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Eric_Hilbert
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Please observe the two paragraph rule.
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ChadS
Guest
I think the thing to remember is that despite what we’d like to think psychology and therapy and our understanding of it 30 years wasn’t nearly as advanced as it is today. The things that happened 30 years ago would be inexcusable today, but then it was the best treatment available. Of course what happened then was still a tragedy and should’ve been dealt with more forcefully, but they thought what they were doing was right and all the professionals in the know told them it was right. I’ve had conversations with people where I try to point this out, but what I’m told is “They should’ve known.” How are we supposed to know when most indications say this is the way you should proceed.
ChadS
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Corki
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It’s a great article. But the comments posted by readers make me want to throw up. What are these haters doing reading the NCRegister anyway?!?! It’s a newspaper whose target readership is faithful Catholics. Hopefully some authentically Catholic posts will start evening up the discussion.
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TMC
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Given its history on the topic, I think every Catholic should take everything the NCRegister has to say about this topic with a big grain of salt.
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Non_Serviam
Guest
Please note that This publication is published by Circle Media which is the publication arm of the Legion of Christ
(yes *that legion)
They have more than a bit of self-interest in making this scandal go away-and a puff piece like this with no hard facts should be shunned by Catholics who have been howling about “shoddy journalism” for the last two weeks.
(yes *that legion)
They have more than a bit of self-interest in making this scandal go away-and a puff piece like this with no hard facts should be shunned by Catholics who have been howling about “shoddy journalism” for the last two weeks.
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josie_L
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May I know what part of the article you find to be erroneous?Please note that This publication is published by Circle Media which is the publication arm of the Legion of Christ
(yes *that legion)
They have more than a bit of self-interest in making this scandal go away-and a puff piece like this with no hard facts should be shunned by Catholics who have been howling about “shoddy journalism” for the last two weeks.
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Dale_M
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The article is astonishing.
“1. The crisis seems to be nearing its conclusion.”
Well, let us pray that is is so.
“2. There was no global cover-up.” Oh, I am not so sure about that. The cover-up seems to be international, and that suggests a common perspective which encouraged authorities to look the other way.
“3. Going public seemed like the wrong thing to do.”
If the victims didn’t go public, the cover-up would have continued. And presumably, the abuse continued.
The rest of the article has some valid points, but I think the beginning of the article undermined its effectiveness.
“1. The crisis seems to be nearing its conclusion.”
Well, let us pray that is is so.
“2. There was no global cover-up.” Oh, I am not so sure about that. The cover-up seems to be international, and that suggests a common perspective which encouraged authorities to look the other way.
“3. Going public seemed like the wrong thing to do.”
If the victims didn’t go public, the cover-up would have continued. And presumably, the abuse continued.The rest of the article has some valid points, but I think the beginning of the article undermined its effectiveness.
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Non_Serviam
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Sure, if you want to defend mediocre journalism by a biased source, fill your boots. Let’s take the first 3 to start:
- This is opinion, not fact. No one (outside of those involved in abuse and/or coverup) knows if there is one more story to break or hundreds.
- Why should we believe Timothy Dolan? There is credible evidence that in the case of the Legion of Christ that there was global bribery and influence purchasing within the Vatican to protect the founder Maciel ncronline.org/news/accountability/money-paved-way-maciels-influence-vatican.
- For an organization that claims a superior morality in the face of a continually more corrupt world, this excuse is asinine. As one comment on this article summed it up nicely:
The only people who believed the church was keeping quiet for the benefit of others were those who benefitting from keeping things quiet.
There are 3 points for you to chew on-I’ll leave it up to youafter that if you want to keep defending those that are trying to minimize child abuse (#9) and deception (#12) for their own gain.
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Guyonthestreet
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What about handing the offender over to the authorities.
I’ve read this justification in several places now across catholic sites, and I confess I don’t understand it.
Laicize the priest, (brother or nun) hand them to the authorities for trial, assist the courts by producing the evidence the church has on the perp, let them serve their time, then they get put on the sex offenders register for life.
It’s no longer the churchs problem, other than to succor the victims of the abuser, and to continue to pray for the abuser.
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Corki
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Handing the accussed over to the authorities is already the procedure and has been for going on 20 years now (not that it wasn’t done before but it has been standard procedure in most diocese since the late 80s). Laicization and civil process are not dependent on each other; you don’t need to laicize before getting the authorities involved. In fact, laicization is not a fast process so it would not be prudent to wait for the process before getting authorities involved.
What about handing the offender over to the authorities.
I’ve read this justification in several places now across catholic sites, and I confess I don’t understand it.
Laicize the priest, (brother or nun) hand them to the authorities for trial, assist the courts by producing the evidence the church has on the perp, let them serve their time, then they get put on the sex offenders register for life.
It’s no longer the churchs problem, other than to succor the victims of the abuser, and to continue to pray for the abuser.
A rush to laicization before due civil process may cause more problems than it solves. Take the Fr. Murphy case, for example. The authorities were involved but chose not to prosecute (or there wasn’t enough evidence, I don’t know which). The Church tried twice at least to turn the whole thing over to the authorities. That didn’t stop the Church from removing him from priestly ministry and ending his contact with minors. Had he been laicized, the Church would not have been able to restrict his activity since the authorities were not taking action.
And what would you do about a laicized priest who is then exonerated in a trial? Your scenario above assumes that all accused priests will be prosecuted, all prosecuted priests will be found (or plead) guilty and all guilty offenders will serve jail time. This doesn’t happen with non-priest offenders. Are you suggesting a different process of law for priests?
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Guyonthestreet
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ChadS
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Not so fast on this one, read this: wdtprs.com/blog/2010/04/former-vicar-general-in-archd-of-munich-denies-taking-the-fall-for-the-future-pope/
ChadS
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ChadS
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Can you imagine if the Church laicized the accused priests and they went on to offend after being dismissed from the clerical state what sort of news coverage it would bring? I think many in the MSM would be wondering why the Church didn’t keep them as priests and send them to a monastery where they could have been watched more closely instead of allowing them to go into the general population where they could do what they wanted. From a few of the things I’ve seen online when abuse cases were tried and convicted in the past, like in the 1950s, 60s and 70s, the sentences were light and sometimes they were suspended, basically letting the offender go. For the blame the Church rightly deserves in its handling the criminal justice system is culpable also. Since things like Megan’s Law and the offender database have been put into place the sentencing offenders receive today is more in line with the seriousness of their crimes then it would’ve been in times past.
ChadS
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Corki
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I don’t have to imagine - that scenario is playing out in my part of Texas right now. A Lousiana convicted abuser was turned in and convicted. He served 10 years of a 20 year sentence even though LA law says the penalty should be a life sentance with hard labor. For whatever reason, the courts went easy on him. After he got out, he was arrested for suspicion of another encounter with a child but the mother didn’t want to press charges. So they put him away for two more years based on failure to register as a sex offender. He’s about to get out again. He won’t reveal where he plans to go. He is still being indentified in the press as an ex-priest **even though he was long ago “defrocked”. I couldn’t find the exact date but he was already laicized at his sentancing in 1985 so he hasn’t been a priest for at least 25 years. The Church can’t direct his activities, she can’t put him away in a monestary, he is just going to be out and about in the general public. This is one of the “big ones” that caused all of this “scandal” to break and moved the Church to more standardized no-tolerance policies. This is Gilbert Gauthe. He is the poster child for all the mistakes the Church made. But he is also the stark contrast to the current environment of zero tolerance and protection of children.
chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6966124.html
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Darryl1958
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This is a good thing for Catholics to know for sure.
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Darryl1958
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This is something that a lot of critics would like to avoid. It is just not politically correct in our societies to voice certain truths these days.
Pedophilia is a constant throughout our society from what I understand, and the disorder affects .03 % of priest, just like it affects .03 % of all men everywhere. There is nothing at all untypical of the Catholic story.
There is no cure, is what the experts are now telling us. This was not always the storyline of the experts however.
Unfortunately, the Catholic priests went with the opinon of the experts on this one, and both the children and the Church as a whole got burned.
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josie_L
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I didn’t say it deserved a pulitzer prize, nevertheless there are many valid points made which you refuse to even acknowledge.
The author said it “seems”, i.e., there was no attempt to be definitive, however, it is true that the majority of scandals arose within this period and that 6 allegations of abuse were reported in 2009 in a church of 64 million Catholics (a result of all the changes made since 2002).
This article which you posted (I don’t know where they got all the details) does not change the fact that before 2001 there was no apparatus by which we could know the extent of abuse that was going on within the Church because such cases were handled locally. Therefore when Archbishop Timothy Dolan says there was no global coverup he means that the Church did not have a hierarchical mechanism as it did after 2001 to deal with or even be aware of all abuse cases, i.e., any cover ups were at the local level and not a global level.
I think that a poster already responded to this allegation so I’ll leave it at that.Beyond that, the Vicar-General in Munich is now claiming that he was pressured to take responsibility for the problems there to protect Benedict XVI. Next if one looks at bishop-accountability.org/ it shows priests being moved from one country to the next to avoid abuse trials. US to Mexico, US to Canada, Ireland to the US, Canada to the Vatican, etc. Sounds global to me.
The “organization” of which you speak of does not claim a superior morality in that it is free of sin but that it teaches the truth unchanged, nevertheless I do agree that even though these things were not spoken of (kept hushed hushed for reasons associated with that time) it should not have been so with the Church.
I don’t believe that the article is trying to minimize child abuse, in fact, the article stresses the reinforcements that were put into action by the Catholic Church in America to eliminate abuse in the Church (not including the changes introduced by Pope Benedict in 2001).
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