100 US Anglican parishes convert to Roman Catholic Church

[irishpatrick]

About 100 traditionalist Anglican parishes across the United States have decided to convert en masse to the Roman Catholic Church, it emerged yesterday.

They have voted to take up the offer made by Pope Benedict XVI in November that permits vicars and their entire congregations to defect to Rome while keeping many of their Anglican traditions, including married priests.

By issuing the apostolic constitution Anglicanorum coetibus (on groups of Anglicans) the Pope was accused of attempting to poach Anglicans unhappy about decisions taken in their Church to ordain women and sexually-active homosexuals as priests and bishops.

But the Vatican insisted that the move to create self-governing “personal ordinariates”, which resemble dioceses in structure, came as a result of requests from at least 30 disaffected Anglican bishops around the world for “corporate reunion” with the Catholic Church.

telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/7375163/100-US-Anglican-parishes-convert-to-Roman-Catholic-Church.html

salesianity.blogspot.com/2010/03/100-us-anglican-parishes-convert-to.html

 

[irishpatrick]

Very good news!

However, if married Anglican’s can become Catholic Priests, then why would the RCC stop all men from being married? And, will those Priests receive new formation and ordination in the RCC?

I really believe those are fair questions.

 

[Filioque]

The provision is only for those converting to the Catholic Church. It would seem that as in the past, they will have to go through a process which consists of living as a Catholic Layman for a period of time, (Usually two years) then formation under the direction of a seminary or formation program established by the Director of Clergy in any given Diocese. The wives will also have to both consent and participate in coursework that will instruct them on the obligations of a Catholic priest, and their own roles, as they will have to support all Catholic Moral and Dogmatic teachings now. After that period of time has passed, they can be proposed for Ordination. Any new vocations coming out of the Anglican Use will have to remain celebate.

As an aside, most of the “Traditional Anglican” Clergy I know are older men with grown children. Some are very poorly formed by quick fix programs or no formal seminary program, and may not wish to go through all that is required for ordination in the Catholic Church. There are others (a minority) who were originally Catholic priests, among them some who have been married and divorced, then re-married. A few more have married divorced women. So I don’t really see every Anglican priest seeking ordination as a Catholic priest. There are TAC parishes that have more than one priest, where there will be a split between members of the parish who wish to remain free of the Pope, and those who do and will accept the teachings and authority of the Catholic Church.

Among some TAC parishes you can count a priest and five or ten families in attendence they will be unable to support a priest in each parish, (if these small parishes and missions come into the Church as individual parishes) many competing groups will have to consolidate and accept one authority rather than their individual Anglican groups. Some of the opponents to reunion are spreading rumors that the Anglican use liturgical books will be given, and then in five or ten years, after they become comfortable as Catholics, the Anglican use will be dropped, making for many who are unsure about conversion. So I have trouble accepting the numbers proposed will all convert.

Most importantly though, I think we all need to pray that our Lord’s prayer that we all be one, “Ut unum sint” and that we continue our efforts to unite all Christians under the Vicar of Christ, as well as preach the Gospel to those who have not yet heard it.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I’m just curious: just how does a non-Catholic parish/congregation decide en masse to switch religions?

What is the mechanism that starts the discussion to make that kind of decision?

Is is a spontaneous “uprising”?

Does the minister stand up one sunday and announce, “I’m outa here; anybody want to come with me?”

Just wondering. How does it get started?

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

Remember that most ministers, clergy converts to the Catholic faith, have done a lot of
study, especially on the early church fathers and incorporate those teachings into their
homilies (according to the Coming Home Network). Some even have their congregants
coming up and asking about the “Catholic” teachings! Most Anglican parishes have
already considered themselves “catholic” in belief in all but accepting the Pope. Talks
have gone on for a long time and it appears that these latter ones coming in to the Church
voted on it, some I’m sure will not join them.
Although not Anglican, just this week EWTN had the conversion story of Alex (sorry, his
last name escapes me right now) He was an evangelical minister who started doing his
services like the early Christians and some in his congregations asked him if he was
becoming Catholic. This was early on and he denied it, but now he (and many in his
congregation) came “Home”.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

As an aside, most of the “Traditional Anglican” Clergy I know are older men with grown children. Some are very poorly formed by quick fix programs or no formal seminary program, and may not wish to go through all that is required for ordination in the Catholic Church. There are others (a minority) who were originally Catholic priests, among them some who have been married and divorced, then re-married. A few more have married divorced women. So I don’t really see every Anglican priest seeking ordination as a Catholic priest. There are TAC parishes that have more than one priest, where there will be a split between members of the parish who wish to remain free of the Pope, and those who do and will accept the teachings and authority of the Catholic Church.

Filioque:

The Anglican Priest who pastored the church my father was a member of had a D.Phil(Oxon) - As they converted to Orthodoxy, Fr. Michael died an Archimandrite in 2007 of the Orthodox Church after a career in which he was -
Assoc. Dean of Student Affairs CSULA
Dean of Student Affaird Biola
Authored *Gypsy Demons and Divinities
*In addition to being Rector of a Mission which was founded in 1976 and converted as a Parish to Orthodoxy in 1980
stmichaelwhittier.org/dnn/

The Rector at my Parish was a member of the 2nd International Scientific Congress on the Shroud, & speaks, reads & writes Hebrew, Koine Greek and Ecclesiastical Latin. He holds a Doctor of Divinity in Roman Antiquities, Ancient Judaism and Early Islam and used to be an Adjunct Prof. at Hillsdale College.

The Previous Rector at my parish was fluent in Ecclesiastic and Classical Latin, Koine & Classic Greek and French, and an expert on the American Civil War. He also had an Masters in Psychology along with his Masters in Divinity.

The Curate at my parish is a former President of the American Association of Physicians Assistants. The Previous Bishop of the Diocese of the West was a Commander Air Group and a Recipient of the Medal of Honor for actions taken above and beyond the call of duty without regard for his life during the Vietnam War. His successor is a Concert Pianist and Organist of some note - I now regret missing the concert he gave a few months ago…

Can you say that of you parish priest? or, Can you say what I just said of “Bishop CAG” about your Bishop Ordinary?

Until you can, please don’t deride the training or preparation of the men who are serving parishes, often for NO pay, in the ACA.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Remember that most ministers, clergy converts to the Catholic faith, have done a lot of
study, especially on the early church fathers and incorporate those teachings into their
homilies (according to the Coming Home Network). Some even have their congregants
coming up and asking about the “Catholic” teachings! Most Anglican parishes have
already considered themselves “catholic” in belief in all but accepting the Pope. Talks
have gone on for a long time and it appears that these latter ones coming in to the Church
voted on it, some I’m sure will not join them.
Although not Anglican, just this week EWTN had the conversion story of Alex (sorry, his
last name escapes me right now) He was an evangelical minister who started doing his
services like the early Christians and some in his congregations asked him if he was
becoming Catholic. This was early on and he denied it, but now he (and many in his
congregation) came “Home”.

TexCatholic:

Thank you, and I really mean it.

It’s going to be hard enough to convince my fellow Anglicans to go through with swimming the Tiber without people sneering at them like Filioque was doing in his post.

They already all know how much flak I got when I posted the bit about Pope JP II’s “Offer” 5 years ago. They already know how much grief I was given, & how unwelcome I and the rest my Anglican Brothers in Christ were made to feel 5 years ago when this came up.

Compared to that experience, your words are like baum.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Filioque:

The Anglican Priest who pastored the church my father was a member of had a D.Phil(Oxon) - As they converted to Orthodoxy, Fr. Michael died an Archimandrite in 2007 of the Orthodox Church after a career in which he was -
Assoc. Dean of Student Affairs CSULA
Dean of Student Affaird Biola
Authored *Gypsy Demons and Divinities
*In addition to being Rector of a Mission which was founded in 1976 and converted as a Parish to Orthodoxy in 1980
stmichaelwhittier.org/dnn/

The Rector at my Parish was a member of the 2nd International Scientific Congress on the Shroud, & speaks, reads & writes Hebrew, Koine Greek and Ecclesiastical Latin. He holds a Doctor of Divinity in Roman Antiquities, Ancient Judaism and Early Islam and used to be an Adjunct Prof. at Hillsdale College.

The Previous Rector at my parish was fluent in Ecclesiastic and Classical Latin, Koine & Classic Greek and French, and an expert on the American Civil War. He also had an Masters in Psychology along with his Masters in Divinity.

The Curate at my parish is a former President of the American Association of Physicians Assistants. The Previous Bishop of the Diocese of the West was a Commander Air Group and a Recipient of the Medal of Honor for actions taken above and beyond the call of duty without regard for his life during the Vietnam War. His successor is a Concert Pianist and Organist of some note - I now regret missing the concert he gave a few months ago…

Can you say that of you parish priest? or, Can you say what I just said of “Bishop CAG” about your Bishop Ordinary?

Until you can, please don’t deride the training or preparation of the men who are serving parishes, often for NO pay, in the ACA.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

Consider yourself blest.

I have had two pastors who were chaplains in Vietnam. One became a military chaplain in his 40’s and earned jump wings. He ended up as a bishop; he didn’t stay as a pastor very long. Another did three tours in Vietnam as a chaplain and as a civilian pastor could turn troubled parishes around in a heartbeat. Amazing men.

Other priests who achieved high academic standings often found themselves promoted quickly. It just seemed to have worked out that way.

 

[Chipper]

They already all know how much flak I got when I posted the bit about Pope JP II’s “Offer” 5 years ago. They already know how much grief I was given, & how unwelcome I and the rest my Anglican Brothers in Christ were made to feel 5 years ago when this came up.

Are you saying that you were given grief over joining the Catholic Church? If so this is truly amazing news to me.

When I was a sponsor in an RCIA program, we had a couple joining us from the Anglican church. We mostly felt nothing but joy and love in our hearts for this couple.

How in the world Catholics could possibly give you guys grief over becoming Catholic is truly beyond me.

If this is true, then why in the world would you want to become Catholic anyways?

 

[TCordova]

This is a really interesting. I do understand that all Anglican priest who become Catholic have to go through some type of formation; however what do we do with those who are in need of an annulment? do we zip it through, or do we make them go through the whole process. if these priest have to go through a formation process, how do we staff the parishes they come from? In the parish I work for we have over 9,000 families and we have one priest and the word from our bishop is that we have no one to send there to help. So my concern is do we pull priest from parishes in order to “stock” these 100 or do we allow their priest to continue in there established role. Then we have the Lay folks, what do we do with them? 1st do all have go through some type of formation and sacrament prep? what about those who have been divorced and remarried? This can become a very sticky and I hope we are prepared for it.

 

[Filioque]

Filioque:

The Anglican Priest who pastored the church my father was a member of had a D.Phil(Oxon) - As they converted to Orthodoxy, Fr. Michael died an Archimandrite in 2007 of the Orthodox Church after a career in which he was -
Assoc. Dean of Student Affairs CSULA
Dean of Student Affaird Biola
Authored *Gypsy Demons and Divinities
*In addition to being Rector of a Mission which was founded in 1976 and converted as a Parish to Orthodoxy in 1980
stmichaelwhittier.org/dnn/

The Rector at my Parish was a member of the 2nd International Scientific Congress on the Shroud, & speaks, reads & writes Hebrew, Koine Greek and Ecclesiastical Latin. He holds a Doctor of Divinity in Roman Antiquities, Ancient Judaism and Early Islam and used to be an Adjunct Prof. at Hillsdale College.

The Previous Rector at my parish was fluent in Ecclesiastic and Classical Latin, Koine & Classic Greek and French, and an expert on the American Civil War. He also had an Masters in Psychology along with his Masters in Divinity.

The Curate at my parish is a former President of the American Association of Physicians Assistants. The Previous Bishop of the Diocese of the West was a Commander Air Group and a Recipient of the Medal of Honor for actions taken above and beyond the call of duty without regard for his life during the Vietnam War. His successor is a Concert Pianist and Organist of some note - I now regret missing the concert he gave a few months ago…

Can you say that of you parish priest? or, Can you say what I just said of “Bishop CAG” about your Bishop Ordinary?

Until you can, please don’t deride the training or preparation of the men who are serving parishes, often for NO pay, in the ACA.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

Well yes I can, but then again the parish I attend is staffed by priests who teach at a local Catholic University, so they don’t represent the average RC parish. However the Seminary formation programs in the RCC are for the most part much better organized than many of the TAC that I have seen. I have met some very well educated Anglican/TAC priests and bishops, but most I have met have been poorly formed, and honest clergy among the ACA and TAC who came into the TAC from existing Episcopal and Anglican diocese have lamented that in the last couple of decades many priests have been ordained who would never have been in days past due to the need to staff parishes.

I’ll make the assumption that you are referring to St. Mary’s and the Diocese of the West. I’ll comment on that more fully in a private message, if you see fit to post it, that is fine, however I do want to stress that I pointed out some general problems that one would find among some of the clergy of many TAC groups, not all of them. Bp. S did serve with distinction, as did many RC and Protestant clergy, he and his health remain in my daily prayers. Bp. D. W. is a great organist, you missed a good concert.

 

[redrosetea]

TexCatholic:

Thank you, and I really mean it.

It’s going to be hard enough to convince my fellow Anglicans to go through with swimming the Tiber without people sneering at them like Filioque was doing in his post.

They already all know how much flak I got when I posted the bit about Pope JP II’s “Offer” 5 years ago. They already know how much grief I was given, & how unwelcome I and the rest my Anglican Brothers in Christ were made to feel 5 years ago when this came up.

The trick is not to care…Keep your head up and remember we are waiting for you to come home

Compared to that experience, your words are like baum.

We will be wating with warm ,dry towels ,and a hot Toddy…welcome home

 

[Filioque]

Sad that telling the truth is viewed as sneering. Once again, I did not say all TAC clergy were poorly formed. However many who I know personally, including the clergy at St. Mary’s feel that the formation of newer TAC clergy, (as opposed to those who left the ECUSA, and other Anglican bodies) were rushed through to ordination, many not ready for the task, in the hopes that they could supply the needs until a well prepared clergy could be trained. As St. Mary’s Theological College and other attempts to form men closed, the possibility of such a venture was dashed, and the bishops of the various groups were left to their own devices. In a discussion over dinner with Abp. Hepworth, after he had been misled by one of the clergy at St. Mary’s into believing that a RC priest friend of mine and I was considering getting in a rowboat and navigating the Thames, he lamented the lack of formation among many TAC priests, and even some of the bishops not just in the USA, but around the Continuum.

This does not discount some very fine and well formed clergy in the TAC. It is I think an honest look at the situation. Charity demands that we do not gloss over the shortcomings on either side.

 

[Filioque]

This is a really interesting. I do understand that all Anglican priest who become Catholic have to go through some type of formation; however what do we do with those who are in need of an annulment? do we zip it through, or do we make them go through the whole process. if these priest have to go through a formation process, how do we staff the parishes they come from? In the parish I work for we have over 9,000 families and we have one priest and the word from our bishop is that we have no one to send there to help. So my concern is do we pull priest from parishes in order to “stock” these 100 or do we allow their priest to continue in there established role. Then we have the Lay folks, what do we do with them? 1st do all have go through some type of formation and sacrament prep? what about those who have been divorced and remarried? This can become a very sticky and I hope we are prepared for it.

Even if Redroseta and TradAnglican feel I’m trying to block the process, or paint all Anglicans in the TAC as something other than good candidates for reunion, I think the opposite.

There are real issues that do need to be discussed. Glossing over them won’t make the problems go away, nor will ignoring them help Anglo Catholics who have been told that the process will be just a matter of putting a Papal flag in the sanctuary, and continuing on as before. It would as I’ve mentioned be wrong to not discuss in the open shortcomings on both sides.

While there are many RC clergy who ignore the rubrics of the Missal, for Anglicans it will be hard for some to give up some of their practices. As an example, if St. Clement’s and St. Mary’s who are used to the Anglican Missal come over, they will most probably be required to use the Book of Divine Worship, and not the Missal. I’ve heard some harsh comments from some about the BDW, they don’t really like it. Those who have been straight 1928 BCP, and have not used vestments, just surplus and stole, will have to adjust to a more Catholic liturgy. There are any number of those inbetween. To date when someone disagreed with something one group did, they simply formed another, or jumped from one group to another. If they take the Roman option, that is less of an option.

Divorced and re-married, well while there are Catholics now who disregard the Church on that, these new converts will have to look carefully into what they really believe. Since the marriages were not solemnized in the Catholic Church that poses other problems with investigating the marriages. None are insurmountable, but as anyone who has gone through the process of conversion to the Catholic Church can attest, it is not as simple as waking up one day and saying, Ok today I am a Catholic in communion with the Pope.

I would imagine that like many RC Trads who are in communion with the Pope, these new parishes that come in under the pastoral provision will have to attend their local RC parish for a time. Anglican priests who convert will be unable to serve as pastors until they have gone through all the essentials, and have been ordained. There may be a few who’s orders are accepted without question as a few were ordained by the Old Catholics, and one I know was formerly Orthodox, another was an Orthodox deacon, before becoming Anglican, so his formation may take a different fast-tracked route. He may even have the option of serving as an Eastern Rite priest and attend to the Pastoral Provision parishes. But all in all each case will have to be reviewed individually.

 

[invocation]

I will run, not walk, to the closest Anglican parish as soon as this goes through (there are two less than an hr away). I entered Catholicism because of exposure to Anglicanism, and I have felt, very painfully, the absence of Anglican worship and music, ever since I became Catholic. This is a relief and a joy!

 

[CATHOLIC_BIKER]

Remember that most ministers, clergy converts to the Catholic faith, have done a lot of
study, especially on the early church fathers and incorporate those teachings into their
homilies (according to the Coming Home Network). Some even have their congregants
coming up and asking about the “Catholic” teachings! Most Anglican parishes have
already considered themselves “catholic” in belief in all but accepting the Pope. Talks
have gone on for a long time and it appears that these latter ones coming in to the Church
voted on it, some I’m sure will not join them.
Although not Anglican, just this week EWTN had the conversion story of Alex (sorry, his
last name escapes me right now) He was an evangelical minister who started doing his
services like the early Christians and some in his congregations asked him if he was
becoming Catholic. This was early on and he denied it, but now he (and many in his
congregation) came “Home”.

That was the conversion of Alex Jones. I think he said he was a Pentecostal minister. I thought it was a pretty good story. It seems he gave up everything to become Catholic, and has no regrets!