12 Safety Rules for Catholic Dating - Agree or Disagree?

[ack]

Regarding the list of rules, I think they can be summed up by one guideline: “Don’t get significantly sexually aroused before marriage”.

The general principle and most of the rules is sound, although having a long list of rules seems unnecessary, and some of them seem ridiculous (“never be alone together”). If someone can’t ever be alone with a significant other without falling into sexual sin, then they have some self-control issues that need to be resolved. The need for self-control doesn’t end when one gets married, as there will be plenty of opportunities for married people to sin with each other (or with others). Some of the rules look more appropriate for teenagers who aren’t ready to marry yet (how could one never be alone with a fiancee?).

However, if it is necessary for some individual to completely avoid being alone with a fiancee, then they should do what they need to do.

 

[ack]

I think that as the wedding approaches, a couple SHOULD do a little “arousal practice” with some prolonged passionate kissing. I think this is helps them to anticipate and look forward to married sex, and helps them not to develop scrupulous phobias about sex.

I’m not married and I don’t have any experience here, but I have read some threads over the years where newlyweds were having guilt or phobias about sex. One of the common scenarios was when a couple “went to far” before getting married and had difficulty restoring purity to their relationship. The couples later developed extreme guilt and sexual issues during their marriage, as a result of having to psychologically “shut down their sex drive” in a last-ditch effort to end their premarital sins.

My point is that arousing activity before marriage can cause the development of phobias about sex, and not just prevent them.

Getting aroused is not sinful. Acting on the arousal (if you are not married) is a sin, or masturbating to relieve the arousal.

Merely getting aroused is not sinful, but it is sinful to intentionally enter an arousing situation with the objective (in whole or in part) of getting aroused, when the person is not your spouse.

 

[Gwendolen]

Sounds like the main focus of these rules is to prevent any action of impurity. While that is a good goal, as the purpose of dating (after teen years) is to discern marriage, you need to make sure that you have allowed enough room for a couple to actually do this. If a couple is always engaged in an activity and never alone together, how are they supposed to develop any kind of spiritual intimacy, and a discussion of life goals?

With the possible exception of prayer, it really did seem that most of these “rules” had sex in mind. There is so much more to dating than preventing fornication.

I would like to see a list address more “red flag” behavior, making sure one isn’t being isolated from family, friends, studies, etc

A balance of a potential mate being able to prioritize the relationship, without smothering would have been nice.

while “never be alone together” is extreme, something about spending ample time with family and friends, and seeing how well a potential mate fits into your life is good.

Instead of “always be doing something active”, maybe seeing if you can find activities you really enjoy doing together. The former is “keep you from fornicating” the latter is “starting to build a life together, common interests, and enjoyed activities”.

the way the list reads, all I can think is, well, after they didn’t have sex during all that time dating, they will get married, then finally got to have sex, they are going to have their morning prayer, and then be looking at each other thinking "now what?

Instead of rules for dating, which would be more general, and include activities that would help one discern marriage, this list should be retitled “how to not to even get close to the possibility of committing the sin of fornication while dating”

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Sounds like the main focus of these rules is to prevent any action of impurity. While that is a good goal, as the purpose of dating (after teen years) is to discern marriage, you need to make sure that you have allowed enough room for a couple to actually do this. If a couple is always engaged in an activity and never alone together, how are they supposed to develop any kind of spiritual intimacy, and a discussion of life goals?

With the possible exception of prayer, it really did seem that most of these “rules” had sex in mind. There is so much more to dating than preventing fornication.

I would like to see a list address more “red flag” behavior, making sure one isn’t being isolated from family, friends, studies, etc

A balance of a potential mate being able to prioritize the relationship, without smothering would have been nice.

while “never be alone together” is extreme, something about spending ample time with family and friends, and seeing how well a potential mate fits into your life is good.

Instead of “always be doing something active”, maybe seeing if you can find activities you really enjoy doing together. The former is “keep you from fornicating” the latter is “starting to build a life together, common interests, and enjoyed activities”.

the way the list reads, all I can think is, well, after they didn’t have sex during all that time dating, they will get married, then finally got to have sex, they are going to have their morning prayer, and then be looking at each other thinking "now what?

Instead of rules for dating, which would be more general, and include activities that would help one discern marriage, this list should be retitled “how to not to even get close to the possibility of committing the sin of fornication while dating”

Here are a few of my “red flags” for people who are dating.

1. He/she does not take faith seriously.
2. Family relationships are dysfunctional.
3. Alcohol/drug use including family.
4. Is in debt and has no plan to fix that.
5. Works more than 50 hours per week voluntarily (unless the person is in the restaurant business but then I would never date such a person anyway )
6. Sees nothing wrong with sex before marriage as long as it’s “responsible” sex, does not object to gay marriage, says abortion should be an individual decision, is fine with artificial birth control.

 

[cmscms]

To be honest, if you can’t sit alone with someone without controlling yourself that’s just borderline immaturity.

QUOTE]

I 100% agree with this. I knew a guy briefly and broke up with him because of this. I was about 22 and saw him twice in public. After that all he wanted to do was for me to come over or come to my place. Everytime I suggested we play cards or watch TV, in less than 2 minutes he would make a move. I would tell him ‘no’ and try to resume the card game or watch TV and less than 5 minutes later he would try to make another move.

I went over/he came over maybe 5-6 times and it was always the same thing. After 2-3 of his attempts, I would say ‘Leave’ or I would go home. I though the guy was a nut case for not even being able to hold a conversation for more than 5 minutes. I was young and his good looks fooled me but only for a month. I know think of his face and he is ugly.

As for prolonged kissing. This may be off colour but I will post anyways. It is a well know fact that prostitues will not kiss on the lips. Apparently it is because they won’t fall in love if they don’t kiss and that way, they can detach their work from their bodies. Once they kiss, they fall in love with their client and that is a no-no for them.

Well… if a man was not capable of kissing me passionately, I would wonder if he is capable of being loving to me once we are married. If at first he wanted to get to know me before making a move, I would be happy he values himself. But if he NEVER wanted to show any affection what so ever, I would wonder

CM

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Agree with all of them except the qualification of being alone together - a couple ought to be able to be someone alone, as in, they take a walk around the block after dinner at the parent’s home. But nothing like driving around aimlessly in a car, or going to the movies or some other location where they might be tempted to make out.

Wait, no going to the movies?

Both of my dates (we don’t normally have specific “dates” so much as just see and talk with each other) have involved going to the movies, and I didn’t consider it “alone”.

Whatever the shows and movies tell you I’ll tell you that when you’re at a movie theater with other people there you will feel awfully self-conscious if you start making out. Trust me, you feel very aware of the people around you.

 

[Norseman82]

Here are a few of my “red flags” for people who are dating.

1. Family relationships are dysfunctional.
2. Alcohol/drug use including family.

If the person you are dating is using alcohol or drugs, that is one thing, but if someone in his/her family uses, you are going to punish him/her for something that is not under his/her control? The only thing to be concerned about regarding such family members is whether one can stand up to them if they get out of line or whether one would trust one’s children with them.

 

[Byrnwiga]

yeah, killed it.

this sounds like a mormon list to me.

Well, the Mormons are more successful at marrying people off in their church. So in that case, the list can’t be half bad.

-Byrnwiga

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Wait, no going to the movies?

Both of my dates (we don’t normally have specific “dates” so much as just see and talk with each other) have involved going to the movies, and I didn’t consider it “alone”.

Whatever the shows and movies tell you I’ll tell you that when you’re at a movie theater with other people there you will feel awfully self-conscious if you start making out. Trust me, you feel very aware of the people around you.

No kidding. I think impulsive 13 or 14 year olds are tempted to make out in theatres. Not adults.

 

[SMHW]

I guess I’ll add my take on this.

Rules

1. Be sure your life is based firmly on prayer

This is the right thing to do whether one is dating or not.

1. Never be alone together

This would be good advice when one is first dating. But when the relationship moves beyond that point to the courting phase and on into engagement it is just plain impractical in most cultures.

1. Watch your conversations

This is good advice from the standpoint of avoiding impure conversations but I think there is more to it. Women are not guy buddies and men are not gal pals. Hopefully spouses will someday be “best friends” but it doesn’t hurt men and women to figure out early that this other person will never meet the need for same sex friendship.

1. Make your time together active times

Again, this is good for when couples are first dating but perhaps not when the relationship grows deeper. (This also depends on the definition of “active”.)

1. Make sure your activities are wholesome

This is good advice for life in general.

1. Dress appropriately and modestly

Yes.

1. Avoid actions that cause arousal

It is a matter of kindness not to torture your date or yourself. Not all arousal can be avoided and if a couple is planning to marry then it should probably be a red flag if neither party experiences it. If one’s “partner” (for lack of a better term) is seeking to be aroused then that’s a problem too.

1. Be honest about yourself:

Yes.

1. Be honest with yourself:

Double yes.

1. Keep any kisses to a quick peck

Again, this is likely going to be progressive matter if and when the relationship progresses toward marriage.

1. End it as soon as you realize this is not the person for you

Definitely

1. Don’t be secretive about your dating:

In general I would think secret dating is a bad idea. I can’t think of a good reason for secret dating unless one has family and friends who would be harmful to one’s dating choice. In the case of friends, one would wonder why have such people as friends. In the case of family… well, perhaps dating in general is a bad idea until one is sufficiently independent of such a family.

%between%

 

[SMHW]

If the person you are dating is using alcohol or drugs, that is one thing, but if someone in his/her family uses, you are going to punish him/her for something that is not under his/her control? The only thing to be concerned about regarding such family members is whether one can stand up to them if they get out of line or whether one would trust one’s children with them.

A red flag is not an absolute reason not to date someone. But it does suggest that this is an issue that is likely never to go away. So one should be ready to face it now, in one year, in five years, ten years, thirty years, and perhaps until one is on one’s deathbed.

 

[TrixieMcGee]

I am sure glad my husband didn’t see my uncle being a drug addict as a red flag. I am glad he didn’t judge me according to my families actions. Like when some family members went to my old Churchs’ elders to get me excommunicated for dating a Catholic. I am glad he didn’t abandon me for such nonsense out of my control.

 

[thunderboom]

No kidding. I think impulsive 13 or 14 year olds are tempted to make out in theatres. Not adults.

• “What? What did I do?”
• “How could you?”
• “How could I what?”
• “You were making out during Schindler’s List!”
• “What? No!”
• “Don’t lie, Jerry.”
• (turns) “Newman!”

 

[chevalier]

If the person you are dating is using alcohol or drugs, that is one thing, but if someone in his/her family uses, you are going to punish him/her for something that is not under his/her control? The only thing to be concerned about regarding such family members is whether one can stand up to them if they get out of line or whether one would trust one’s children with them.

I don’t think she’s thinking in terms of guilt by association. She may simply fear that issues in family may have rubbed off on the man. Or the lack of positive role models or the presence of negative ones. As someone who did grow up in a broken family first and then a family afflicted with many problems, I can tell you I understand her concerns and looking at me, I can see that life’s very hard and I’m certainly not unscathed — I score very high in ACA tests, although none of my parents drank, it can’t not affect people close to me, despite my best efforts, and I can see why someone would prefer not to come on board with me. One would only be delusional and wrong if one mistook risk for certainty or grossly misjudged the gravity of certain issues (especially in comparison with others)… and obviously if one actually considered me responsible for those things. That type of thinking would actually be a red flag for me.

Besides, if, hypothetically, Catholic women all decided (or generally women all decided) they didn’t want to share life with a guy from a broken family and closely related to another couple of broken families, then I’d very happily marry relieve them of my attention. They’d instantly lose appeal to me to the point I’d prefer to devote myself harder to work instead.

 

[twoangels]

1. Be sure your life is based firmly on prayer Agree
   1. Never be alone together Oversimplified and problematic
   2. Watch your conversations How about cultivating virtue within the entirety of your life so that wholesome conversations are your norm?
   3. Make your time together active times Because introverts can’t be chaste?
   4. Make sure your activities are wholesome ** As opposed to what you do when you’re not on a date?**
   5. Dress appropriately and modestly As opposed to the immodest attire you wear when you’re not dating?
   6. Avoid actions that cause arousal **Because sexual tension and arousal is never built upon resistance. Oversimplified **
   7. Be honest about yourself: ** Because you know you just want to lie about yourself? **
   8. Be honest with yourself: About?
2. Keep any kisses to a quick peck Oversimplified
3. End it as soon as you realize this is not the person for you Agreed
4. Don’t be secretive about your dating: Is this advise for teens?

 

[TrueLight]

Thanks everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I believe never spending time alone means not spending time alone at each other’s house’s for example.

You can go out to a restaurant, which is a public place. But pulling up to a parking spot after sunset to enjoy the cool breeze and lovely ocean view is probably not a good idea.

 

[TrueLight]

I think that as the wedding approaches, a couple SHOULD do a little “arousal practice” with some prolonged passionate kissing. I think this is helps them to anticipate and look forward to married sex, and helps them not to develop scrupulous phobias about sex.

I agree with those that .

I don’t know. This type of “arousal” practice can lead to the wedding night not being the first night together after all.

“Oh come on. We’ll be married in a week anyway.”

I think it is awesome that you dated so long and never went “all the way”. Unfortunately, a lot of people are not that strong, which is why in traditional circles, Catholic and Protestant, long engagements (2-3 years) are discouraged unless the parties are really young.

 

[TrueLight]

I agree with them. Frankly, at any age where it still makes sense to get married there will likely be temptation.

-Byrnwiga

Exactly. It can be a strong temptation at any age. In fact, the more you know, the more you want.

I have heard people say, it’s not like you’re a virgin. What are you protecting?

 

[TrueLight]

1. End it as soon as you realize this is not the person for you
   Disagree. There is nothing wrong with dating someone you get along with and enjoy being with even if you do not see that person as your future spouse. I think we learn from these relationships. Also, 16 year olds are not in a position to know who the person for them is, but that does not mean they cannot date.

Assuming we’re not taking about 16 year olds, the purpose of dating/courting is to discern marriage. Do ou agree? That is not to say you cannot go out with friends of the opposite sex, but if one is dating, one should be dating with a purpose. If you find out quickly that the person does not have the traits you are looking for in a marriage, the correct and charitable thing to do is to end it before the other person becomes more attached to you.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

If the person you are dating is using alcohol or drugs, that is one thing, but if someone in his/her family uses, you are going to punish him/her for something that is not under his/her control? The only thing to be concerned about regarding such family members is whether one can stand up to them if they get out of line or whether one would trust one’s children with them.

I agree.

It’s also worth pointing out that this seems like a lovely rule as long as you’re not part of a dysfunctional family yourself. All of a sudden it seems rather unfair, right?