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chazcheh
Guest
I stumbled across an islamic website and it had a section labeled ‘10 reasons why Jesus is not God’
Your thoughts…
Your thoughts…
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Kouyate42
Guest
Islamic understanding of the Bible is to say the least, very limited and most of the evidence I’ve heard for the claims that Jesus Himself said he wasn’t God is based on the usual cherry-picking of quotes out of context and misreading passages.
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arabic_catholic
Guest
very true , when I was ignorant of the bible and Christianity , I used to think that muslims debater are heroes , now I view them as clowns and unhonest people
see this is a good video showing how muslim shaikhs spread error about Jesus
youtube.com/watch?v=Mf8VJDvj18M&feature=related
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traillius
Guest
Jesus said " I and the Father are one. " If you are one with the Father, you are the Father. Since God the Father is God, being one with the Father means you are one with God. And if you are one with God, you are God. Therefore, either the muslims must consider Jesus a liar, or else admit that Jesus is God.
meltzerboy
New member
It is interesting that this Islamic website uses both the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament to deny the divinity of Jesus since, at the same time, Islam claims the biblical scriptures have been contaminated and the Qur’an is not based on them. Further, the website cites the Oral Law of Judaism and Maimonides to falsify Jesus as G-d. Since when, I wonder, does Islam believe in Judaism’s Oral Law? You can’t have it both ways. If you use the Hebrew Bible, including the Torah, as well as the Talmud and the Gospels, to disprove Jesus’ divinity, you must place some credibility in them. On the other hand, if you believe they are not valid, you cannot use them as the source of your argument against Jesus’ divinity.
As a side note, there are 26 reasons why Judaism does not believe Jesus is G-d. However, none of the 10 reasons this website states, except for the one proposed by Maimonides, is included. The Jewish argument is not based on the New Testament since it would be illogical to use something Judaism does not believe to be divinely inspired as the source of its criticism.
A large portion of our beliefs–whether we are Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist–is based on faith more than on reason. Many of us look for intellectual justification, evidence, support, and growth of our faith in terms of prophecies, miracles, commentaries by biblical scholars, philosophical arguments; however, in the final analysis, either you have faith or you do not.
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arabic_catholic
Guest
The problem is Muslims hold a fabrication book called (( The Quran )) , so even if you proved for them that Jesus is God , they will end up doing one of two things , 1- try to stick with a verses and take it out of context to deny Jesus divinity , or 2-- to say the gospel was corrupted . so as long as they believe that the Quran is God own word , they will continue with their agenda and play games .
Jesus is the giver of life , and he always work with his father because this is a trinity God
Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does
John 5:19
For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
John 5:21
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Kouyate42
Guest
What I find particularly interesting is that in many English-language books and debates on Qur’an, the Bible is often quoted for arguments SUPPORTING Islam. Seems that Islamic scholars choose what they wish of the Bible.
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VeritasLuxMea
Guest
On the other hand, in Mark 10:18, Jesus says,
“And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.”
(shivers the NASB translation is brutal.)
In any event, Jesus disputes the idea that he is God in this passage. Unless you want to take it out of context…
Could any of you respond to the 10 points? So far I only see 1 point addressed and there’s been multiple replies.
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traillius
Guest
The man doesn’t think Jesus is God, so there is nothing to dispute. Jesus knows that as far as the man is concerned, he is calling a man good. If the man acknowledged Jesus’ divinity, Jesus would not have argued about the man calling him good.
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VeritasLuxMea
Guest
Ah, so you think that Jesus is trying to trick him into admitting that Jesus is God? That’s remotely plausible at least, but not any more so than Jesus denying his divinity.
Look, we know that some of the gospel writers did not believe Jesus was divine. So there is no surprise if we find that claim in the gospels…
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Swiss_Guy
Guest
Well, this shows that the man recognizes Christ is God by calling him Good. Jesus asks him why he calls him good because only God is good, and he wants the man to understand the he himself is God.On the other hand, in Mark 10:18, Jesus says,
“And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.”
(shivers the NASB translation is brutal.)
In any event, Jesus disputes the idea that he is God in this passage. Unless you want to take it out of context…
Could any of you respond to the 10 points? So far I only see 1 point addressed and there’s been multiple replies.
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Trebor135
Guest
The existence of any precise number of Jewish arguments against the divinity of Jesus puzzles me, since Judaism has no central teaching authority as in Catholicism which could put together such a case in an official document. Where can one find this list?
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traillius
Guest
Jesus isn’t trying to trick the man. He is just playing by the rules the man’s perspective set.
But either Jesus is God and thus good. or Jesus is a man, and therefore not good. Jesus in another passage says he is one with the father, and thus one with God, ergo Jesus is God.
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VeritasLuxMea
Guest
Yes that’s an alternate explanation.
One of the things I like about Catholicism is the fact that we do not have to take the Bible literally, word for word.
We can recognize that the Bible writers (and Church fathers) disagreed about important aspects of the faith, but unlike some Protestants, that needn’t undermine the faith, as we have tradition to rely upon as well.
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Trebor135
Guest
What positive evidence do you have to bring forward for this statement?
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traillius
Guest
Maybe in the beginning of His minstry, or at certain low points, they failed to believe. However, at the time of writing the gospels, the writers clearly understood he is God.
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Leegal
Guest
Islam does not believe in a Trinity. For a Muslim, the concept is blasphemy. I only read the first few, but the first dispute can be answered in that Islam does not believe in the Trinity. We do.
Of the second, that Jesus Christ never proclaimed his divinity – I can think right now of 3 references in the Bible where he did. Without research: 1) when he remained at the Temple and told Mary and Joseph “Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I would be in the house of my father?” 2) The incident with the money changes where He declares the temple “My House” and 3) the incident where the Pharisees tried to trick Jesus into either sedition or as being hypocritical with the presentatiion of the coin. And Jesus responded: “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.” Jesus was a master a doctrinal debate.
As with most of the Bible, Jesus spoke in parables. He rarely answered questions directly, choosing to answer questions with question and have people think rather than be fed an answer.
That Islam does not “get” this does not mean that Jesus was not God, not diviine or never said He was.
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Swiss_Guy
Guest
1, Christ didn’t know everything in his human knowledge/will. He “grew in wisdom” (somewhere in the gospels). of course, in his divine knowledge/will he knew everything. It shows that Christ wasn’t sent to reveal everything.
- Sure he did. But all of the verses in the New Testament that have Jesus saying he is God they claim that he isn’t really saying he is God. They twist the translations to fit their own ideology, like JW’s.
- Because Christ hadn’t become man in David’s time, so there was no man any one could truly trust. This is taken way too literally anyway, and they are stretching it to fit their own agenda.
- What’s the problem? all the power given to Christ to do in his human nature was given from God.
- Sent to preach to a certain people. Then died for mankind. And told disciples to preach to mankind. This is just a wierd attempt to refute the divinity of Christ.
- Yeah, God the Father could’ve saved Jesus. Jesus could’ve saved himself by calling legions of angels to protect him, but he didn’t. This site obviously doesn’t understand the sacrifice of Christ on the cross in the Christian sense. so what they are trying to prove in the way they are trying is irrelevant.
- Um, they even said that Peter admitted Jesus was the Christ and Son of the Living God. It was the people who didn’t follow Jesus who didn’t think he was God. Of course, Muslims probably don’t understand that we refer to Christ as the only-begotten Son of God from all eternity, and he wasn’t made his son in any one point in time.
- er, Thomas in John proclaimed that Jesus was his Lord and God. Christ didn’t ever say to stop worshipping Him. And I will worship both the Father and the Son (and the Holy Spirit). This shows the site doesn’t understand the Trinity.
- Um, Christ became man so that we might have eternal life and be born of God. Without his sacrifice, our sin is not atoned for. They aren’t even refuting the incarnation; they are just saying it’s blasphemy without any real proof.
- So this whole time they are using the Scriptures to disprove Christianity, and then insult those very Scriptures by saying that God comes from incest? Plus, this also shows that they misunderstand the incarnation; Christ was God who became man, and didn’t become God by being born of the Virgin.
meltzerboy
New member
You are correct: there is no central teaching authority in Judaism, although some Rabbis’ beliefs are more authoritative and respected than others. There is little dogma in Judaism but there are a core set of principles that (almost) all Jews believe. I’m referring to Asher Norman’s book “Twenty-six reasons why Jews don’t believe in Jesus,” parts of which are on the Internet. It is certainly not an official document. I find a few of his reasons weak or just plain wrong, others quite strong, and still others debatable.
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Leegal
Guest
Can I ask, and with all due respect … I found the 26 reasons (not the book), and the site immediately speaks of Jews not intermarrying? I understand this. Did any of this arise in response to the “Jews for Jesus” movement that was so prevalent here (in NYC anyway) a number of years ago.
I worked with Orthodox Jews who actively worked to stop this “Jews for Jesus” movement, seeing it as an attempt to destroy Judaisim. It was notable that when one spoke with anyone from the “Jews for Jesus” movement, rarely (if at all) were any of them originally Jews who had converted from Judaisim into the “Jews for Jesus” movement or to Christianity. I, too, came to believe the movement was an agenda.
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