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At_Trent
Guest
I’m going into lurk mode for the show.
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archangel04
Guest
Very good, but we must not forget that these “liberals” have schooled many others and have yet to reach influential ranks. Let us pray that thse poor souls who where not tought properly may see the light.
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challam2010
Guest
Thanks for that – I hadn’t read any real hate speech in a few days and missed the refreshing invective.
No wonder ALL Catholics are being lumped in with radical right-wing evangelicals.
According to that poorly written and despicable blog, nothing good has happened since the 1960’s – which completely negates anything and everything in every parish across the world since that time.
There have been a LOT of people born and baptized Catholic in those 50 years and that’s a LOT of negation.
I find it difficult to equate that blog with Jesus’ commands to love our neighbor, particularly when the “neighbors” being attacked are fellow Catholics.
No wonder ALL Catholics are being lumped in with radical right-wing evangelicals.
According to that poorly written and despicable blog, nothing good has happened since the 1960’s – which completely negates anything and everything in every parish across the world since that time.
There have been a LOT of people born and baptized Catholic in those 50 years and that’s a LOT of negation.
I find it difficult to equate that blog with Jesus’ commands to love our neighbor, particularly when the “neighbors” being attacked are fellow Catholics.
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nickybr38
Guest
Haha. This made me think of RCIA last night. Our guest speaker declared that; the songs are the best part of Mass!
And another lady piped in that she prefers the happy, upbeat music that makes her want to dance at Mass.
Heh… Anyway, I’m going into lurk mode too. I’m curious to see what people say about this article.
And another lady piped in that she prefers the happy, upbeat music that makes her want to dance at Mass.
Heh… Anyway, I’m going into lurk mode too. I’m curious to see what people say about this article.
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corsair
Guest
So it took us over 60 years to get into this mess and it will take at least that long to get out of it.
Voris’s video’s a great and I agree with most of what he says.
Voris’s video’s a great and I agree with most of what he says.
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VetA
Guest
I’m going into lurk mode for the show.
at Trent this would be the beginning lol
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archangel04
Guest
Oh, did your feelings get hurt? I find it so funny how people always use that defence, “Jesus said to love one another” and they equate that to mushy sugar coating teachings and lame music. I am 25 and the shift that the Church is taking is more than welcomed by many many younger generations.
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archangel04
Guest
Lol I guess your guest speaker forgot about a particular moment called transubstantiation, oh well. You should have told the lady that there are protestant churches down the road that do that kind of stuff, and I am sure she would be more than welcomed there, but after you show her the documents about liturgical dancing.Haha. This made me think of RCIA last night. Our guest speaker declared that; the songs are the best part of Mass!
And another lady piped in that she prefers the happy, upbeat music that makes her want to dance at Mass.
Heh… Anyway, I’m going into lurk mode too. I’m curious to see what people say about this article.
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hartleymartin
Guest
Hmmm… I will make some notes upon that:
1.) It doesn’t claim that Vatican II was a heresy. The sad fact is that a lot of things were done “in the spirit of Vatican II”, but show clearly that most people never read the documents and have no idea what it was really about.
2.) I suspect a lot of people hi-jacked the church to end their own agendas, such as religious orders taking on a social-justice or a environmental platform rather than their real primary purpose.
3.) There were a lot of books published with bad theology, and bad theological arguments and a lot of erroneous conclusions. I’ve got a book which I stop reading after the introduction, it’s about Catholics and Sex, and shows clearly that the author doesn’t know the teachings of the church on the matter.
4.) True, just true.
5.) Unfortunately too many seminaries became liberal, producing liberal priests. However, there are other issues neglected here. For example, it was believed by psychologists (the “scientific community”) that people with sexually deviant behaviours (homosexuality and paedophilia) could be “cured” through regular counselling.
6.) Some people try to claim Mary Makillop as a liberal saint because of her insistance on the self-government of her order, but this wasn’t because she was being a rebel or going against church authority. It was for the practical reason that it enabled the sisters to move and more easily to set up new schools, without tying down sisters to a particular diocese.
7.) It’s true that there is a huge traditionalist revival going on in the church, especially with young people who’ve seen straight through liturgical abuse and poor theology.
8.) A bit harsh, but it is true that the folk-song style music that was popularised, and the followed up by sacro-pop is tacky. It’s part of the reason that I gave up with music during mass and I now opt to altar-serve, doing my best to observe the relevant sections of the GIRM and canon law (though, I’m not well-read when it comes to canon law)
9.) The 70’s are over… Deo Gratias!
10.) I am seriously concerned at how people treat priests and the structure of the church as largely irrelevant and that somehow the church is the laity and what they want. The church administers the sacraments which are our major source of grace. Without this grace, we have an increasingly difficult road to salvation, which many more will fall away from.
I do believe that we’re starting to see the end of the “spirit of Vatican II”. Those churches and diocese with liberalised beliefs and teachings are slowly dying away, whilst orders that have remained true to their traditions are flourishing.
What we must guard against is any form of arrogance which may lead us to despise our brothers and sisters in Christ. They too are loved by God, even thought they’ve gotten some things seriously wrong. Do not deride, but instruct them and help them to understand what the true faith is all about.
We could also end up making a serious mistake such as the “True Catholic Church” group which appointed their own “Pope” after deciding that Vatican II was heretical and that Benedict XVI is not the true successor of Peter.
1.) It doesn’t claim that Vatican II was a heresy. The sad fact is that a lot of things were done “in the spirit of Vatican II”, but show clearly that most people never read the documents and have no idea what it was really about.
2.) I suspect a lot of people hi-jacked the church to end their own agendas, such as religious orders taking on a social-justice or a environmental platform rather than their real primary purpose.
3.) There were a lot of books published with bad theology, and bad theological arguments and a lot of erroneous conclusions. I’ve got a book which I stop reading after the introduction, it’s about Catholics and Sex, and shows clearly that the author doesn’t know the teachings of the church on the matter.
4.) True, just true.
5.) Unfortunately too many seminaries became liberal, producing liberal priests. However, there are other issues neglected here. For example, it was believed by psychologists (the “scientific community”) that people with sexually deviant behaviours (homosexuality and paedophilia) could be “cured” through regular counselling.
6.) Some people try to claim Mary Makillop as a liberal saint because of her insistance on the self-government of her order, but this wasn’t because she was being a rebel or going against church authority. It was for the practical reason that it enabled the sisters to move and more easily to set up new schools, without tying down sisters to a particular diocese.
7.) It’s true that there is a huge traditionalist revival going on in the church, especially with young people who’ve seen straight through liturgical abuse and poor theology.
8.) A bit harsh, but it is true that the folk-song style music that was popularised, and the followed up by sacro-pop is tacky. It’s part of the reason that I gave up with music during mass and I now opt to altar-serve, doing my best to observe the relevant sections of the GIRM and canon law (though, I’m not well-read when it comes to canon law)
9.) The 70’s are over… Deo Gratias!
10.) I am seriously concerned at how people treat priests and the structure of the church as largely irrelevant and that somehow the church is the laity and what they want. The church administers the sacraments which are our major source of grace. Without this grace, we have an increasingly difficult road to salvation, which many more will fall away from.
I do believe that we’re starting to see the end of the “spirit of Vatican II”. Those churches and diocese with liberalised beliefs and teachings are slowly dying away, whilst orders that have remained true to their traditions are flourishing.
What we must guard against is any form of arrogance which may lead us to despise our brothers and sisters in Christ. They too are loved by God, even thought they’ve gotten some things seriously wrong. Do not deride, but instruct them and help them to understand what the true faith is all about.
We could also end up making a serious mistake such as the “True Catholic Church” group which appointed their own “Pope” after deciding that Vatican II was heretical and that Benedict XVI is not the true successor of Peter.
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At_Trent
Guest
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I don’t mean to take sides here but oftentimes I feel that all these proclamations of the Church heading one way or the other really is a perspective from people who are in this bubble of Traditionalism. While there are indeed good changes coming, when I read it in these forums it seems that its exaggerated a bit. Fact is most Catholics are unaware of whats going on here nor are interested in it. I’m not on the side that doesn’t want more reverent Masses, but I do wonder if most of what is being said is just wishful thinking. Because I don’t really see any changes happening out there. If I don’t come to CAF, I would have never heard of these things at all.
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JHow
Guest
Funny how the bad music really seems to irk. I’m so glad to know that others dislike it as well. I’m a convert, and frankly, I figured you take the bad (music) with the good (Jesus and the Church!). I just figured that’s how they do things around here and “there’s no accounting for taste!” (as my mom always said).
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Annabelle_Marie
Guest
Hmmm…reminds me of this Sundays reading…what is that “they were convinced of their own righteousness and despised others…”
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Annabelle_Marie
Guest
Because what you don’t like…someone else might. And I fail to see how it changes the Real Presence? Or the Mass.
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FirstCalled
Guest
I agree that Jesus would not be welcome at most parish meetings. They seem to forget that Jesus recognized the presence of Satan in the world and that wouldn’t go with the liberal ideas floating around that there’s really no such thing as sin.
Jesus was critical of most everyone. He properly knew (discerned) right from wrong, good from evil. He called a spade a spade.
No, he most certainly would be thrown out on his rear, by most people.
However, if there was ever anyone would could convince them of the Truth, it’d be him; doesn’t change the fact that the gate is narrow though.
Jesus was critical of most everyone. He properly knew (discerned) right from wrong, good from evil. He called a spade a spade.
No, he most certainly would be thrown out on his rear, by most people.
However, if there was ever anyone would could convince them of the Truth, it’d be him; doesn’t change the fact that the gate is narrow though.
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archangel04
Guest
Let me make myself more clear when I sepak about this change. What I am really talking about is that we are starting to look at how our catechisis has been implemented over the past 50 years, and it’s pretty much been a failure in the West, just look at the numbers. If this was not the case we would not see what’s going on in the world now because we would not be afraid to stand up for truth! People are finding out about there faith on their own, just as you pointed out that you would not know many things without comming to CAF.
I can’t stand tacky music with guitars at mass, but I also won’t scold someone who is true Catholic (not lukewarm) who participates in that form of the Mass. It’s the others who come on here and immiediatly get offended because of our preference for “old” music and form of the mass, and they know who they are. I just question as to why do they come to this section if they are easily offended? I never grew up with the TLM, I gew up with the OF and served 10 years, and it was always guitar Spansh masses, yet I knew that somthing was missing and that I wasn’t getting the most out of the Mass. Come 2007 I learned about this old form of the mass where the priest had his “back towards the people” and spoke in Latin. i still go to Spanish mass with guitars, but once in a while.
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archangel04
Guest
I agree very much, we must always pray for humility, because Satan will put pride into us as soon as we let our guards down.
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HCC
Guest
Excellent post. It is all about prayer and charity though, remember that. I can’t tell you how far Traditional Catholicism has come in just 20 years!
+GLORIA Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto. Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum. Amen.
+GLORIA Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto. Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum. Amen.
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rben20
Guest
Leave it to the Liberal Catholics to hijack Jesus’s “teachings” well said archangel.
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