10 Ways to Crush the Morale of the Laity

[TheLittleLady]

How often do you pray for her? Pray that God will bless her and keep her and make His face to shine upon her? Do you have Mass said for all of the parish staff and volunteers? Have you ever written a thank you note to the staff/volunteers? Brought them a plate of cookies?

Christ told us that the way to convert others is through love and kindness and good works.

 

[Duesenberg]

How often do you pray for her? Pray that God will bless her and keep her and make His face to shine upon her? Do you have Mass said for all of the parish staff and volunteers? Have you ever written a thank you note to the staff/volunteers? Brought them a plate of cookies?

Christ told us that the way to convert others is through love and kindness and good works.

I ask God that her replacement please arrive sooner rather than later, at least every Sunday.

 

[Avila123]

Interesting list and I can see how many of the items could contribute towards problems in the parish. However, an unfortunate fact of life is that our priests are fallible human beings and they need our prayers - not for what we want them to do, but to help them to be the priest God intends them to be.

It would be fascinating to see this list next to a list on 10 ways lay people can crush a priest. I think that items 1 to 4 and 6 would be the same. Some of our priests suffer a lot at the hands of the laity and this can cause long term damage to their ministry. Our new parish priest at the end of his second Sunday mass lovingly (yet very firmly) told people that they do not own ministries (referred everyone to a couple of documents), reminded them of the mission of the Church and said that he was in charge (I suspect a few letters of complaint are being written to the Bishop this afternoon).

There are two sides and a rim to every coin.

 

[fide]

But it is not all about you, and your need and appreciation of the sacraments. At issue here is the Church, the Body of Christ, comprised of clergy and laity - and there is a hierarchical structure by design, placing clergy as the pastors, teachers, leaders of the flock. We, the laity, are “downstream” - they are in control. And to whom much is given, much is required.

This is from a blog article based on a Pew research poll and study (Faith in Flux, revised 2011):

The Catholic Church is not doing well in holding her own. Of those Church members raised in the Church from childhood, a Pew Forum Study (Faith in Flux) found only about 2/3 (68%) of “Cradle Catholics” remain. Of the 1/3 who leave the Church, about half leave and become Protestants and about half leave and remain unaffiliated with any religion. A small part (3%) of the cradle Catholics leave and join other religious groups (Buddhists, Jehovah Witnesses, etc.) But – about one out of three “Cradle Catholics” leave!

The Church would be shrinking, were it not for immigration. Those who have left the Church (over 10% of the American population are now “former Catholics”!) outnumber those who have become Catholic (2.6% of American adults come into the Church), by a margin of nearly four to one. Only the immigration of Catholics has kept the Church in America from diminishing year by year. Evangelical groups, meanwhile, are zealously working with the immigrant population to attract, to convert and to keep them satisfied in a non-Catholic form of Christianity.

Here is a number from the Pew Study that I think ought to get our attention. Of those who left the Church and became Protestant, 71% gave as a reason that their spiritual needs were not being met. This was the most commonly given reason for this group. …

We are sent to make disciples.

 

[Duesenberg]

Interesting list and I can see how many of the items could contribute towards problems in the parish. However, an unfortunate fact of life is that our priests are fallible human beings and they need our prayers - not for what we want them to do, but to help them to be the priest God intends them to be.

So it boils down to practical problems such as the ones I noted continue in some parishes because priests are fallible human beings? In your eyes does it mean that these problems (not all problems but these problems) are destined to remain forever in the parishes that are plagued by them, without hope for solutions?

It would be fascinating to see this list next to a list on 10 ways lay people can crush a priest. I think that items 1 to 4 and 6 would be the same. Some of our priests suffer a lot at the hands of the laity and this can cause long term damage to their ministry. Our new parish priest at the end of his second Sunday mass lovingly (yet very firmly) told people that they do not own ministries (referred everyone to a couple of documents), reminded them of the mission of the Church and said that he was in charge (I suspect a few letters of complaint are being written to the Bishop this afternoon).

My OP is in response to Fr. Robert McTeigue,SJ’s list ( 10 Ways to crush the morale of priests

There are two sides and a rim to every coin.

But no excuses…

 

[Duesenberg]

But it is not all about you, and your need and appreciation of the sacraments. At issue here is the Church, the Body of Christ, comprised of clergy and laity - and there is a hierarchical structure by design, placing clergy as the pastors, teachers, leaders of the flock. We, the laity, are “downstream” - they are in control. And to whom much is given, much is required.

So they take on the responsibility of becoming pastors and with that comes control, yet we can have no expectations that they will solve problems? Not problems only perceived by you or I, but problems recognized by any rational person?

Here is a number from the Pew Study that I think ought to get our attention. Of those who left the Church and became Protestant, 71% gave as a reason that their spiritual needs were not being met. This was the most commonly given reason for this group. …

I wonder what that means exactly? It’s of little value without detail. That 71% covers a multitude of issues, that’s for certain include many on the 10 ways list.

 

[Avila123]

So it boils down to practical problems such as the ones I noted continue in some parishes because priests are fallible human beings? In your eyes does it mean that these problems (not all problems but these problems) are destined to remain forever in the parishes that are plagued by them, without hope for solutions?

I can only speak from my limited experience of relationship problems between priest and parishioners (usually a small group of the most vocal). Relationships need work, whether it is in listening, setting aside one’s own desires/opinions and trying to find a way to work together. If one party refuses to engage, solutions can be difficult but with prayer, patience and perseverance, God-willing changes can happen. I believe there is always hope even if the solution is not what we personally want, when or how we want. I pray for my priest each day to be blessed and to receive the help he needs because every priest needs our heartfelt prayers. God chooses our priests and if I puzzle over His choice, then I look for Jesus in them, until I find Him.

As for excuses - hummmm. If a priest genuinely failed in his ministry, first and foremost it is between God and him, then the Bishop and him. And he needs our prayers. Yes I have technically seen a priest not fulfill his priestly duties by rushing mass, dashing out in the middle of it for a few minutes and then running off afterwards. There was a justifiable excuse as the poor man was suffering from food poisoning and there was no other priest available to cover the Sunday masses.

Thank for the second list. My only criticism of the list is that it doesn’t include some of the really crushing items such as spreading malicious lies about the priest, blanking or turning your back on him when he says good morning, berating him for daring to mention some less attractive Church teachings or even in trying to dictate the pace of the mass. All of which I have sadly seen.

These are just my observations.

 

[po18guy]

Take heart that we find aspects of the Church to be difficult to accept! As the Archangel Raphael said to Tobit and Tobias: “Because you were acceptable to God (ponder that), it was necessary that your faith should be tested.” Tobit 12:13 (Vulgate)

 

[RandomAlias]

I ask God that her replacement please arrive sooner rather than later, at least every Sunday.

Try praying for her good, not for her removal.

 

[Duesenberg]

As for excuses - hummmm. If a priest genuinely failed in his ministry, first and foremost it is between God and him, then the Bishop and him.

OK, so let’s say the pastor allows someone to remain in a leadership role in his parish when he shouldn’t based on how they treat others and/or their competence level which has long done damage to the parish. I don’t think that would mean that he necessarily failed in his ministry, but to ignore such problems does real damage to the Church.

 

[Avila123]

OK, so let’s say the pastor allows someone to remain in a leadership role in his parish when he shouldn’t based on how they treat others and/or their competence level which has long done damage to the parish. I don’t think that would mean that he necessarily failed in his ministry, but to ignore such problems does real damage to the Church.

I would agree that leaving someone in a role where they are struggling without offering the appropriate support and guidance is not helpful. It does raise the question of why the pastor agrees to leave the person in the role. It could be because he sees something others do not, maybe the matter has not been raised calmly in gentle loving kindness, perhaps no once else is offering their talents to the role? We could speculate forever and a day, but only the pastor (in the right environment) could explain it.

 

[Duesenberg]

I would agree that leaving someone in a role where they are struggling without offering the appropriate support and guidance is not helpful. It does raise the question of why the pastor agrees to leave the person in the role. It could be because he sees something others do not, maybe the matter has not been raised calmly in gentle loving kindness, perhaps no once else is offering their talents to the role? We could speculate forever and a day, but only the pastor (in the right environment) could explain it.

Could it be that he simply doesn’t want to deal with the issue? That option never seems to be mentioned. To some it seems almost taboo to consider that option.

 

[fide]

I think that your #5 includes what would address many of those who left for evangelical non-Catholic Christianity

1. Don’t ensure that every member has access to quality catechesis.

The strong Scriptural emphasis in these churches does connect many hungry Catholics to God in a way that connects with them. The Church understands the principle that this demonstrates, that is:

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ.

The Church “understands” this in the sense that the Catechism echoes this truth, and our Holy Mass “demonstrates” it: We have a Liturgy of the Word first, then we have the Liturgy of the Eucharist. The Scriptures, and a Gospel-based homily are to prepare the souls for Holy Eucharist. First the words of the Word, then His resurrected and glorified Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity.

But this “understanding” very often in the Mass is not fulfilled in ways that do “connect” with many in the congregation. The Liturgy of the Word, painfully often, is not celebrated with the spiritual power and unction that it deserves, and that can pierce human hearts as the living and active “two-edged sword” of the Spirit that it is like.

Thus many who left the Church sadly found, in evangelical protestantism, more spiritual food than they experienced in celebrations of Holy Mass as Catholics. I say this with great grief, and shame. We failed them.

 

[pnewton]

So what’s your solution to the millions of practical problems that impact thousands of Catholic parishes? We can’t platitude them away!

The Bible is not a platitude, so I will go with:

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage… etc.

And since we can only fix ourselves, that is what we do.

I am also of the opinion it does no good griping about a problem one does not have a solution to for, and is not willing to do the work, if needed, to address a problem, or in the case of a priest, delegate the resources to address the problem.

 

[Duesenberg]

I think that your #5 includes what would address many of those who left for evangelical non-Catholic Christianity

The Liturgy of the Word, painfully often, is not celebrated with the spiritual power and unction that it deserves, and that can pierce human hearts as the living and active “two-edged sword” of the Spirit that it is like.

Thus many who left the Church sadly found, in evangelical protestantism, more spiritual food than they experienced in celebrations of Holy Mass as Catholics. I say this with great grief, and shame. We failed them.

I think there is a great deal of truth to your comments. Many Catholics really don’t appreciate what they have without suitable catechesis. It really is a shame that (as just one example) Sunday morning Bible study (either before or after Mass) isn’t a common tradition in the Church.

 

[Duesenberg]

And since we can only fix ourselves, that is what we do.

So our focus should be 100% on ourselves and not on out parishes?

 

[lilypadrees]

I am one Catholic who finds more spiritual food in the Catholic Church than in Protestant churches. What I found in Protestant churches was more judgment than anything else.

 

[pnewton]

That is a weird paraphrase of what I said, so, “No.”

 

[Duesenberg]

I am one Catholic who finds more spiritual food in the Catholic Church than in Protestant churches. What I found in Protestant churches was more judgment than anything else.

There’s no question there is far more and better food in the Catholic pantry. The problem is that many Catholics are never shown where the pantry is, or how to gain access to all the goodies located inside of it.

 

[fide]

Those are very appropriate, and telling, analogies. The growth and development of the life of grace in the soul has a human analogy: natural human life itself, which demonstrates stages - childhood, adolescence, mature adulthood. It is important that pastors of souls realize this, and take informed care as to how to “feed the flock,” which may well contain persons (of any age) in spiritual childhood, persons (of any age) in spiritual adolescence, and persons (of any age) in spiritual mature adulthood.

Mt 24:44 Therefore you also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
Mt 24:45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time?
Mt 24:46 Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing.
Mt 24:47 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
Mt 24:48 But if that wicked servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed,’
Mt 24:49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eats and drinks with the drunken,
Mt 24:50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know,
Mt 24:51 and will punish him, and put him with the hypocrites; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.