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Penny_Plain
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2shelbys said:
Guess I wasn’t clear. You said the 10 Commandments aren’t only a Christian symbol. What kind of symbol are they, then?
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Guess I wasn’t clear. You said the 10 Commandments aren’t only a Christian symbol. What kind of symbol are they, then?
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Penny_Plain
Guest
Mike: Your turn.
I have to go do some work.
I have to go do some work.
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bones_IV
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ACLU is threat to this country and one of the reasons why bill S. 1145 is pushed by liberals.
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MikeWM
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Penny Plain:
I have been eagerly awaiting someone to come forward with one way in which their freedom to practice their religion has been curbed by the ACLU via the courts. Looks like I might be waiting a while.
Mike
I also have been doing work
I have been eagerly awaiting someone to come forward with one way in which their freedom to practice their religion has been curbed by the ACLU via the courts. Looks like I might be waiting a while.
Mike
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MikeWM
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The government bad-mouthing a group who consistently takes on the government (and often wins) is hardly surprising now, is it? Mike
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MikeWM
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Nonsense. How can your legal system be based on the ten commandments? Is making a statue of a calf illegal? Is not going to church on Sunday illegal? Is disrespecting your mother or father illegal? Is coveting another’s possessions illegal? Let’s see, how many of the ten commandments are enshrined in the US legal system? A whole two!
Mike
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MikeWM
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It is never specifically ‘allowed’ or ‘disallowed’. It can go ahead if enough senators cannot be found to force a closure on the motion. If it were not ‘allowed’ they couldn’t do it, full stop! There may be an agreement that it isn’t done, but that is far from the same thing.
Filibustering is specifically disallowed under the Standing Orders of the British House of Commons, interestingly. The Speaker can force someone to end their speach if they persist in repetitious argument or tedious detail.
Mike
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pnewton
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Coach not allowed to lead his team in prayer.I also have been doing work
I have been eagerly awaiting someone to come forward with one way in which their freedom to practice their religion has been curbed by the ACLU via the courts. Looks like I might be waiting a while.
Mike
sports.espn.go.com/sports/news/story?id=2188313
The wait is over!
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Penny_Plain
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Why is it the coach’s rights that are being infringed when he’s leading 50 high schoolers in prayer against the wishes of some of the children’s parents?
Poor coach. He can’t come into my living room and lead my family in prayer. He can’t get up in the middle of Mass and tell the congregation that they should vote for the political candidate of his choice. He can’t walk into the principal’s office and tell him about the gospel when the principal’s interviewing potential new teachers.
(gasp) The man has no rights at all!!!
The right to practice your religion does not include the right to hijack a captive audience. How many of you would be able to do something like this to your subordinates at a meeting in your workplace?
How many of you think you should be able to?
How many of you would put up with it if you were the subordinate and your boss was a Southern Baptist, a Hindu, or a Muslim?
How many of you would object if the coach was leading your children in a prayer that began “There is no god but God, and Muhammad is his prophet?”
Hmm?
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pnewton
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Penny Plain:
I won’t address all of your “what ifs” because I did not see a single one that was a direct correlation and each on would have a unique answer. I also do not understand the point behind the dripping sarcasm of your last post.
I did not say his rights were infringed. The specific point addressed was, “their freedom to practice their religion has been curbed.” The point is that freedom to pray was curbed. You mentioned this prayer was, “against the wishes of some of the children’s parents.” The desire of others to have the right to pray as a group is disopsed of. In order to protect us from establishment of religion we have restricted the free exercise of religion.
I won’t address all of your “what ifs” because I did not see a single one that was a direct correlation and each on would have a unique answer. I also do not understand the point behind the dripping sarcasm of your last post.
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Penny_Plain
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You think that was sarcastic? Sheesh. I’m not even warmed up yet.
The point was that the “freedom to practice religion” is not and never has been absolute. In my experience, the people who are most vocal about their insistence on the right to public prayer in situations like the one you pointed out are also the ones who are most likely to be incensed if the public prayer in question begins, to use an example at random, “There is no god but God, and Mohammed is his prophet.”
If I painted with too broad a brush and slopped some of the enamel of my wrath on the pants of your philosophy, I apologise.
My children do not play football. If they did, I would not want their public school coach leading the team in prayer. That’s not his job. Yes, he has a right to pray, but he has no right to lead my child in prayer. I don’t care if the prayer begins, “Our Father which art in heaven …” or “There is no god but …” You get the idea.
Not his job. Not his right.
Listening to him pray and praying with him should not be a requirement for my kid to play football.
I also note, since you dismiss my examples as off point, that yours is also off point. Mike asked for examples where the ACLU via the courts had curbed somebody’s right to religious expression.
ACLU and the courts weren’t involved. School board told coach to knock it off. Coach had a snit fit and quit.
Seriously, for half a second, no offense meant by the sarcasm. Pax?
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Jaypeeto3
Guest
The ACLU was founded by a Communist, Mr. Roger Baldwin, a close friend of racist eugenicist Margaret Sanger, the founder of baby-butchering Planned Parenthood. That’s all I need to know.
The ACLU is evil. Period.
Jaypeeto3
The ACLU is evil. Period.
Jaypeeto3
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Penny_Plain
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Thanks for clearing that up for us. It all seems so clear now.
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pnewton
Guest
Penny Plain:
Yes, I think we have tipped the balance way to far in the direction of protecting the sensibilities of a small minority at the expense of the rights of the much larger majority.
To take this discussion back to the original topic, it is not about the ACLU exclusively, but about whether they should receive awards in the form of legal fees for cases they are not a direct party to. I think the legislation in question does help close an avenue of abuse that they have been using to dig into tax payers pockets.
If some of you fine folks want to donate to them and co-operate with their goals, that would be your business and your co-operation in evil is somewhat remote But I do no want my tax dollars going to these parasitic attorneys.
You may be right about the snit, but do not think that the courts and the ACLU were not involved. Everytime an organization makes decisions about limitations on the balance between free exercise versus establishment they so so based on prevailing case law. In our generation of judicial activism, court decisions extend beyond their immediate parties and into common practice.
Yes, I think we have tipped the balance way to far in the direction of protecting the sensibilities of a small minority at the expense of the rights of the much larger majority.
To take this discussion back to the original topic, it is not about the ACLU exclusively, but about whether they should receive awards in the form of legal fees for cases they are not a direct party to. I think the legislation in question does help close an avenue of abuse that they have been using to dig into tax payers pockets.
If some of you fine folks want to donate to them and co-operate with their goals, that would be your business and your co-operation in evil is somewhat remote But I do no want my tax dollars going to these parasitic attorneys.
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2shelbys
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Penny Plain:
It is not just the lifetime of the judges but the decades of influence.
Exactly. As I said, the rules allow filibusters in 7 specific circumstances and judicial nominations is not one of them. The Republicans did not even do it to Ginsburg who so richly deserved it.
Being a Republican does not even come close to guaranteeing conservative values or appointments. If you are looking for conservative Presidencies you have 1980-1988 period. And even he had one supposed conservative (O’Connor) turn out not to be.
I did not say that but you are right and it is hard to believe.
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2shelbys
Guest
Wow. You cound not be much farther out in left field. What is ANY of that supposed to mean? Fish sticks? Big Ten? The point is that it is not just Christians that recognize the story of Moses and that all religions worship a God. All of the unrelated nonsense you could ever post does not change that.
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2shelbys
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MikeWM said:
Mike
Yes, that all it was. Badmouthing. No truth to it at all. Do some reading.
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2shelbys
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Mike,
You have to be the king of irrelevent arguments. This country was founded on the basic principles of right and wrong which are reflected in the Ten Commandments.
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2shelbys
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MikeWM
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Penny has explained quite well how this is nothing approximating to an infringment of the coach’s rights. Nothing is stopping him praying for the team, or going to get a job at a Catholic school. So it looks like I’m still waiting how an individuals right to practice religion has been abrogated by the actions of the ACLU.
Mike
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