150,000 converts this year at Easter

[Peter_J]

The topic invites a lot of criticism. Besides the fact that Catholics “save up” conversions for Easter, as if one day is better than any other to be baptized, the information was in need of clarification.

One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

• Romans 14:5-8

 

[Highwayhound]

To each and every convert whom reads this:

CONGRATULATIONS!

:tiphat:

May God bless you and keep you all the days of your lives.

 

[Peter_J]

Well, I am on a one Catholic crusade around here to get my brethren from lumping you people together all the time. A little help would be appriciated .

If we should not lump in theological discussions, which are the heart of the matter, we should not lump at all.

I agree that lumping all Protestants together isn’t really a great thing to do. Could be worse, though … have you read the recent “Why does virtually every non-Catholic religion …” thread?

P.S. Oh … but let’s not forget all the times when Protestants have said “A Catholic [usually identified by an internet screen-name] said X, so X is the Catholic position.” Maybe lumping Protestants all together would be a good way to get back at them. (Kidding.)

 

[Peter_J]

Well, Protestants are always bragging about their converts or those that “excepted Christ as their Lord and Saviour”. Even the major crusaders like Billy Graham keep track of the number that come forward to “receive Christ”.

I don’t think you’ve got a complete picture of Billy Graham’s ministry. If I remember correctly, if a Catholic attends one of his revival meetings (or whatever they are called) and requests info for follow-up, Graham’s ministry refers him/her to a Catholic parish or ministry in the area.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I wonder if Newt will be Baptized since Baptists don’t practice valid baptism according to Catholicism?

As long as he was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then his baptism is valid according to the Catholic Church.

 

[ConfusedTim]

In the US alone the Catholic church declined from around 64.8 million in 2005 to 64.1 million at the end of 2008. So around 700,000 left over a 3 year period. But this represents only the official number of people who have written to their local bishop announcing their withdrawal from the church. It does not include those that leave the church but never formally announce it which many do not. So really 150,000 is not too significant because it doesn’t replace what was already lost. The real test will be to see if the RCC keeps adding that type of number over the next 3 years. Also one other note is that the Catholic church has a 68% retention rate compared to 80% for Protestants as a whole.

I dont know of one person who has “written” to the Bishop to say they resign. I know lots of people who have left because we lose faith for a while. Some like me dont mean for it to be permanent but simply lose faith for a while.

 

[Peter_J]

In the US alone the Catholic church declined from around 64.8 million in 2005 to 64.1 million at the end of 2008. So around 700,000 left over a 3 year period. But this represents only the official number of people who have written to their local bishop announcing their withdrawal from the church. It does not include those that leave the church but never formally announce it which many do not. So really 150,000 is not too significant because it doesn’t replace what was already lost. The real test will be to see if the RCC keeps adding that type of number over the next 3 years. Also one other note is that the Catholic church has a 68% retention rate compared to 80% for Protestants as a whole.

I dont know of one person who has “written” to the Bishop to say they resign. I know lots of people who have left because we lose faith for a while. Some like me dont mean for it to be permanent but simply lose faith for a while.

My guess would be that the 700,000 who left over a 3 year period is not just “people who have written to their local bishop announcing their withdrawal from the church”, but rather is based on people who no longer describe themselves as Catholic.

BTW, I note that adherents.com/rel_USA.html says that from 1990 to 2001, the number of Catholics increased by 11%, or nearly 5 million. Pretty significant, notwithstanding the recent 700,000 decline.

 

[ckempston]

One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

• Romans 14:5-8

Yeah, that’s great. You just demonstrated tha the Catholic church contradicts Paul when it forces people to observe holy days.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Yeah, that’s great. You just demonstrated tha the Catholic church contradicts Paul when it forces people to observe holy days.

It’s a contradiction only if one is not “convinced in his own mind” that the day is a Holy Day. Which comes back to Apostolic Authority and being subject to it.

 

[ConfusedTim]

Yeah, that’s great. You just demonstrated tha the Catholic church contradicts Paul when it forces people to observe holy days.

CK what’s driving your antagonism towards Catholicism?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Yeah, that’s great. You just demonstrated tha the Catholic church contradicts Paul when it forces people to observe holy days.

There’s not a contradiction. Read more carefully.

Paul said that there is nothing wrong with having special days set aside.

 

[cyberwolf001]

The reason for posting on this forum is because converts start off as non Catholic and one of the things i wanted to see was where are they coming from and why might this be the case.

I call shenanigans. Why not ask in the Catholic Spirituality forum? However I’ve seen many Catholics post all kinds of stats here using the Non-Catholic Religions folder for spam.

It is even more impressive given that it is not merely a matter of signing up.

These converts have participated in months of RCIA classes and reached the conclusion that Catholicism is true.

Catholic converts know what they are doing and why.

Not always, when I went through RCIA I learned of a radically different faith from what the actual Roman Catholic Church teaches.

Why in the world would this topic invite a lot of criticism?

The same reason it would if a member of any other faith posted a thread on 150,000 new members.

I am guessing you are not a catholic. I propose this question to anyone. Who can name,and reference, any other SINGLE denomination ( not protestants or fundamentalists as a whole ) that will experience 150,000 non infant conversions this year in the US?

I pose a counter question. If anyone does boast these numbers would you use the numbers don’t count argument?

Such as when Islam overtook Catholicism as the world’s largest faith. Source

Watch out for that plank. We’re all guilty of bias and Catholics are known to change the definitions of words frequently depending on teh context of the conversation.

This is very true and something I really hate.

well, I guess they don’t have 150,000 new non infant members expected in the US in 2009. Perhaps you mean that the percentage growth is highest. Probably not in absolute numbers but relative to the size of the group itself,
i.e. 10 members grows to 20. voila… a 100% increase

Case in point. This is used against Paganism a lot. Of course no one likes to hear this is steady. I.E. 10 to 20 NEXT YEAR 20 to 40 NEXT YEAR 40 to 80 NEXT YEAR 160, NEXT YEAR 320, NEXT YEAR 640, NEXT 1,280 NEXT 2560 NEXT 5120 NEXT 10240 NEXT 20480. That’s just over the course of a decade of course this aren’t the real numbers the current number of Pagans stands at around 500,000 give or take.

The numbers are a bit hard to pin down as many keep secret for fear of persecution. But by 2012 it’s suppose to become the 3rd largest faith.

Of course as ckempston points out then the definition game will be played to try carve it apart by denomination to make it appear smaller than it is.

 

[Amadeus]

The 150,000 conversions to the Catholic Church in the U.S. this Easter Vigil 2009 are all adult conversions from various and many non-Catholic backgrounds, both baptized and unbaptized.

In addition, there are approximately 1 million infant baptisms this year in the U.S. as in previous years.

Worldwide, there could be millions of converts to the Catholic Church, especially counting those converts in Africa and in Asia. In the Diocese of Saigon (Vietnam, where the Catholic Church continues to be persecuted by the communist regime), it is reported that there are 2,000 converts this Easter.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich entered the Catholic Church last March 29th (Sunday) ahead of the Easter Vigil for reasons known only to him and his pastor.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich entered the Catholic Church last March 29th (Sunday) ahead of the Easter Vigil for reasons known only to him and his pastor.

Probably because he was already a baptized Christian, therefore it was not necessary for him to wait for Easter Vigil. Easter Vigil is primarily intended for those being baptized into the Church, but most parishes think it’s easier to just have everyone go through the same RCIA program and enter the Church then. In my perfect world, baptized believers would have their own, separate RCIA classes.

 

[Amadeus]

Probably because he was already a baptized Christian, therefore it was not necessary for him to wait for Easter Vigil. Easter Vigil is primarily intended for those being baptized into the Church, but most parishes think it’s easier to just have everyone go through the same RCIA program and enter the Church then. In my perfect world, baptized believers would have their own, separate RCIA classes.

It could be but those entering the Church on Easter Vigil include both the baptized and the unbaptized.

In Newt Gingrich case, it could be his “high visibility” that justified his non-communal journey. This was a very special case, if I may say so, as in the case of former UK Prime Minister Tony Blair.

 

[Peter_J]

Yeah, that’s great. You just demonstrated tha the Catholic church contradicts Paul when it forces people to observe holy days.

On the topic of observing holy days, I think there’s clear evidence that the early Christians met together on the first day of each week (Sunday); hence, we must conclude that the freedom to “consider every day alike” which Paul speaks of, can’t be taken to the point of staying homes when one is supposed to be in church.

 

[ckempston]

There’s not a contradiction. Read more carefully.

Paul said that there is nothing wrong with having special days set aside.

He also said there is nothing wrong with NOT observing ANY holy days. Does the Catholic church agree with that? As a Catholic are you obligated to observe certain holy days? Yes or no.

 

[ckempston]

On the topic of observing holy days, I think there’s clear evidence that the early Christians met together on the first day of each week (Sunday); hence, we must conclude that the freedom to “consider every day alike” which Paul speaks of, can’t be taken to the point of staying homes when one is supposed to be in church.

I wouldn’t really disagree with that.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

It could be but those entering the Church on Easter Vigil include both the baptized and the unbaptized.

Yes, they do, but the baptized are really not required to go through the full RCIA program, let alone wait for Easter Vigil, it’s just easier for most parishes to do it that way.

In Newt Gingrich case, it could be his “high visibility” that justified his non-communal journey. This was a very special case, if I may say so, as in the case of former UK Prime Minister Tony Blair.

Could be.

 

[Peter_J]

Yes, they do, but the baptized are really not required to go through the full RCIA program, let alone wait for Easter Vigil, it’s just easier for most parishes to do it that way.

Good point.

We were talking about this on another thread (I don’t recall which thread, it was several months ago) and someone mentioned that a lot of parishes even go so far as to make Orthodox who are “converting” (for lack of a better word) to Catholicism take the RCIA class with everyone else.