10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down

[tabycat]

And again, let’s look at the function of cars vs. the function of guns.

It is not the function of a car to kill people. Its function is to get people safely from one place to another.

It is the function of a gun to kill people.

If you don’t kill the person you are shooting at, you are using the gun incorrectly.

However, if you do get from point A to point B in your car without killing anyone, then you have used your car correctly.

What I mean to say is, when people are killed with guns, this is not an “unexpected, unwanted negative consequence” - rather, this is the expected and desirable outcome of using a gun. Again - if someone doesn’t end up dead, then you have used the gun incorrectly.

I have been around guns most of my life and I have never used any gun to shot at another person, I do not consider killing someone with a gun expected and desirable outcome of the gun; for me the desirable end would be the person doing the wrong would either not do it or stop doing the wrong with out the gun being fired. As for cars, I have been almost hit by people driving cars aimed at me because I was walking down the street. I hope and pray that you will never have to live with the grief that comes with killing someone with your car or having to tell someone that their parent/child/sibling has been killed by a driver in a car. BTW, I consider all deaths as ‘unwanted nagative consequence’. :knight2:

 

[Rich_C]

Right.

The difference is still that when you obtain a gun, you have someone in mind that you mean to kill (who is also someone’s loved one, even if they deserve killing, in your opinion) whereas when you buy a car, you aren’t thinking of killing anyone; you are thinking of getting safely from place to place.

You phrase it as if all guns are obtained for premediated murders. Poor choice of words?

But if I do buy a gun for self defense, I hope it functions properly.

What’s your point again?

 

[po18guy]

When did this thread become a gun debate? The thread has to with educating people on the increased risks that go along with gun ownership.

LOVE!

Where are the threads on locking up:

Prescription medications?

Household cleaners?

Kitchen knives?

Power tools?

Electrical outlets?

or on:

Bathtub safety?

Ascending and descending stairs?

What about heart-healthy diets? Last I checked, the “Big H” was still the leading killer.

Is the saving of life the most important thing, or is it just guns?

Just wondering, that’s all.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Where are the threads on locking up:

Prescription medications?

Household cleaners?

Kitchen knives?

Power tools?

Electrical outlets?

or on:

Bathtub safety?

Ascending and descending stairs?

What about heart-healthy diets? Last I checked, the “Big H” was still the leading killer.

Is the saving of life the most important thing, or is it just guns?

Just wondering, that’s all.

You’re welcome to start new threads, but this one was on the myths associated with guns.

LOVE!

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

Uh, what kind of food do you suppose that Jesus, a Jew consumed at Passover.

Due to the fact that I too use my intellect and good sense I got myself out of a kidnap attempt several years ago. I would not have hesitated to use it if it got that far, however.

Good Evening Anne: A 33 year old Jew at Passover would also have been married for 20 years, but in this way and many others, Jesus was not an ordinary Jew. The Church Jesus founded doesn’t exclude crippled or deformed people from entering the temples, as did the Jewish faith of the time. That said, there is no record of what Jesus ate. He stayed close with John the Baptist. Many serious bible scholars think John the Baptist may have been an Essene. Essenes did not eat meat. I do not presume to know what Jesus ate either way though, and I did not cite my reasons for being a vegetarian based on anything in the bible. Insofar as I’m aware, being a vegetarian is not counter-indicated by Christian philosophy, nor does it break anyone’s rules. It’s simply Fridays in Lent all year for me.

Did you base your decision to pack a firearm on anything Jesus did? Does carrying a gun have an analog in any Lenten observance in way not eating meat does? Why do you trouble yourself with what I do?

Thanks
Hary

 

[LongingSoul]

Not uncommon when people judge by external appearances alone.

As other have stated. they are tools, nothing more. The UK has as interesting soccer culture of hooliganism. People have gotten trampled and injured for simply going to a game. But that does not stop me from kicking a ball around with my daughter either.

Should I not teach my daughter soccer for fear that she might get trampled at a game by some unruly hooligans?

Should I point wagging fingers at the UK and their dangerous ‘soccer culture’ and be glad that it doesn’t happen here in the US?

Why is teaching a child a sport so upsetting?

You are missing the point though in trying to protect the ‘tool’. That’s like saying most massacres occur in schools and universities so we should stop educating our kids or at least stop sending them to school.

Soccer hooliganism is totally and utterly an alcohol problem and that’s where the restrictions and controls need (and are being in spite of the alcohol industries protests of innocence) to be targeted. Face the true issue. When alcohol and guns become a necessary thing with the sort of status of a sacred rite of passage for soccer enjoyment or personal security… then of course intemperence and abuse will inevitably become ingrained in the culture. We have to see things for what they are and not give them more esteem than is their due because then as a culture, you become ‘owned’ by them.

 

[jmcrae]

You phrase it as if all guns are obtained for premediated murders. Poor choice of words?

But if I do buy a gun for self defense, I hope it functions properly.

What’s your point again?

My point is, if you don’t intend to kill someone, then you don’t need a gun.

 

[jmcrae]

You phrase it as if all guns are obtained for premediated murders. Poor choice of words?

But if I do buy a gun for self defense, I hope it functions properly.

I hope so, too. And I hope if you get it out, that you don’t just wave it around and get it taken away from you, and get shot with it.

I hope you aim straight and kill your target with the first bullet, because once the gun is in view, either you or him is going to die.

 

[tabycat]

My point is, if you don’t intend to kill someone, then you don’t need a gun.

Are you telling those who use guns to protect their livestock from wolves and pretators that they should use what? Most of us today are not very good with a sling shot like David the shepherd boy was. How about the people in Alaska who hunt to feed their families? Shoud they starve because guns are just ‘to kill someone’? Maybe they should use spears, bows-and-arrows or crossbow-and-bolts because guns are just ‘to kill someone’.

 

[tabycat]

I hope so, too. And I hope if you get it out, that you don’t just wave it around and get it taken away from you, and get shot with it.

I hope you aim straight and kill your target with the first bullet, because once the gun is in view, either you or him is going to die.

If your’e not waving it and aroiud and act like know how to use it and willing to us it, he/she may decide to leave before you do anything.

 

[Brendan]

My point is, if you don’t intend to kill someone, then you don’t need a gun.

Really? It’s an Olympic sport. Are you telling me that all those Gold medalists purchased their guns with the intent to kill someone?

I’ve purchased guns for historical reenactments, I’ve purchased them to break flying clay Frisbees, I’ve purchased them to teach Scouts how to use them to punch holes in paper.

All of that is done without the intent of killing anything.

 

[Brendan]

I
I hope you aim straight and kill your target with the first bullet, because once the gun is in view, either you or him is going to die.

Per a 1997 US Dept of Justice study, 98% of the time a gun is used to stop a crime, it’s not even fired. The attacker either flees, or is held at gunpoint until police arrive

So given that, how do you justify your statement.

 

[jmcrae]

If your’e not waving it and aroiud and act like know how to use it and willing to us it, he/she may decide to leave before you do anything.

… and then return with ten friends, armed to the teeth. No, you’d best shoot to kill before he leaves.

 

[Brendan]

… and then return with ten friends, armed to the teeth. No, you’d best shoot to kill before he leaves.

What you have just advocated it actually illegal ( and immoral); shooting someone fleeing the scene.

And if a cop tried what you just suggested, they would get yanked from the force and probably charged.

 

[jmcrae]

What you have just advocated it actually illegal ( and immoral); shooting someone fleeing the scene.

And if a cop tried what you just suggested, they would get yanked from the force and probably charged.

You can’t show a gun and then not use it, because then you are putting yourself and your family at risk - he might run, or he might come over and take your gun, and shoot you with it, and then your family. I’m not saying stand there and wait for him to turn around and run away.

 

[Deus_tecum]

Moderator: Please close thread. It has become obtuse.

 

[Brendan]

You can’t show a gun and then not use it, because then you are putting yourself and your family at risk - he might run, or he might come over and take your gun, and shoot you with it, and then your family. I’m not saying stand there and wait for him to turn around and run away.

Actually, police do that most of the time. No police officer, and likewise no responsible gun owner, feels any obligation to pull the trigger just because they have drawn their gun. Why should they?

What the police are trained to do, and what is a responsible practice, is to shoot when it is necessary to stop the attack. If the attacker stops when you bring out a gun, then there is no justification to shoot. A police officer would not.

If the attacker makes a move towards you, or moves in a way that is threating, one is justified in shooting. If the attacker flees, then it is actually a felony to shoot.

And that corresponds to the Catholic understanding of the use of deadly force.

Can I ask where you got your information? Have you had this conversation with an Alberta Provincial Police or RCMP officers?

 

[DMC12]

I would like to remember to everyone who might be getting upset do your think God is happy with you getting angry about this?maybe it would be wiser for us to leave this to those who can manage this without losing their temper.

 

[YADA]

Right.

The difference is still that when you obtain a gun, you have someone in mind that you mean to kill (who is also someone’s loved one, even if they deserve killing, in your opinion) whereas when you buy a car, you aren’t thinking of killing anyone; you are thinking of getting safely from place to place.

… What? Seriously … I purchase a firearm and you - all knowing - the all seeing jmcrae - state in no uncertain terms that in doing so I have an intent to kill someone … :bigyikes:

Well … you sir know nothing … you do not know me, you know absolutely not one iota of information about my life, my intentions nor the purpose to which I will use that firearm …

You are ignorant … and that is not meant as an insult - you obviously do not know nor do you care to understand why ownership of firearms is important to people … especially a free people

And for the record - I own many firearms, come from a family where those who own and use firearms out number those that do not but where all respect the 2nd Amendment …and - oh yes - I have never murdered anyone … I have never purchased a gun to kill anyone and will never murder anyone … though - if necessary would defend myself, my family and my home [which would not be murder - but self defense]

 

[tabycat]

… and then return with ten friends, armed to the teeth. No, you’d best shoot to kill before he leaves.

You mean you would not call the police as soon as the perps left? Take from someone who has dealt with more then one breakin/robbery in her life time, as soon as you can get to a phone call 911.