10 & 11 year old believing in Santa and the Tooth Fairy

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Hello once again my friends! The kids were taught by parents to believe that Santa brings gifts and that the Tooth Fairy leaves money under the pillows for teeth. One is in 5th grade and the other in Middle School and they are spending Christmas with us. How does one handle this? I never taught my child Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy and by entering Kindergarten he fully understood the fantasies of these things. The girl in 5th grade really believes in Santa and said her dad told her so, so she is expecting Santa this year. I have experienced with other friends and family that when kids get old enough to know they totally understand. Isn’t this going on too long? I am not comfortable in participating in this. The girl is developing and almost ready to start her cycle, the son is in middle school now.
 
Hello once again my friends! The kids were taught by parents to believe that Santa brings gifts and that the Tooth Fairy leaves money under the pillows for teeth. One is in 5th grade and the other in Middle School and they are spending Christmas with us. How does one handle this? I never taught my child Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy and by entering Kindergarten he fully understood the fantasies of these things. The girl in 5th grade really believes in Santa and said her dad told her so, so she is expecting Santa this year. I have experienced with other friends and family that when kids get old enough to know they totally understand. Isn’t this going on too long? I am not comfortable in participating in this. The girl is developing and almost ready to start her cycle, the son is in middle school now.
Why are they spending Christmas with you? I assume you are relatives. Are you grandparents?

My suggestion is that you put this right back to the parents. I would talk to them and tell them that the kids can’t stay with you for Christmas unless they are informed and made to understand by their parents that there is no Santa (other than St. Nicholas) or tooth fairy.

I would tell the parents that you absolutely refuse to participate in lying to children who are this old, that it’s not normal and you want no part of it.

I know this sounds harsh, but honestly, I think this is a very strange family, and I don’t think you should have to participate in lying to them, and I don’t think you should be put into a situation where you might “slip up” and say or do something that would destroy the chldren’s beliefs and then you will be blamed by the parents and the children for just being “normal.”

I don’t blame the parents for trying to keep their children innocent and unworldly, but I think it’s very weird to keep children believing in a fairy tale. It’s almost…abusive, because it’s refusing to allow the children to develop normally.
 
Do these kids have any learning or developmental disabilities? Sometimes parents of children with special needs try to preserve their childhood longer than they should.
 
Do these kids have any learning or developmental disabilities? Sometimes parents of children with special needs try to preserve their childhood longer than they should.
As a parent of a child with Down Syndrome I take exception to that statement.

It would be more accurate to say “Sometimes parents of children with special needs try to preserve their childhood longer because that is developmentally appropriate.”
 
My experience concerning these things is that the kids who believe longer than their other little friends know which side their bread is buttered on. The kids who believe a long time aren’t the stupid ones. They don’t care who they impress and they are too smart to pay the price of jumping into cynicism before they have to. Others are very sensitive, and take great delight in these little customs far later in life than their peers do. You aren’t being asked to “participate” so much as you’re being asked not to be a spoilsport. What exactly is the harm in that? How does it hurt you, exactly? I’m hard-pressed to think of how this would harm you. Really. Fifty years from now, you’ll be remembered as the person who just had to spoil the fun under the auspices of “doing the right thing”.

The rest of my experience says that getting into this question is getting between the bear and her cubs. Do not go there. These people are not teaching their kids to worship the devil. Stay out of it…but also do not be surprised if you get a knowing wink from one of those two kids! You’d have to be a real Scrooge to spoil this racket! :rolleyes:

Also, consider that Thérèse of Lisieux was indulged by her older sisters with Christmas customs usually reserved for much younger children until she was 14. It is a famous story; you ought to look it up some time. Less than 18 months later, she was a Carmelite. Insert yourself into that story when Thérèse was 10, and you’re not exactly a hero. The parents of these children you know may know things about their children that you don’t. Any harm you do by taking this decision upon yourself cannot be undone. The harm you do by saying nothing is…what? Please accept that possibility, and leave them alone. It won’t hurt you. Butting in when your opinion was not solicited might really harm your relationship with these folks, though.
 
Why are they spending Christmas with you? I assume you are relatives. Are you grandparents?

My suggestion is that you put this right back to the parents. I would talk to them and tell them that the kids can’t stay with you for Christmas unless they are informed and made to understand by their parents that there is no Santa (other than St. Nicholas) or tooth fairy.

I would tell the parents that you absolutely refuse to participate in lying to children who are this old, that it’s not normal and you want no part of it.

I know this sounds harsh, but honestly, I think this is a very strange family, and I don’t think you should have to participate in lying to them, and I don’t think you should be put into a situation where you might “slip up” and say or do something that would destroy the chldren’s beliefs and then you will be blamed by the parents and the children for just being “normal.”

I don’t blame the parents for trying to keep their children innocent and unworldly, but I think it’s very weird to keep children believing in a fairy tale. It’s almost…abusive, because it’s refusing to allow the children to develop normally.
You’re so afraid you might spoil this by accident that you’d insist this little tradition be spoiled as a condition of staying with you? To do otherwise is to participate in child abuse? Really?!? Do you know someone whose personality was crippled because they believed in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy for too long? Harmed for life because when they figured out Santa, it was by some relative’s innocent accidental slip-up?

Let me guess: No one else here is a big fan of The Miracle on 34th Street, hmmm? Certainly nobody seems to remember actually believing in Santa, that much seems clear. Well…bah, humbug!!! :rolleyes:
 
It may be that their belief is little more than convenient playing-along. I’m in my mid 30s and I’d “believe” in Santa Claus if he kepy bringing me presents!

My eldest daughter - 8yrs - plays along even though she knows it’s us.

I’d also “believe” in the tooth fairy, but hopefully my teeth won’t fall out any time soon.
 
Children should be taught to believe in these things in the first place. They are superstitions and as Catholics we are not suppossed to beleive in superstitions so where is the logic in teaching young children to believe in them?
 
My husband and I decided that we should tell our children about Santa and other mythical visitors, sometime before first communion. The way we see it, they are just about to make a huge jump in maturity and their own walk with God. As parents, it’s a chance for us to be the ones to share that while Santa is fun to believe in, and represents some fantastic Christian qualities, a life filled with faith in God blows Santa clear out of the water. It is nice for a parent to be the one to share that, I think a child will respect their parents for telling them the truth. And feel proud to be more ‘grown up.’ I never would want them to ask. ‘if Santa isn’t real, does that mean God isn’t?’
Yes, 10-11 yr olds can definately handle this, it is a disservice to them to continue that lie. Kindly share your thoughts with the parents, but it is their decision to make, not yours.
 
Children should be taught to believe in these things in the first place. They are superstitions and as Catholics we are not suppossed to beleive in superstitions so where is the logic in teaching young children to believe in them?
I’ve never taught my children to believe in them, but in a modern Western society it’s ubiquitous and children take these things for granted before a parent can really interject. I think it’s quite harmless to play along until they’re old enough to work it out.
 
Easterjoy, perhaps you should take a step back for a minute. No-one is saying that its wrong to have playful santaclause/toothfairy traditions within a family, what they are saying is that they do not want to be complicit in lying and deceiving others. Now, to be honest, I find it very hard to understand why anyone wold have a problem with this.

I grew up knowing about the myths of santa and the tooth fairy, but that didn’t mean that we didn’t have a TON of fun with santa and toothfairy traditions. We all knew, but it was this “big secret” that we knew. Someone would let slip that it was ou mother getting up at night and the rest of us would shoot back, ‘don’t you mean santa?’ while giving each other knowing nods and glances. It was great!! But seriously, I would not have appreciated being lied to by my parents about this and then discovering later on that they had deceived me. Playing along with fun traditions is one thing, helping a parent deceive their children is another entirely. It is wrong to lie to/deceive anyone, but it is especially wrong for a parent to knowingly deceive their child, and no one should be called a spoilsport or a grinch for not wanting to be involved in this unacceptable act of deception. :nope:
 
Easterjoy, perhaps you should take a step back for a minute. No-one is saying that its wrong to have playful santaclause/toothfairy traditions within a family, what they are saying is that they do not want to be complicit in lying and deceiving others. Now, to be honest, I find it very hard to understand why anyone wold have a problem with this.

I grew up knowing about the myths of santa and the tooth fairy, but that didn’t mean that we didn’t have a TON of fun with santa and toothfairy traditions. We all knew, but it was this “big secret” that we knew. Someone would let slip that it was ou mother getting up at night and the rest of us would shoot back, ‘don’t you mean santa?’ while giving each other knowing nods and glances. It was great!! But seriously, I would not have appreciated being lied to by my parents about this and then discovering later on that they had deceived me. Playing along with fun traditions is one thing, helping a parent deceive their children is another entirely. It is wrong to lie to/deceive anyone, but it is especially wrong for a parent to knowingly deceive their child, and no one should be called a spoilsport or a grinch for not wanting to be involved in this unacceptable act of deception. :nope:
You are saying that against all odds these kids really think there is no Santa Claus, but by the deception of their parents–who, unlike our parents, presumably scotch-taped it into their children’s Catechism or something–the children went back to believing it. You’re saying that you know they’ve asked and that they’ve been lied to, and not that they are telling you that they want to be left to believe what they want to believe, which is what I think that little girl was telling the OP.

Sure, in the case that you think such a girl is gullible beyond her years because of the great trust she puts in her parents (which is not impossible), bluntly ask these parents if either one has ever lied to either of their kids when asked point blank if this family mythology was really true. They shouldn’t lie to their kids if they ask for the truth, and you should make it clear that you will not lie if you are asked whether this is the truth, because it has to be presumed that the child who actually asks (rather than the child who declares) is the child who isn’t confident enough to make the leap past doubt herself and actually wants to be told.

I am saying, though, that this is one area where we have to assume that the child who does not ask does not want to be told. If the child finds out when she is 14, like St. Thérèse did, it is entirely plausible to say, “I knew when you wondered, you’d ask, or when you wanted the pretending to end, you’d say so, because generally speaking, those who do not speak up do not want to have the fun spoiled.”

That is the absolute truth. I defend my stance because St. Thérèse thought it was her sisters who were being kind to her by extending her “belief” far into her adolescence, while it was her father who was being unkind to her by brusquely blurting out the baldfaced truth because, for crying out loud she was 14 years old!! She’s been declared a Doctor of the Church and she was herself the “victim” of this “deception”, so I think she knew whereof she spoke in matters of the morals of how to handle the myths invented to delight children. (Have we mentioned that when the overly-sensitive little Thérèse first overheard her father’s impatient remark about being glad that he was seeing this quaint tradition for the last time, the 14 year old’s first reaction was to burst into tears? She was not crying because she had been lied to, but because of her sensitivity about learning that her father thought her a baby for continuing to go along with this tradition.)

I don’t think my mother ever told me “there is no Santa Claus.” In our family, you came to realize that when the package said, “From Santa”, it meant that the giver wanted to remain anonymous, in the tradition of St. Nicholas. As for the Tooth Fairy, when a child first hears that they need to get to work because “the Dishwashing Fairy has quit”, I think they figure it out. The day the Tooth Fairy is uncovered is not a sad day because their trust is dashed, but because a shed tooth no longer turns their pillow into an ATM.

On the point about being asked…it is entirely possible that an older child will ask an adult other than their parent about this. You see, even if they are on the fence about whether this is the truth or a put-on for their benefit, they can sense that the parent is enjoying this whole thing. A lot of kids don’t want to disappoint a parent who is obviously enjoying their belief. It is not unusual for a parent and child to exchange gifts that say “from Santa” all the way into adulthood without either ever coming out and speaking The Truth! Sure, maybe you want to satisfy your own sense of the nature of things, but that doesn’t mean you want to spoil Mom and Dad’s fun.
 
Ok, calm down Easterjoy. I can see that this has touched a nerve, you are normally much more careful in how you approach issues here.
You are saying that against all odds these kids really think there is no Santa Claus, but by the deception of their parents–who, unlike our parents, presumably scotch-taped it into their children’s Catechism or something–the children went back to believing it. You’re saying that you know they’ve asked and that they’ve been lied to, and not that they are telling you that they want to be left to believe what they want to believe, which is what I think that little girl was telling you.
No, I’m really not saying any of that. My point was that your reaction to the OP seemed a little harsh given that the OP’s question was “How do I handle this situation without participating in a lie/deception?”
Sure, in the case that you think the girl is gullible beyond her years because of the great trust she puts in her parents (which is not impossible), bluntly ask these parents if either one has ever lied to either of their kids when asked point blank if this family mythology was really true. They shouldn’t lie to their kids if they ask for the truth, and you should make it clear that you will not lie if you are asked whether this is the truth, because it has to be presumed that the child who actually asks (rather than the child who declares) is the child who isn’t confident enough to make the leap past doubt herself and actually wants to be told.
You are right to bring up that there is a difference between deliberately lying to your children and allowing them to be deceived, though many people are still very uncomfortable with the latter, and I would say understandably so.
I am saying, though, that this is one area where we have to assume that the child who does not ask does not want to be told. If the child finds out when she is 14, like St. Thérèse did, it is entirely plausible to say, “I knew when you wondered, you’d ask, or when you wanted the pretending to end, you’d say so, because generally speaking, those who do not speak up do not want to have the fun spoiled.”

That is the absolute truth. I defend my stance because St. Thérèse thought it was her sisters who were being kind to her by extending her “belief” far into her adolescence, while it was her father who was being unkind to her by brusquely blurting out the baldfaced truth because, for crying out loud she was 14 years old!! She’s been declared a Doctor of the Church and she was herself the “victim” of this “deception”, so I think she knew whereof she spoke in matters of the morals of handling how to handle the myths invented to delight children.
I get it there are conflicting opinions. St. Thomas, another Doctor of the Church would have considered this sort of thing sinful. My point is that while I understand where you are coming from with the idea of allowing a passive deception, I also understand where the OP is coming from and it is not an unreasonable opinion. If the OP thinks more along the line of St. Thomas then simply telling her to get over it and not be a scrooge will not be helpful. Doing something you believe is sinful, even if it is not actually sinful in itself, becomes sinful because of your conviction that it is sinful (and so your willingness to engage in sinful behaviour).
I don’t think my mother ever told me “there is no Santa Claus.” In our family, you came to realize that when the package said, “From Santa”, it meant that the giver wanted to remain anonymous, in the tradition of St. Nicholas. As for the Tooth Fairy, when a child first hears that they need to get to work because “the Dishwashing Fairy has quit”, I think they figure it out. The day the Tooth Fairy is uncovered is not a sad day because their trust is dashed, but because a shed tooth no longer turns their pillow into an ATM.
My mother never sat me down and told me that either. She might have with my older siblings I guess, I don’t know, but I certainly never believed it was true and certainly none of my younger siblings did, and yet it was a wonderful, beuatiful, enjoyable tradition to take part in. In fact, I found it all the more fun precisely because we knew it was all just a tradition. Again, the reason I bring this up is to help show that being against deceiving your children does not mean you end up being a scrooge or deprive them of enjoyable family traditions and I stand by what I said in that it was overly harsh to label the OP as such for wanting to follow her conscience.
 
PS When our kids asked me if all presents from Santa Claus had really been from us, I refused to tell them. My answer, and the rule in our house, is that “anyone who writes ‘From Santa’ on a gift tag does it in order to have the joy of giving anonymously and to give the joy of getting a gift from an anonymous donor, which is itself a special treat. That is the perogative of the gift-giver. It is not allowed to spoil that.”
 
I think kids suspect there is no Santa or Tooth Fairy for a while, but they don’t say anything because if they don’t play along they don’t get presents or money.

My great-grandmother (a devout Catholic her entire life) would always call it the “Santa Claus Game”. That way the kids can play along and have fun, but she never had to lie to anyone.
 
Ok, calm down Easterjoy. I can see that this has touched a nerve, you are normally much more careful in how you approach issues here.

No, I’m really not saying any of that. My point was that your reaction to the OP seemed a little harsh given that the OP’s question was “How do I handle this situation without participating in a lie/deception?”

You are right to bring up that there is a difference between deliberately lying to your children and allowing them to be deceived, though many people are still very uncomfortable with the latter, and I would say understandably so.

I get it there are conflicting opinions. St. Thomas, another Doctor of the Church would have considered this sort of thing sinful. My point is that while I understand where you are coming from with the idea of allowing a passive deception, I also understand where the OP is coming from and it is not an unreasonable opinion. If the OP thinks more along the line of St. Thomas then simply telling her to get over it and not be a scrooge will not be helpful. Doing something you believe is sinful, even if it is not actually sinful in itself, becomes sinful because of your conviction that it is sinful (and so your willingness to engage in sinful behaviour).

My mother never sat me down and told me that either. She might have with my older siblings I guess, I don’t know, but I certainly never believed it was true and certainly none of my younger siblings did, and yet it was a wonderful, beuatiful, enjoyable tradition to take part in. In fact, I found it all the more fun precisely because we knew it was all just a tradition. Again, the reason I bring this up is to help show that being against decceiving your children does not mean you end up being a scrooge or deprive them of enjoyable family traditions and I stand by what I said in that it was overly harsh to label the OP as such for wanting to follow her conscience.
That’s just it… the OP is not the parent of these children. As I said, I think it is OK to ask the parents if they’ve ever lied to the kids when the kids have asked. Yes, it is OK to warn the parents, “OK, but if I’m asked point-blank, I’m telling”, and yes, if the parent insists that this host tell anything but the truth if asked, the parent is asking the host to lie. I am not suggesting that only a Scrooge or a Grinch would fail to lie to the kid. I do not mean to say that at all. (Well, let’s be true to the story of the Grinch…when Cindy Lu Who asked him what he was doing in her house dressed up like Santa Claus, he did lie to the kid, but that was only to save his plan to ruin her Christmas.) I also think it entirely fair to warn the parents that there won’t be any particular effort made to keep up this pretense in front of 10 and 11 year olds…not because it would deceive them, but because having an adult other than their parent pretend that they are so gullible might insult them!!

The thing that is getting my dander up is the contention that it is sinful and child abuse to let a 10 or 11 year old choose not to ask whether there is really a Santa Claus or a Tooth Fairy. Yes, I think that accusing the parents of child abuse and breaking the 8th Commandment in this case is akin to saying “Every idiot who goes about with ‘Merry Christmas’ on his lips should be boiled with his own pudding and buried with a stake of holly through his heart!” Letting this family alone about this is not complicity in a deception. It just isn’t.

I stand by that, and I think I have the backing of a saint who knew first-hand whereof she spoke. Unless St. Thomas held his position because he felt deceived to have been told any such thing, I don’t think we can assume that his general principle can be assumed to apply over the specific case on which another Doctor of the Church has spoken. OTOH, that’s just my opinion. I like my defense of it, but I’ll not imply it is the unassailable truth.
 
I bought a book with the history of Santa Clause or Saint Ni-clause’. He was born in Asia Minor. He was a wealthy person, but would sneak his gifts to those in need. Like leave gold coins in the stockings of children who were going to be sold into slavery to pay for their father’s debts! (back then people left wet shoes & socks by the fire to dry) He provided a dowery for a young women, so she could marry, and start a family. Sometimes he left money for a widow to feed her family. By all reports jolly ole St. Nick loved children & laughed a lot. Father Nicholas was persecuted, and thrown in jail for his faith, where he was starved & grew very thin. When new leadership came to the area he was released, and rejoined his community. Where he ate his fill, and rounded out. He then became a Bishop, hense the red suit, and pointy hat.

I told my children that St. Nicholas was such a generous, jolly, holy person that many wanted to be like him. That is why they dress up like him to this day. My kids always believed in Saint Nicholas, and were touched by his many acts of charity.
 
I bought a book with the history of Santa Clause or Saint Ni-clause’. He was born in Asia Minor. He was a wealthy person, but would sneak his gifts to those in need. Like leave gold coins in the stockings of children who were going to be sold into slavery to pay for their father’s debts! (back then people left wet shoes & socks by the fire to dry) He provided a dowery for a young women, so she could marry, and start a family. Sometimes he left money for a widow to feed her family. By all reports jolly ole St. Nick loved children & laughed a lot. Father Nicholas was persecuted, and thrown in jail for his faith, where he was starved & grew very thin. When new leadership came to the area he was released, and rejoined his community. Where he ate his fill, and rounded out. He then became a Bishop, hense the red suit, and pointy hat.

I told my children that St. Nicholas was such a generous, jolly, holy person that many wanted to be like him. That is why they dress up like him to this day. We still believe in Saint Nicholas, and are touched by his many acts of charity.
 
That’s just it… the OP is not the parent of these children. As I said, I think it is OK to ask the parents if they’ve ever lied to the kids when the kids have asked. Yes, it is OK to warn the parents, “OK, but if I’m asked point-blank, I’m telling”, and yes, if the parent insists that this host tell anything but the truth if asked, the parent is asking the host to lie. I am not suggesting that only a Scrooge or a Grinch would fail to lie to the kid. I do not mean to say that at all. (Well, let’s be true to the story of the Grinch…when Cindy Lu Who asked him what he was doing in her house dressed up like Santa Claus, he did lie to the kid, but that was only to save his plan to ruin her Christmas.) I also think it entirely fair to warn the parents that there won’t be any particular effort made to keep up this pretense in front of 10 and 11 year olds…not because it would deceive them, but because having an adult other than their parent pretend that they are so gullible might insult them!!

The thing that is getting my dander up is the contention that it is sinful and child abuse to let a 10 or 11 year old choose not to ask whether there is really a Santa Claus or a Tooth Fairy. Yes, I think that accusing the parents of child abuse and breaking the 8th Commandment in this case is akin to saying “Every idiot who goes about with ‘Merry Christmas’ on his lips should be boiled with his own pudding and buried with a stake of holly through his heart!” Letting this family alone about this is not complicity in a deception. It just isn’t.

I stand by that, and I think I have the backing of a saint who knew first-hand whereof she spoke. Unless St. Thomas held his position because he felt deceived to have been told any such thing, I don’t think we can assume that his general principle can be assumed to apply over the specific case on which another Doctor of the Church has spoken. OTOH, that’s just my opinion. I like my defense of it, but I’ll not imply it is the unassailable truth.
Thats more understandable, but to be honest, your first post looked like it was aimed at the OP and it came across as being an overly-harsh reaction to the OP’s question. That is why I replied as I did. I definitely agree that using that calling the santa game ‘abusive’ is going too far, but to be honest I entirely understand why some parents refuse to participate in any way shape or form in misleading other kids. I wouldn’t be that way, but it is understandable.

As to whether St.Thomas would contradict St. Therese… St Thomas argued for his position in a completely universal way using syllogistic logic, as usual. He never specifically brought up the issue of Santa Claus, but his position as argued and explained in the Summa would clearly find such a deception sinful. My point in bringing up St. Thomas is not to claim that St Therese was wrong, but rather to help show you that the idea that participating in such a deception is sinful is at least just as legitimate an opinion as otherwise. Which is why I can understand where Cat was coming from in her advice to not allow this family over if it means participating in the deception. Again, I know I wouldn’t be that strict about it, but I can certainly understand where Cat is coming from with that advice.

To be honest, I think your advice to talk to the parents about this concern and find out what their exact policy is great advice. As you said, it is quite possible that the kids already know and everyone is just playing along, which would certainly make handling the whole situation much easier. 🙂
 
For the record, I was scandalized at the age of 8 when I discovered (I was not told; I had to investigate.) that my parents had been lying to me about Santa and defaming the character of those that told me otherwise. It made it difficult to take what they said on faith from that point on. I made sure that my sister knew from a young age that Santa was just pretend, and she has been none the worse for it.
 
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