144,000: Revelations

[Lev23]

The Mystery of what the the Kingdom of the Messiah would really be like has been reveiled.

First, I’ll be honest, I am not a fan of the website you post in your signature. At least the “zionism” section of it. He seems to do alot of speaking for God. Yes God does not owe any anyone land or protection. But God chooses to do the things He does for His Holy namesake.
Ezekiel 36:37-38
"This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Once again I will yield to the plea of the house of Israel and do this for them: I will make their people as numerous as sheep, as numerous as the flocks for offerings at Jerusalem during her appointed feasts. So will the ruined cities be filled with flocks of people. Then they will know that I am the LORD."

Anyone is playing on a slippery slope when they take any prophecy of God that states it is Him saying it and why; and then teach that God won’t do it, because He doesn’t owe anyone anything. These people better make sure these prophecies have been fulfilled. In this case, I would like to hear anyone’s explanation of initially a small remnant coming back from Babylon to make a small, modest Temple is the fulfillment of the whole house of unbelieving Israel coming back to the land of Israel in Ezekiel 36 and 37.

 

[Lev23]

That being said…

The Mystery of what the the Kingdom of the Messiah would really be like has been reveiled.
**
He said to them in reply, "Because knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been granted to you, but to them it has not been granted. To anyone who has, more will be given and he will grow rich; from anyone who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because ‘they look but do not see and hear but do not listen or understand.’ Isaiah’s prophecy is fulfilled in them, which says: ‘You shall indeed hear but not understand you shall indeed look but never see. Gross is the heart of this people, they will hardly hear with their ears, they have closed their eyes, lest they see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and be converted, and I heal them.’ "But blessed are your eyes, because they see, and your ears, because they hear. Amen, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it. (Mt 13:11-17)**

It is not a physical, political, conquering power. It is an interior kingdom in which Christ lives within the lives and hearts of men and women all over the world. For this reason, it will never be defeated or uprooted, as Daniel had foretold in his vision of the statue and the beast. Because it is a spiritual rule, no unbeliever would be able to enter it, as Zechariah stated. Jesus emphasized to an unbelieving Pilate that His was a spiritual Kingdom.

Jesus answered, “My kingdom does not belong to this world. If my kingdom did belong to this world, my attendants (would) be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not here.” So Pilate said to him, “Then you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say I am a king. 16 For this I was born and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice.” (John 18:36-37)

His Kingdom is literally not of this present age, He sits at God’s right Hand until the time of the Father, Jesus will rule from Jerusalem in the Kingdom in Israel and over all the earth, and then after the events of what happens at the end of the 1000 year reign in Revelation 20:7-10, Jesus will hand the Kingdom over to the Father.

Pslam 110:1-7
The LORD says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”
The LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion;
you will rule in the midst of your enemies.
Your troops will be willing
on your day of battle.
Arrayed in holy majesty,
from the womb of the dawn
you will receive the dew of your youth.
The LORD has sworn
and will not change his mind:
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”
The Lord is at your right hand;
he will crush kings on the day of his wrath.
He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead
and crushing the rulers of the whole earth.
He will drink from a brook beside the way;
therefore he will lift up his head.

**Zechariah 14:1-21
A day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided among you.

I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime—a day known to the LORD. When evening comes, there will be light.

On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, in summer and in winter.

The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name. …
…This is the plague with which the LORD will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. On that day men will be stricken by the LORD with great panic. Each man will seize the hand of another, and they will attack each other. Judah too will fight at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—great quantities of gold and silver and clothing. A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.

Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain. If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The LORD will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

On that day HOLY TO THE LORD will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the LORD’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the LORD Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD Almighty.

1 Corinthians 15:24
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.**

At this time, yes, the Kingdom is in the hearts of His chosen ones. But this in no way goes against what God had planed for a literal Kingdom on this earth, ruled by His Son, Jesus.

Everything in prophecy that is to be restored and fulfilled before the New Heavens and earth, will be done by Jesus Christ.

 

[Lev23]

Jesus answered, “My kingdom does not belong to this world. If my kingdom did belong to this world, my attendants (would) be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not here.” So Pilate said to him, “Then you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say I am a king. 16 For this I was born and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice.” (John 18:36-37)

The parable of the sower an the soils teaches that entrance to the Kingdom is open to all, but is dependent on a personal response to the “word” (Mt 13:3-23). The public encounter with His family reveals that, in the Kingdom, what matters is no longer a holy bloodline, but doing the will of my Father in Heaven (Mt 12:50). In the parable of the weeds and the wheat, Jesus explains that His Kingdom will have loyal, obedient subjects mingled with the evil and traitorous (Mt 13:24-30, 36-43). This is reiterated in the parable of the fishes (Mt 13:47-51).

In your explanation you state-“what matters is no longer a holy bloodline, but doing the will of my Father in Heaven (Mt 12:50).”

True. But isn’t it interesting that God still chooses Israel to do His works here on earth, even in the tribulation? He chooses them, they are not selected by men. Just like the 12 Israeli Apostles. How many of them would of been chosen by men to be Church leaders? God is still sovereign in His choices. And I for one am glad He chooses gentiles to come to faith by His Son Jesus. Not only that, but Jews and Gentiles together in Jesus are a new creation. But this does not go against the prophecies of God’s judgement of the nations, and the restoration of the land and people of Israel, and the Kingdom rule of the Messiah from Israel before eternity, all fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

Face it, at this time, outside the Church there still is Jew and Gentile, which is sad.

 

[ryanoneil]

The 144,000 sealed will take place in the last sabbatical year of Daniel’s 70 weeks. I understand that what Christ said in Matthew 24 has dual implications for Jerusalem and the people there, but the 144,000 is for sure a event that will happen in the tribulation.

I was only pointing out that the early Church believed that the tribulation has taken place and the blessings of the seventy weeks have already been bestowed. I’m not saying there won’t be a still-future final fulfillment.

 

[ryanoneil]

First, I’ll be honest, I am not a fan of the website you post in your signature. At least the “zionism” section of it. He seems to do alot of speaking for God. Yes God does not owe any anyone land or protection. But God chooses to do the things He does for His Holy namesake.
Ezekiel 36:37-38
"This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Once again I will yield to the plea of the house of Israel and do this for them: I will make their people as numerous as sheep, as numerous as the flocks for offerings at Jerusalem during her appointed feasts. So will the ruined cities be filled with flocks of people. Then they will know that I am the LORD."

Anyone is playing on a slippery slope when they take any prophecy of God that states it is Him saying it and why; and then teach that God won’t do it, because He doesn’t owe anyone anything. These people better make sure these prophecies have been fulfilled. In this case, I would like to hear anyone’s explanation of initially a small remnant coming back from Babylon to make a small, modest Temple is the fulfillment of the whole house of unbelieving Israel coming back to the land of Israel in Ezekiel 36 and 37.

Read the Acts of the Apostles. The outline of the book itself shows the Apostles restoring the ideal Davidic kingdom in Jerusalem, in Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth, following the mandate of Christ himself. (Acts 1:8).

Jerusalem (Acts 1-7). Pay particular attention to (Acts 2) when “devout Jews” from everywhere in the Dispersion had heard and accepted the message Peter brought them: the message that the Kingdom was restored, and that the perfect King prophesied long ago was now reigning. Then they go to Judea and Samaria (Acts 8). With the conversion of Paul (Acts 9), the scene moves for a time to Damascus - part of David’s conquered territory outside Israel. Then the mission to the Gentiles begins in earnest (Acts 10). From there, to Antioch ( Acts 11), then to Cyprus (Acts 13), to Asia Minor (Acts 13), to Greece (Acts 16-20), and finally to Rome which was considered the ends of the earth (Acts 27-28).

 

[ryanoneil]

That being said…
His Kingdom is literally not of this present age, He sits at God’s right Hand until the time of the Father, Jesus will rule from Jerusalem in the Kingdom in Israel and over all the earth, and then after the events of what happens at the end of the 1000 year reign in Revelation 20:7-10, Jesus will hand the Kingdom over to the Father.

At this time, yes, the Kingdom is in the hearts of His chosen ones. But this in no way goes against what God had planed for a literal Kingdom on this earth, ruled by His Son, Jesus.

Everything in prophecy that is to be restored and fulfilled before the New Heavens and earth, will be done by Jesus Christ.

I’m sure I can’t convince you otherwise, but the overwhelming majority of believers never have and never will believe in a literal 1000 year earthly reign of Christ. They believe we are in the 1000 years now and Zechariah was fulfilled during and shortly after Christ’s first advent.

I could disect a bit of Zechariah 14 if you like.

 

[ryanoneil]

In your explanation you state-“what matters is no longer a holy bloodline, but doing the will of my Father in Heaven (Mt 12:50).”

True. But isn’t it interesting that God still chooses Israel to do His works here on earth, even in the tribulation? He chooses them, they are not selected by men. Just like the 12 Israeli Apostles. How many of them would of been chosen by men to be Church leaders? God is still sovereign in His choices. And I for one am glad He chooses gentiles to come to faith by His Son Jesus. Not only that, but Jews and Gentiles together in Jesus are a new creation. But this does not go against the prophecies of God’s judgement of the nations, and the restoration of the land and people of Israel, and the Kingdom rule of the Messiah from Israel before eternity, all fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

Face it, at this time, outside the Church there still is Jew and Gentile, which is sad.

Praise God for His perfect judment. He sees what we cannot. Thank God for His new creation as well. We still see Jew and Gentile but God sees wheat and the tares (Mt 13:24-30; 36-43).

 

[Lev23]

Read the Acts of the Apostles. The outline of the book itself shows the Apostles restoring the ideal Davidic kingdom in Jerusalem, in Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth, following the mandate of Christ himself. (Acts 1:8).

Jerusalem (Acts 1-7). Pay particular attention to (Acts 2) when “devout Jews” from everywhere in the Dispersion had heard and accepted the message Peter brought them: the message that the Kingdom was restored, and that the perfect King prophesied long ago was now reigning. Then they go to Judea and Samaria (Acts 8). With the conversion of Paul (Acts 9), the scene moves for a time to Damascus - part of David’s conquered territory outside Israel. Then the mission to the Gentiles begins in earnest (Acts 10). From there, to Antioch ( Acts 11), then to Cyprus (Acts 13), to Asia Minor (Acts 13), to Greece (Acts 16-20), and finally to Rome which was considered the ends of the earth (Acts 27-28).

Good points, but you are missing one important fact of the Kingdom in Israel, Jesus will be there, glorified and really physically there in Jeruslem.

**Acts 1:6-7
So when they met together, they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.

Acts 3:21
He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. **

 

[Lev23]

I’m sure I can’t convince you otherwise, but the overwhelming majority of believers never have and never will believe in a literal 1000 year earthly reign of Christ. They believe we are in the 1000 years now and Zechariah was fulfilled during and shortly after Christ’s first advent.

I could disect a bit of Zechariah 14 if you like.

Well all those who never believed in this literal reign of Jesus will rejoice when they learn there really will be a literal reign. There is nothing scandulous about the literal reign of Jesus, all believers in Him will rejoice.

As far as Zech 14, disect if you wish to, I’ll check it out. Thanks.

 

[Lev23]

Praise God for His perfect judment. He sees what we cannot. Thank God for His new creation as well. We still see Jew and Gentile but God sees wheat and the tares (Mt 13:24-30; 36-43).

True, but the broken branches of Israel still have a prophetic signifigance.

 

[ryanoneil]

Good points, but you are missing one important fact of the Kingdom in Israel, Jesus will be there, glorified and really physically there in Jeruslem.

**Acts 1:6-7
So when they met together, they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.

Acts 3:21
He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. **

We don’t believe Jesus returns in (Rev 20:4). He reigns from heaven. When He comes again in glory He will immediately repay every man for what he has done.

**For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father’s glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct. (Matt 16:27)

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. (Matt 25:31-33).**

For it is surely just on God’s part to repay with afflictions those who are afflicting you, and to grant rest along with us to you who are undergoing afflictions, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his mighty angels, in blazing fire, inflicting punishment on those who do not acknowledge God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal ruin, separated from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power, (2 Thes 1:6-9)

We believe this happens after (Rev 20:9) and everything is restored and fulfilled in Rev 21.

Well all those who never believed in this literal reign of Jesus will rejoice when they learn there really will be a literal reign. There is nothing scandulous about the literal reign of Jesus, all believers in Him will rejoice.

**Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, God’s dwelling is with the human race. He will dwell with them and they will be his people and God himself will always be with them (as their God). He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death or mourning, wailing or pain, (for) the old order has passed away.” The one who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Then he said, “Write these words down, for they are trustworthy and true.” **

As far as Zech 14, disect if you wish to, I’ll check it out. Thanks.

I don’t have the time I did when I originally posted this.

True, but the broken branches of Israel still have a prophetic signifigance.

Yes they do, but not in the sense of Jesus being there earthly political leader.

 

[Lev23]

I don’t have the time I did when I originally posted this.

No problem. Sorry, I realized I took a very long time to reply.

 

[Lev23]

We don’t believe Jesus returns in (Rev 20:4). He reigns from heaven. When He comes again in glory He will immediately repay every man for what he has done.

**For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father’s glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct. (Matt 16:27)

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. (Matt 25:31-33).**

For it is surely just on God’s part to repay with afflictions those who are afflicting you, and to grant rest along with us to you who are undergoing afflictions, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his mighty angels, in blazing fire, inflicting punishment on those who do not acknowledge God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal ruin, separated from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power, (2 Thes 1:6-9)

We believe this happens after (Rev 20:9) and everything is restored and fulfilled in Rev 21.

**Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, God’s dwelling is with the human race. He will dwell with them and they will be his people and God himself will always be with them (as their God). He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death or mourning, wailing or pain, (for) the old order has passed away.” The one who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Then he said, “Write these words down, for they are trustworthy and true.” **

Yes they do, but not in the sense of Jesus being there earthly political leader.

I understand your point, but the prophecies concerning such things become alot more clearer when the OT prophecies of the 2nd coming are taken into consideration also. And without a doubt, Israel is central to the issues at hand. Like the judgement of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25. How does it make sense if a person can hate Jesus’s church, but yet honor Jesus by clothing a person or feeding them? You have to compare what Jesus said there in Matthew 25 with Joel 3. Ultimately, when he comes back, the judgement of the sheep and goats is about how those alive at His coming treated Jesus’ chosen people. With the tribulation 7 years long, there will be those alive that had plenty of opportunites to do good or harm to His church and the 144,000 Israeli sealed servants of God. Those that help His chosen ones get to go into the Kingdom in their physical bodies. Zechariah 14, among other prophecies talk about non-glorified, mortal people living in the Kingdom. The description of the Kingdom in Revelation 20 confirms the fact there will be a literal reign of Jesus here on a restored earth, before He hands the Kingdom over to the Father and then we go into eternity in the new Heavens and Jerusalem.

Again, like I said, when St.Paul makes statements like in 2 Thess 1:6-9, it does not contradict a view like the pre-trib rapture, when the Holy Spirit indwelt Church is taken out of the way, so that the lawless one can be revealed, and the remnant of Israel that always exists, which is specified at that time as the 144,000, will be the sealed and be servants of God for the 7 year tribulation. These are the 7 years left for Israel. These 144,000 no doubt are servants of Jesus Christ for the New Covenant. And the hatred for them and all they serve for God will be severe. Not only will they have the world hating them, they also will have the current leadership of Israel working against them, the ones trying to make Israel a successful nation without their God.

When Jesus appears, in the short 7 seven years from the removal of the church and the introduction of God’s sealed 144,000 of Israel(both chosen people of God, through His only Son Jesus), then will St.Pauls words of 2 Thess 1:6-7 ring true.

(To clarify, as in Matthew 25 on the sheep and goats, helping to feed and cloth all people, not only those who believe in Jesus, is doing the works of God. But unbelievers do the same, not for the honor of God. That is why they are surprised to learn from Jesus they were actually helping Him when they helped His chosen one in their distress.)

 

[Lev23]

Yes they do, but not in the sense of Jesus being there earthly political leader.

This is more than a mere earthly political reign. The King of the universe, Jesus Christ, will rule from Jerusalem. The King of the universe…

 

[ryanoneil]

I understand your point, but the prophecies concerning such things become alot more clearer when the OT prophecies of the 2nd coming are taken into consideration also. And without a doubt, Israel is central to the issues at hand. Like the judgement of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25. How does it make sense if a person can hate Jesus’s church, but yet honor Jesus by clothing a person or feeding them? You have to compare what Jesus said there in Matthew 25 with Joel 3. Ultimately, when he comes back, the judgement of the sheep and goats is about how those alive at His coming treated Jesus’ chosen people. With the tribulation 7 years long, there will be those alive that had plenty of opportunites to do good or harm to His church and the 144,000 Israeli sealed servants of God. Those that help His chosen ones get to go into the Kingdom in their physical bodies. Zechariah 14, among other prophecies talk about non-glorified, mortal people living in the Kingdom. The description of the Kingdom in Revelation 20 confirms the fact there will be a literal reign of Jesus here on a restored earth, before He hands the Kingdom over to the Father and then we go into eternity in the new Heavens and Jerusalem.

Again, like I said, when St.Paul makes statements like in 2 Thess 1:6-9, it does not contradict a view like the pre-trib rapture, when the Holy Spirit indwelt Church is taken out of the way, so that the lawless one can be revealed, and the remnant of Israel that always exists, which is specified at that time as the 144,000, will be the sealed and be servants of God for the 7 year tribulation. These are the 7 years left for Israel. These 144,000 no doubt are servants of Jesus Christ for the New Covenant. And the hatred for them and all they serve for God will be severe. Not only will they have the world hating them, they also will have the current leadership of Israel working against them, the ones trying to make Israel a successful nation without their God.

When Jesus appears, in the short 7 seven years from the removal of the church and the introduction of God’s sealed 144,000 of Israel(both chosen people of God, through His only Son Jesus), then will St.Pauls words of 2 Thess 1:6-7 ring true.

(To clarify, as in Matthew 25 on the sheep and goats, helping to feed and cloth all people, not only those who believe in Jesus, is doing the works of God. But unbelievers do the same, not for the honor of God. That is why they are surprised to learn from Jesus they were actually helping Him when they helped His chosen one in their distress.)

That view is inconsistent with scripture. Christ will appear a second and final time, when he comes in glory to save us all. The rapture and the Second Coming occur together after the tribulation.

**"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Mt 24:29-31)

We ask you, brothers, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling with him, not to be shaken out of your minds suddenly, or to be alarmed either by a “spirit,” or by an oral statement, or by a letter allegedly from us to the effect that the day of the Lord is at hand. Let no one deceive you in any way. For unless the apostasy comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one doomed to perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god and object of worship, so as to seat himself in the temple of God, claiming that he is a god-- do you not recall that while I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. But the one who restrains is to do so only for the present, until he is removed from the scene. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord (Jesus) will kill with the breath of his mouth and render powerless by the manifestation of his coming, (2 Thes 2:1-8)**

 

[ryanoneil]

This is more than a mere earthly political reign. The King of the universe, Jesus Christ, will rule from Jerusalem. The King of the universe…

The King of the universe, Jesus Christ, already does.

No, you have approached Mount Zion and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and countless angels in festal gathering, and the assembly of the firstborn enrolled in heaven, and God the judge of all, and the spirits of the just made perfect, and Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood that speaks more eloquently than that of Abel. (Heb 12:22-24)

 

[zerinus]

… the overwhelming majority of believers never have and never will believe in a literal 1000 year earthly reign of Christ. They believe we are in the 1000 years now …

Is that official Catholic teaching? We (LDS) certainly believe in the literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth; and I doubt that your statement is historically accurate either.

 

[diggerdomer]

Is that official Catholic teaching? We (LDS) certainly believe in the literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth; and I doubt that your statement is historically accurate either.

The Catholic Church neither teaches nor denies that such a thing may occur.

On a purely personal note, as a lifelong Catholic, I’ve never met any Catholic who believes in the 1000 year reign though.

 

[Dan_Parker]

The Catholic Church neither teaches nor denies that such a thing may occur.

On a purely personal note, as a lifelong Catholic, I’ve never met any Catholic who believes in the 1000 year reign though.

Do you mean it is silent on the subject or that it is not dogmatic?

 

[diggerdomer]

Do you mean it is silent on the subject or that it is not dogmatic?

The Church leaves it up to the individual believer whether one wants to interpret that passage literally and/or otherwise. The Church does not teach there is a 1000 year reign, the Church does not teach there is not a 1000 year reign. I guess that’s silence.