

peace and blessings

Sorry thechristian, I will go with the Holy Scriptures on this one and therefore reject your interpretation as a “tradition of men”.

Now do you have an opinion on the original question asked?

God bless you.

 

[thechristian]

matthew 16- 27: if has done bad things his reward is something bad and if he has done good things his reward is something good…

revelation 20:13: everyone will be judge according to his works…this means your works will be tested to see if they are Goods works or not…then you will be judges according that outcome.

revelation 22:12: he is comming quickly with his reward to us…and that is salvation according to what we have done with him.

matthew 25: 31-46: seperation of belivers and unbleivers…beliver (sheep) sit at his right hand (which is always a good place to sit it seems like) and un-belivers (goats)sit at his
left (which seems not a very good place to be).

This is not my interpentation…but revealed to me thur holy spirit.

 

[no2masters4life]

2Pet.1

[20] First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation…

Rom.12

[3] For by the grace given to me** I bid every one among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think**, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith which God has assigned him.

Jer.23

[4] I will set shepherds over them who will care for them, and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall any be missing, says the LORD.

Prov.28

[26] He who trusts in his own mind is a fool;
but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.

3John.1

[9] I have written something to the church; but Diot’rephes, who likes to put himself first, does not acknowledge my authority.

Catholics are taught to trust in the Lord and His Church. He has given us shepherds to make sure we’re doing His will and keeping the faith. We do not think more highly than we ought to about our interpretive abilities because God loves His Church. We are obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which we were committed. When The Church tells us what a passage means, they have the authority, and they are right. When someone else does, see below.

**

2Pet.2

[1] But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

1John.4

[1] Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

When someone speaks for God outside the Church, don’t believe them without giving them a test. The first test is whether their viewpoints mirror what the Apostles wrote and spoke to us. If their hearts are hard to a reproof of sound doctrine, they are not inspired by the Holy Spirit.

 

[thechristian]

I agree with all the scripture you mentioned…in order for the those scriptures to apply to me, you have to prove thru scripture that this interpentation is wrong! can you do that?
What does the holy spirit tell you the correct interpentation is?

God loves you…God bless

 

[no2masters4life]

I don’t have the power to read into the scripture or interpret it without the guiding body of the Church to steer me true. Perhaps a Priest monitoring this forum can go that step with us.

 

[thechristian]

Every christian has the ability…with faith in christ and some help from the holy spirit and spirit filled elder or pastor, it can be done and is done all the time. Just trust in God he will not lead you astray. That’s what he want’s your total trust and dependence on him in all spirtural matters.

God loves you…God bless

 

[erikhnh]

Every christian has the ability…with faith in christ and some help from the holy spirit and spirit filled elder or pastor, it can be done and is done all the time. Just trust in God he will not lead you astray. That’s what he want’s your total trust and dependence on him in all spirtural matters.

God loves you…God bless

Then how can you justify the 25,000 30,000 different churches all claiming that they receive their inspiration from the Holy Spirit, and each claiming theirs is the correct interpretation,yet disagreeing with other interpretations? Is the Holy Spirit confused? Or purposely leading them astray? That logic is somewhat flawed. The Holy Spirit is not a spirit of confusion.

 

[no2masters4life]

God has placed men in authority to be obeyed on matters of spiritual doctrine. The Lord did this for Israel. Christ did this again at Pentecost. The Church carries the message to this day. Not all men are given authority, and the scriptures indicate why this is true.

You are free to worship God as you see fit, but I will worship him in His way, and be obedient to the ones he has placed over me, and be blameless on the last day.

 

[jcrichton]

I read here all the time but rarely post, but I think it’s interesting that some of those once saved protestants don’t seem to realize that Paul is talking to people that were ALREADY IN the church. So that would assume that they were ALREADY SAVED! So why would he have the need to say “As for those that persist in sin…” ! Also in Eph 4:26, Also talking to ALREADY SAVED church members, “Be angry, but do not sin…” They ARE capable of sinning after they are Christians.

…that’s why it is so difficult to communicate with most non-Catholic Christians–even when they presume to be sola Scriputura followers they tend to reject Scriptures when they speak against their own personal/group interpretation… so no matter how many times St. Paul or any other writer cautions those in the Faith to not presume that they have attained “auto-Salvation” or that they are “always saved” they keep on deceiving themselves and teach others this error.

Interestingly enough Jesus Himself warned that even those who would perform miracles, cast out evil spirits, healed the sick, and preached in His Name would not automatically be Saved or attain Salvation… “not all who call Me Lord, Lord, will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven… do my Father’s Will!”

Maran atha!

Angel