106 years later, has anything changed?

[benedictgal]

Given that today is the Memorial of Pope St. Piux X, it seems to me appropos to look at his Motu Propio on Sacred Music, Tra le Sollectitudini.

1. Sacred music should consequently possess, in the highest degree, the qualities proper to the liturgy, and in particular sanctity and goodness of form, which will spontaneously produce the final quality of universality.

It must be holy, and must, therefore, exclude all profanity not only in itself, but in the manner in which it is presented by those who execute it.

It must be true art, for otherwise it will be impossible for it to exercise on the minds of those who listen to it that efficacy which the Church aims at obtaining in admitting into her liturgy the art of musical sounds.

But it must, at the same time, be universal in the sense that while every nation is permitted to admit into its ecclesiastical compositions those special forms which may be said to constitute its native music, still these forms must be subordinated in such a manner to the general characteristics of sacred music that nobody of any nation may receive an impression other than good on hearing them.

The saintly Pontiff notes that sacred music must, first and foremost, be holy in nature and “exclude all profanity, not only in itself, but in the manner in which it is presented by those who execute it.”

Recall that when he wrote this document some 106 years ago, Pope St. Pius X was facing the problem of opera infiltrating the Sacred Liturgy, as well as other forms of music from the theatrical genre. He meant business with what he wrote. He knew that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the most important act of worship that we do as Catholics and he valiantly sought to protect its integrity. In fact, like Pope Benedict XVI, Pope St. Pius X made the Liturgy the centerpiece of his reign as Supreme Pontiff.

I fear that in the 106 years since the MP was promulgated, nothing much has changed. While we no longer contend with opera, several profane genres have crept into the Mass that are not at all suitable to cross the threshhold. As I see it, these include the Protestant Praise and Worship genre, Mariachi music and songs that sound more like they belong on the 70s on 7 (Sirius radio) than in the Mass.

Note what he says further along in the document:

1. The Church has always recognized and favored the progress of the arts, admitting to the service of religion everything good and beautiful discovered by genius in the course of ages – always, however, with due regard to the liturgical laws. Consequently modern music is also admitted to the Church, since it, too, furnishes compositions of such excellence, sobriety and gravity, that they are in no way unworthy of the liturgical functions.

Still, since modern music has risen mainly to serve profane uses, greater care must be taken with regard to it, in order that the musical compositions of modern style which are admitted in the Church may contain nothing profane, be free from reminiscences of motifs adopted in the theaters, and be not fashioned even in their external forms after the manner of profane pieces.

1. Among the different kinds of modern music, that which appears less suitable for accompanying the functions of public worship is the theatrical style, which was in the greatest vogue, especially in Italy, during the last century. This of its very nature is diametrically opposed to Gregorian Chant and classic polyphony, and therefore to the most important law of all good sacred music. Besides the intrinsic structure, the rhythm and what is known as the conventionalism of this style adapt themselves but badly to the requirements of true liturgical music.

Inasmuch as he respected modern music, he also believed that a fence needed to be built to reign in these compositions. I believe that we need this fence more than ever. While there may be some who will read this thread and dismiss it, I would urge them to read this document. While many may consider it dated, there is still much truth contained in his words.

adoremus.org/TraLeSollecitudini.html#anchor40133476

Even the late Pope John Paul II took stock in what his venerable predecessor had to say.

 

[FrDavid96]

I find it more than a little ironic that if we today were to have the music that St Pius X tried so hard to discourage, we would consider it a miraculous gift from God compared to what we have to contend with.

 

[passus]

Well, uhm, “What are we going to do about it?” sounds like an appropriate question.

 

[benedictgal]

Well, uhm, “What are we going to do about it?” sounds like an appropriate question.

And, that is the $64,000,000 question. We would do well to read both documents, the one promulgated by Pope St. Pius X and the one written 100 years later by the late Pope John Paul II. We also need to be proactive, as best we can.

 

[FrDavid96]

Well, uhm, “What are we going to do about it?” sounds like an appropriate question.

I think at this point, the only thing “we” can do is to sit back, hope and pray that the Holy See finally does something concrete–like require an official hymnal and require Rome’s recognition of it.

The simply fact is that the music publishers have made it quite clear that they aren’t going to change for the better. It took a clear directive from Rome for them to finally remove YHWH from the texts. I don’t think that anything short of something similar will have any effect on them. An official hymnal seems like the only thing left at this point, even though that may seem like a drastic measure for some, it’s only because we’re not used to having such a thing here in the US.

 

[thunderballs75]

You do understand what kind of hell it would cause if we actually went back and followed St.Pius’ motu proprio, right?

 

[passus]

And, that is the $64,000,000 question. We would do well to read both documents, the one promulgated by Pope St. Pius X and the one written 100 years later by the late Pope John Paul II. We also need to be proactive, as best we can.

We can read Church documents on liturgy until the cows come home and then we can sit behind our computers and wrinkle our noses and complain about how base and saccharine sweet popular liturgical music is…but that’s not going to get anything done. At all.

I think at this point, the only thing “we” can do is to sit back, hope and pray that the Holy See finally does something concrete–like require an official hymnal and require Rome’s recognition of it.

The simply fact is that the music publishers have made it quite clear that they aren’t going to change for the better. It took a clear directive from Rome for them to finally remove YHWH from the texts. I don’t think that anything short of something similar will have any effect on them. An official hymnal seems like the only thing left at this point, even though that may seem like a drastic measure for some, it’s only because we’re not used to having such a thing here in the US.

That’s never going to happen. It would be suicide for development in the liturgy as far as sacred music goes. Furthermore, there is so much *good *sacred repertoire out there that anything we could ever compile into an official hymnal would be unsatisfactory.

You do understand what kind of hell it would cause if we actually went back and followed St.Pius’ motu proprio, right?

Yup! That’s really what I was getting at.

 

[FrDavid96]

You do understand what kind of hell it would cause if we actually went back and followed St.Pius’ motu proprio, right?

Actually, yes. A lot of us do understand it. The problem is that the music publishers have been ignoring it.

It would also have to be done in light of John Paul II’s follow-up letter his Chirograph on Sacred Music adoremus.org/Chirograph-SacredMusic.html

Considering the awful mess we have now, I would welcome implementing both letters.

 

[FrDavid96]

We can read Church documents on liturgy until the cows come home and then we can sit behind our computers and wrinkle our noses and complain about how base and saccharine sweet popular liturgical music is…but that’s not going to get anything done. At all.

That’s never going to happen. It would be suicide for development in the liturgy as far as sacred music goes. Furthermore, there is so much *good *sacred repertoire out there that anything we could ever compile into an official hymnal would be unsatisfactory.

Yup! That’s really what I was getting at.

It wouldn’t hurt sacred music at all. It would encourage it.

What it would hurt is the unfortunate and inappropriate schmaltz we’re currently being force-fed. The Church would be so much better off.

Let’s put the sacred back into sacred music–or at least pray that the Holy See does it.

 

[passus]

It wouldn’t hurt sacred music at all. It would encourage it.

Putting exclusive limits on a set book of hymns to which we would henceforth limit ourselves would somehow encourage sacred music?

What if someone composes a…new hymn? It would never see the “light of day” as far as use in the liturgy is concerned. How is that a good thing?

 

[benedictgal]

You do understand what kind of hell it would cause if we actually went back and followed St.Pius’ motu proprio, right?

The only ones who would probably consider this hell would be OCP and GIA, not to mention Haugen, Haas, Hurd, Ferrel, the SLJ and Reza.

 

[Lead_Me_Home]

For me personally I have no problem with different styles of music being introduced to the Mass as long as the proper adjustments are made to make sure that they are reverent. You complained about mariachis and Protestant music earlier. I think you really have to be careful that your own personal preference do not effect your view of this. ONe official hymnal would be terrible because w are the catholic church. Roman Catholics are in every nation, culture, and language of the world. I for one love Gospel music because it is part of my culture. I have no problem with certain songs not being used if they conflict with Church doctrine. I would not consider this intentional protestant music because it of centuries of African American culture and history that is not directly dependent on protestantism or its doctrines. As for mariachis are you sure that these cultural instruments are used in both latin festive and religious music and that the music is actually reverent, not just mariachi? Many parishes uses Spanish (spain) music in their spanish masses for largely Puerto Rican and Mexican parishes. Shouldn’t they be allowed to bring their reverent and sacred cultural music into the Mass? These Spaniard songs are often so old that they use tenses that are so archaic that they only appear in church music and dialects of spanish only spoken in Spain.

see nbccongress.org/features/african-american-sacred-music-01.asp

Sorrow for my lack of editing, this is a busy week for me.

 

[benedictgal]

Putting exclusive limits on a set book of hymns to which we would henceforth limit ourselves would somehow encourage sacred music?

What if someone composes a…new hymn? It would never see the “light of day” as far as use in the liturgy is concerned. How is that a good thing?

Actually, Liturgiam Authenticam mandates this:

Sung texts and liturgical hymns have a particular importance and efficacy. Especially on Sunday, the “Day of the Lord”, the singing of the faithful gathered for the celebration of Holy Mass, no less than the prayers, the readings and the homily, express in an authentic way the message of the Liturgy while fostering a sense of common faith and communion in charity. If they are used widely by the faithful, they should remain relatively fixed so that confusion among the people may be avoided

In fact, this was what Sing to the Lord was supposed to have done. However, the music publishers tag-teamed with the NPM and the FDLC, making an intensive lobbying effort (worse than those targeting Congress) and that part, the marching orders from LA, got derailed.

 

[passus]

The only ones who would probably consider this hell would be OCP and GIA, not to mention Haugen, Haas, Hurd, Ferrel, the SLJ and Reza.

What about all the faithful who find that kind of music conducive to their worship and enjoy singing and playing and worshiping with it? Are you going to deny the Church’s youth (across America, at least) the music they love?

I mention youth specifically because we haven’t even touched on the newest Catholic composers on the playing field–Matt Maher, Steve Angrisano, Tom Booth, Sarah Hart, and so on. Just pick up an OCP Catalog and you’ll see what I mean. Really, benedictgal, Marty Haugen and David Haas are old news as far as liturgical music goes. They’re yesterday.

So now we have “youth bands” playing rock and pop and gospel or jazz style music during their Masses–and we would do…what? Toss them books of chant they are incapable of singing?

So you’d have massive groups of Catholic youth musicians who no longer have a place in their home parishes because they are not allowed to play or sing the music they are capable of playing or singing and they find it hard to worship in a musical style with which they cannot identity.

Well, where are they going to go?

Protestant churches, if we’re lucky. If people can’t get what they want at home, they’re going to go after it where they can.

Is there a solution for all the mess we have on our hands? I’m not sure; I certainly don’t have one. Who’s to blame? The liturgical music publishers, probably. But I think that Rome definitely dropped the ball on things as well. They had the opportunity to clip David Haas in the bud when his first pieces were making their way into New Dawn’s hymnals. Rome easily could have said, “Who, whoa! That’s not what we meant when we said…” or “That song is way off the mark!” But nobody did anything or said anything and so this–the music sung and played in Catholic churches all over–is the result of it.

 

[benedictgal]

For me personally I have no problem with different styles of music being introduced to the Mass as long as the proper adjustments are made to make sure that they are reverent. You complained about mariachis and Protestant music earlier. I think you really have to be careful that your own personal preference do not effect your view of this. ONe official hymnal would be terrible because w are the catholic church. Roman Catholics are in every nation, culture, and language of the world. I for one love Gospel music because it is part of my culture. I have no problem with certain songs not being used if they conflict with Church doctrine. I would not consider this intentional protestant music because it of centuries of African American culture and history that is not directly dependent on protestantism or its doctrines. As for mariachis are you sure that these cultural instruments are used in both latin festive and religious music and that the music is actually reverent, not just mariachi? Many parishes uses Spanish (spain) music in their spanish masses for largely Puerto Rican and Mexican parishes. Shouldn’t they be allowed to bring their reverent and sacred cultural music into the Mass? These Spaniard songs are often so old that they use tenses that are so archaic that they only appear in church music and dialects of spanish only spoken in Spain.

see nbccongress.org/features/african-american-sacred-music-01.asp

Sorrow for my lack of editing, this is a busy week for me.

Actually, I do speak with some authority, as I have planned diocesan liturgies as well as those for our Cathedral and another parish. Perhaps you may not realize this, but, Laredo sits on the Texas side of the US/Mexico border. So, I am very familiar with the subject matter.

What I do not think you realize is that Mariachi music is profane and secular, and, it does not fall within the realms of inculturation since this genre came about in the 20th century. It is commonly used at parties, dancehalls and fiestas. Furthermore, most, if not all, of the music these Mariachi bands play is not at all compatible with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. In fact, their compositions have taken excessive liberties with the parts of the Mass, including the Kyrie and the Gloria.

Evidently, even the altering of texts was a problem back in 1903, as Pope St. Pius X observed that:

1. As the texts that may be rendered in music, and the order in which they are to be rendered, are determined for every liturgical function, it is not lawful to confuse this order or to change the prescribed texts for others selected at will, or to omit them either entirely or even in part, unless when the rubrics allow that some versicles of the text be supplied with the organ, while these versicles are simply recited in the choir.

Regarding African-American genre, again, it is important to note that even Pope John Paul II noted that (and this is not specifically aimed at this style, but, it certainly applies):

1. In continuity with the teachings of St Pius X and the Second Vatican Council, it is necessary first of all to emphasize that music destined for sacred rites must have holiness as its reference point: indeed, “sacred music increases in holiness to the degree that it is intimately linked with liturgical action”[11]. For this very reason, “not all without distinction that is outside the temple (profanum) is fit to cross its threshold”, my venerable Predecessor Paul VI wisely said, commenting on a Decree of the Council of Trent[12]. And he explained that “if music - instrumental and vocal - does not possess at the same time the sense of prayer, dignity and beauty, it precludes the entry into the sphere of the sacred and the religious”[13]. Today, moreover, the meaning of the category “sacred music” has been broadened to include repertoires that cannot be part of the celebration without violating the spirit and norms of the Liturgy itself.

St Pius X’s reform aimed specifically at purifying Church music from the contamination of profane theatrical music that in many countries had polluted the repertoire and musical praxis of the Liturgy. In our day too, careful thought, as I emphasized in the Encyclical Ecclesia de Eucharistia, should be given to the fact that not all the expressions of figurative art or of music are able “to express adequately the mystery grasped in the fullness of the Church’s faith”[14]. Consequently, not all forms of music can be considered suitable for liturgical celebrations.

…6. The music and song requested by the liturgical reform - it is right to stress this point - must comply with the legitimate demands of adaptation and inculturation. It is clear, however, that any innovation in this sensitive matter must respect specific criteria such as the search for musical expressions which respond to the necessary involvement of the entire assembly in the celebration and which, at the same time, avoid any concessions to frivolity or superficiality. Likewise, on the whole, those elitist forms of “inculturation” which introduce into the Liturgy ancient or contemporary compositions of possible artistic value, but that indulge in a language that is incomprehensible to the majority, should be avoided.

In this regard St Pius X pointed out - using the term universal - a further prerequisite of music destined for worship: “…while every nation”, he noted, “is permitted to admit into its ecclesiastical compositions those special forms which may be said to constitute its native music, still these forms must be subordinate in such a manner to the general character of sacred music, that nobody of any nation may receive an impression other than good on hearing them”[16]. In other words, the sacred context of the celebration must never become a laboratory for experimentation or permit forms of composition and performance to be introduced without careful review.

When our rector became pastor of the Cathedral (before it was elevated to the dignity of a Cathedral), he put the kibosh on the Mariachis rght away. Unfortunately, when a new administrator came in, he brought them back. It was horrible. These guys were playing the Gloria even into the second Sunday of Advent, and each week, it was the same dribble. When we got a new director of worship for the diocese, he, a native from Mexico, got rid of the Mariachis right away. Unfortunately, the new administrator (another native from Mexico) brought them back and now he wishes he hadn’t.

 

[benedictgal]

What about all the faithful who find that kind of music conducive to their worship and enjoy singing and playing and worshiping with it? Are you going to deny the Church’s youth (across America, at least) the music they love?

I mention youth specifically because we haven’t even touched on the newest Catholic composers on the playing field–Matt Maher, Steve Angrisano, Tom Booth, Sarah Hart, and so on. Just pick up an OCP Catalog and you’ll see what I mean. Really, benedictgal, Marty Haugen and David Haas are old news as far as liturgical music goes. They’re yesterday.

So now we have “youth bands” playing rock and pop and gospel or jazz style music during their Masses–and we would do…what? Toss them books of chant they are incapable of singing?

So you’d have massive groups of Catholic youth musicians who no longer have a place in their home parishes because they are not allowed to play or sing the music they are capable of playing or singing and they find it hard to worship in a musical style with which they cannot identity.

Well, where are they going to go?

Protestant churches, if we’re lucky. If people can’t get what they want at home, they’re going to go after it where they can.

Is there a solution for all the mess we have on our hands? I’m not sure; I certainly don’t have one. Who’s to blame? The liturgical music publishers, probably. But I think that Rome definitely dropped the ball on things as well. They had the opportunity to clip David Haas in the bud when his first pieces were making their way into New Dawn’s hymnals. Rome easily could have said, “Who, whoa! That’s not what we meant when we said…” or “That song is way off the mark!” But nobody did anything or said anything and so this–the music sung and played in Catholic churches all over–is the result of it.

I imagine that you might fall under this group, since, according to your profile, you are 17. I do not want to engage in generalities, but, I am going by what I have read on your page and what you have written.

Do you really think that chant is that had to sing? Our public school system down here is not particularly stellar, but, when we had a children’s choir at the Cathedal, they were able to sing the English chant versions of the Attende Domine, Jesu Dulcis Memoria and Veni, Veni Emmanuel. Even our parish’s children’s choir has been able to tackle the original Latin version of Pange Lingua. It is not as hard as you paint it to be.

The problem with the particular genres that you cite is that they are not compatible with the very nature of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Music for the Mass needs to be genuinely sacred. Maybe it would help if you read the Chirograph that Pope John Paul II wrote to mark the 100th anniversary of the MP written by Pope St. Pius X. You can find it here at:

adoremus.org/Chirograph-SacredMusic.html

Interestingly enough, Pope St. Pius X, I believe, foresaw statements such as what you have written:

A desire to see the decorum, dignity and holiness of the liturgical functions flourishing again in all places has determined Us to make known by a special writing under Our own hand Our will with regard to the sacred music which is employed in the service of public worship. We cherish the hope that all will second Us in this desired restoration, not merely with that blind submission, always laudable though it be, which is accorded out of a pure spirit of obedience to commands that are onerous and contrary to one’s own manner of thinking and feeling, but with that alacrity of will which springs from the intimate persuasion of having to do so on grounds duly weighed, clear, evident, and beyond question.

Even a little reflection on the end for which art is admitted to the service of public worship, and on the supreme fitness of offering to the Lord only things in themselves good, and where possible excellent, will at once serve to show that the prescriptions of the Church regarding sacred music are but the immediate application of those two fundamental principles. When the clergy and choirmasters are penetrated with them, good sacred music flourishes spontaneously, as has been constantly observed, and continues to be observed in a great many places; when on the contrary those principles are neglected, neither prayers, admonitions, severe and repeated orders nor threats of canonical penalties suffice to effect any change; for passion, and when not passion a shameful and inexcusable ignorance, always finds a means of eluding the will of the Church, and continuing for years in the same reprehensible way.

When I mentioned the problem of music to Archbishop Malcolm Ranjinth, the now former secretary to the CDWDS, he told me that he was well aware of the problem. He told me that a document from the CDWDS would be forthcoming. He had predicted early 2009, (he told me this in November 2008); however, with the changes in administration at the Congregation, it was probably pushed back. However, I am reminded of what my parochial vicar once told me: the wheels of Rome grind slowly, but, they grind finely.

 

[Victorious]

What about all the faithful who find that kind of music conducive to their worship and enjoy singing and playing and worshiping with it? Are you going to deny the Church’s youth (across America, at least) the music they love?

I mention youth specifically because we haven’t even touched on the newest Catholic composers on the playing field–Matt Maher, Steve Angrisano, Tom Booth, Sarah Hart, and so on. Just pick up an OCP Catalog and you’ll see what I mean. Really, benedictgal, Marty Haugen and David Haas are old news as far as liturgical music goes. They’re yesterday.

So now we have “youth bands” playing rock and pop and gospel or jazz style music during their Masses–and we would do…what? Toss them books of chant they are incapable of singing?

So you’d have massive groups of Catholic youth musicians who no longer have a place in their home parishes because they are not allowed to play or sing the music they are capable of playing or singing and they find it hard to worship in a musical style with which they cannot identity.

Well, where are they going to go?

Protestant churches, if we’re lucky. If people can’t get what they want at home, they’re going to go after it where they can.

Is there a solution for all the mess we have on our hands? I’m not sure; I certainly don’t have one. Who’s to blame? The liturgical music publishers, probably. But I think that Rome definitely dropped the ball on things as well. They had the opportunity to clip David Haas in the bud when his first pieces were making their way into New Dawn’s hymnals. Rome easily could have said, “Who, whoa! That’s not what we meant when we said…” or “That song is way off the mark!” But nobody did anything or said anything and so this–the music sung and played in Catholic churches all over–is the result of it.

What about if all the faithful stop putting their own selfish considerations first?

P.S. Why do you have such a low opinion of kids as to think they’re incapable of chant? Youth is the best time to learn chant.

P.P.S. How many “youth bands” are predominated by people under 30?

 

[passus]

I imagine that you might fall under this group, since, according to your profile, you are 17. I do not want to engage in generalities, but, I am going by what I have read on your page and what you have written.

I’m actually sort of a special case for people in my age group.

I am a classically trained musician and that’s where my interest lies. I am one of the two organists at my church and on the weekends that I’m not accompanying the Sunday morning choir, I cantor.

I dislike these types of music as much as you do and I would be in Heaven if every single Breaking Bread in that church were replaced with an Adoremus Hymnal and we chanted exclusively. I do, however, realize that my vision is horribly un-realistic and so I resign myself to playing Be Not Afraid and the occasional hymn and I force myself to enjoy doing so and I do it exceedingly well because, as a musician, I have to.

Regardless, I have had opportunities to play with our parish’s youth “band,” with which I consider myself nominally involved, and I have seen first hand the kind of attraction the other youth (and a surprising number of adults, as well) have to this music and the prayer and devotion it inspires in them. And it’s like that with Catholic youth groups all over the place. I could never support a kind of reform that would leave them with, literally, nothing to do because I know we’d lose them.

Do you really think that chant is that had to sing? Our public school system down here is not particularly stellar, but, when we had a children’s choir at the Cathedal, they were able to sing the English chant versions of the Attende Domine, Jesu Dulcis Memoria and Veni, Veni Emmanuel. Even our parish’s children’s choir has been able to tackle the original Latin version of Pange Lingua. It is not as hard as you paint it to be.

At our church, we’ve been fortunate to have received a new pastor only a couple weeks ago and one issue that concerned him was the state of the music at what’s traditionally our “youth Mass.” At a liturgy meeting, someone suggested that we purchase some copies of Spirit & Song (I’m not sure if you’re familiar, but it’s basically a collection of pop tunes set to diluted Christian lyrics) and use that. I found the idea so uninspiring and trite. *Anyone *can sing pop tunes. And so I went out on a limb and suggested that we introduce Latin chant to our church’s youth, offering as much help as I possibly could with instruction and teaching, organization, practices, workshops, rehearsals, etc.

If you could have seen the faces of 10 dazed and confused adults staring at me! It was a sight to behold.

Needless to say, my idea was totally shot down and one factor that kept coming up was that it is very difficult to sing on pitch without an instrumental accompaniment, as in the style of traditionally sung chant.

I do, in fact, think that singing well is very difficult. I sing. Because I am very familiar with chant, I would have no problem sight-reading a piece (I’d still need to practice it, though), but someone who does not read music or who has not sung professionally or who had no knowledge of Church Latin would understandably have a very difficult time.

(By the way, I think chant in any other language than Latin is just lame.)

When I mentioned the problem of music to Archbishop Malcolm Ranjinth, the now former secretary to the CDWDS, he told me that he was well aware of the problem. He told me that a document from the CDWDS would be forthcoming. He had predicted early 2009, (he told me this in November 2008); however, with the changes in administration at the Congregation, it was probably pushed back. However, I am reminded of what my parochial vicar once told me: the wheels of Rome grind slowly, but, they grind finely.

I’ve not heard of anything like this from anywhere else but needless to say, I’m very excited by the prospect and I’ll be eagerly awaiting word from the CDWDS. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[passus]

What about if all the faithful stop putting their own selfish considerations first?

Good luck getting the faithful to do that when there are no faithful left.

P.S. Why do you have such a low opinion of kids as to think they’re incapable of chant? Youth is the best time to learn chant.

Performing chant requires a vocal maturity and certain pre-requisite musical experience unknown to most average kids.

Source: I am a kid. eek

P.P.S. How many “youth bands” are predominated by people under 30?

I don’t really get what you’re asking. I have never known any other definition of “youth band” (emphasis on “youth”) that would lend itself to musicians older than 30.

 

[Victorious]

Good luck getting the faithful to do that when there are no faithful left.

In other words, we should lower our standards to the point where they’re already met.

Performing chant requires a vocal maturity and certain pre-requisite musical experience unknown to most average kids.

Only because nobody has bothered to teach them. (And by the way, I’m not a complete ignoramus when it comes to chant.)

Source: I am a kid. eek

Then why do you want to sound like the condescending adults who have such low opinions of kids?