16 yo son says he is agnostic

[gerryk]

my 16yo son says he isnt catholic. about a year ago during confirmation classes he decided he isnt catholic. its not that he wants to attend a different church he wants nothing to do withGod at all. Amongst many issues, attending mass has become a weekly struggle for our family. he doesnt want to attend. so far we are making him go with us but it creates alot of tension every weekend. making him go with us only seems to make him more angry. Im not sure whats going on in his mind- but the control factor seems to be a big part. we can make him go to mass but we cant make him believe. the more we make him go to mass and other church related events the madder he gets. Besides praying what we should we do? he refuses to talk to a priest, or anyone else. Help!

 

[InJesusItrust]

Direct him to Catholic miracles that have happened and still happen. That should at least open his heart to the possibility. Only he can turn to God with an open heart and experience the truth.

 

[lax16]

my 16yo son says he isnt catholic. about a year ago during confirmation classes he decided he isnt catholic. its not that he wants to attend a different church he wants nothing to do withGod at all. Amongst many issues, attending mass has become a weekly struggle for our family. he doesnt want to attend. so far we are making him go with us but it creates alot of tension every weekend. making him go with us only seems to make him more angry. Im not sure whats going on in his mind- but the control factor seems to be a big part. we can make him go to mass but we cant make him believe. the more we make him go to mass and other church related events the madder he gets. Besides praying what we should we do? he refuses to talk to a priest, or anyone else. Help!

This sounds like maybe you have a son who is oppositional. I have a couple of those.

I would quickly read up on the topic and learn how to respond/talk to this type of person so that it is not a power struggle.

I have found that I have to use humor with one of my kids and the other one needs to know that there is no money/car keys/going out with friends if he is non-compliant. It can be anything from talking back to not cleaning up his room. I have also learned that I don’t always demand things be done right away. For example, if my son wants to go out with friends in the afternoon on a Saturday, I remind him that he needs to do x,y, and z before he leaves or he will be unable to go. Usually, he puts it off until the last minute and ends up running around like mad to finish up in time, but he does it.

Also, some people just don’t like being told what to do - I get that. I try to make Catholicism interesting (not preachy) by discussing early Church history, the Shroud of Turin, etc.

My prayers are with you - this type of kid can be pretty exhausting - but I do feel that we can have the upper hand most of the time if we know what we are dealing with.

 

[PeterJohn]

This is a big big question within christianity these days. It is a problem in many churches right now in america and across the world. I was one of them. I left the church when I was 18 and stayed away for 9 years. I went from catholic to agnostic to aethieis to agnostic to catholic. I came back when I was newly married and expecting my first child. The reason I did so was because I intended only to give my child the same moral base I had. I then was drawn back into the flock because I was open to God and the Holy Spirit came into my life and touched me deeply. A famous quote is “A mind changed against the will, is of the same opinion still” good luck and God bless.

 

[JRKH]

I am going to question the wisdom at this point of making him attend mass. I realize that you wish to do this for his own good and that - at least civilly - he is considered a minor and thus under your parental control. But I fear that this is doing more harm than good at this point.
I’m sorry to be so blunt here but -
He has already rejected God and, mass attendance or no mass attendance, he is currently not in a state of grace - he is in unrepentant mortal sin. He is the prodigal son who has (spiritually) left his Father’s house.

That said, I believe that you need to approach him more as an “adult” in so far as talking with him about his beliefs, concerns, problems etc. Take the time to listen and ask questions. Be prepared to offer good sound arguments if you know the answers and to seek out the answers if you do not.
You mention that he refuses to talk to a priest. However, you definitely should so that he can help to guide you in your discussions with your son.
Above all, be prepared to be patient, understanding and continue to Love him and pray for him.
Frankly - this sort of “rebellion” is not at all unusual.

May God guide you in this Journey

Peace
James

 

[TBenedicta]

I am going to question the wisdom at this point of making him attend mass. I realize that you wish to do this for his own good and that - at least civilly - he is considered a minor and thus under your parental control. But I fear that this is doing more harm than good at this point.
I’m sorry to be so blunt here but -
He has already rejected God and, mass attendance or no mass attendance, he is currently not in a state of grace - he is in unrepentant mortal sin. He is the prodigal son who has (spiritually) left his Father’s house.

That said, I believe that you need to approach him more as an “adult” in so far as talking with him about his beliefs, concerns, problems etc. Take the time to listen and ask questions. Be prepared to offer good sound arguments if you know the answers and to seek out the answers if you do not.
You mention that he refuses to talk to a priest. However, you definitely should so that he can help to guide you in your discussions with your son.
Above all, be prepared to be patient, understanding and continue to Love him and pray for him.
Frankly - this sort of “rebellion” is not at all unusual.

May God guide you in this Journey

Peace
James

As a former “agnostic” teenager, I respectfully disagree with James’ opinion. My faith journey has been long and winding, but to sum up: I was baptized and raised Catholic until the age of 10, when my family moved to an area without a Catholic Church. My mother, a Catholic convert, reverted to Presbyterianism, then became “born again” as an Evangelical. My youngest two brothers were not baptized Catholic. As time went on, I became much more opposed to attending non-denominational Church with my mother. I was openly hostile towards her beliefs and rejected the idea that I had to attend any church in order to be “saved”. At the time, would have claimed to believe in God but not in “man made religion”. Every week, my mother and I went through the same conversation, the same battle, and the same concessions. She would leave me alone about my personal beliefs as long as I attended weekly Church service with the family. Nothing more, nothing less.

I would approach the situation with your son in much the same way. Do treat him with love, respect, and patience. Do present interesting/informative but NOT evangelical material to him, and do examine your own practice of the faith to ensure you are a good example to him. (Unfortunately, much of my own teenage rebellion was due to my own expectation that Christians/Catholics should be infallible in their practice. Obviously, Catholics and Christians are all human and prone to mistakes, but at the time I was immature and unable to make the distinction between fallibility and hypocrisy. Your son may be feeling or witnessing some of the same hypocrisy I myself did at the time, and using it to fuel his unbelief.) Do clearly set out your expectations of him: “Son, I realize you resent having to attend Church. I am saddened by the fact that you don’t want to attend, and that you are questioning your belief in God. I can’t make you believe, and I respect your right to your beliefs, but while you live under the family roof, all I ask is your presence at Mass each week. Nothing more. Can you do that one small thing for me?”

Don’t expect great miracles, but remember that you are still in the middle of laying his spiritual formation and it’s never too late to plant a small seed of faith that might later bloom.

It took 3 or 4 years of agnosticism for me to make my way back the faith, and I’ve never been happier. I am thankful that my mother (non-Catholic, but still a very faithful woman of Christ) did not give up on me, but gently insisted on my participation in the familial act of attending Church together.

Peace to you!

 

[sanctamaria17]

Insist that Mass is a family activity but let him know that, if he isn’t comfortable participating, all he needs to do is stand when others are standing. Don’t force him to pray or partake in the Sacraments. That will only cause resentment.

I like the idea that he should attend services but the family shouldn’t press him. Sometimes, young people need to figure things out for themselves.

Pray for him, show him your example, and let God take care of the rest.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Have you talked to your son about what happened in his life to cause him to doubt? A lot of teenagers get to this point, and truly, it is time for drawing them closer to Christ but our Church struggles with this. Did he finish and get confirmed? The Church is now trying to move back toward confirmation being given BEFORE First Eucharist, since it is not “graduation” from the sacraments. I think our Church does kind of desert young people, just when they need a vibrant relationship with Christ the most.

But regardless, here you are. Forcing your son to attend Mass is going to cause more and more dissension in your home. Eventually it will mean you have to practically hog-tie or duct-tape him in the pew. Then you have the problem of - he could be in a state of mortal sin and here you are, encouraging him to receive the Body of Christ which compounds his sin.

Is there anyone else in your family that he looks up to, admires, wants to be like, who is a solid Catholic man? Including his father, but not necessarily his father…could be an older cousin, an uncle, a family friend, his grandfather. Someone to come alongside him and help him through this. Someone to treat him with respect, but not to reinforce his negativity about the Church. Talk to the men in your family, if they are Catholic, and practicing becoming holy, and ask them to pray for him, and mentor him through this. He needs the company of men, good, solid, Catholic men.

But you see, he IS Catholic, always and forever. One of the few things I did right when my son was in the midst of his rebellion, when he told me one day, “I think I’m agnostic,” was to laugh light-heartedly and say, “No, you’re Catholic, you can’t help it, you might be a non-practicing Catholic but since you were baptized, you can’t be anything else.”

That is why you should not despair nor panic. It took me 20+ years to get my rear end back into church, but I got there. God led me Home. Your son IS a Catholic, whether he wants to be, or not. Rejoice, for he will forever be marked by the Holy Spirit. There is sometimes a long road for prodigals, and sometimes the road is shorter, but almost all of us finally get enough of the pig pen and run home to our Father!

 

[BobCatholic]

This is what I would say.

“Congratulations, the programming has been successful. Modern secular society hates God and wants to deny his very existence, so they go around trying to program the young kids into losing their faith. Schools. Courts. TV. Radio. Internet. Everywhere you go, the programming is there. I only hope you will have the courage to think independently of society’s programming.”

 

[JRKH]

This is what I would say.

“Congratulations, the programming has been successful. Modern secular society hates God and wants to deny his very existence, so they go around trying to program the young kids into losing their faith. Schools. Courts. TV. Radio. Internet. Everywhere you go, the programming is there. I only hope you will have the courage to think independently of society’s programming.”

Interesting idea Bob,

How would you respond when he says - “Well the Church has one set of “programming” and secular society has another. I have been exposed to both and have made my choice…So you see I HAVE thought independently…”.

Peace
James

 

[Bklynguy]

my 16yo son says he isnt catholic. about a year ago during confirmation classes he decided he isnt catholic. its not that he wants to attend a different church he wants nothing to do withGod at all. Amongst many issues, attending mass has become a weekly struggle for our family. he doesnt want to attend. so far we are making him go with us but it creates alot of tension every weekend. making him go with us only seems to make him more angry. Im not sure whats going on in his mind- but the control factor seems to be a big part. we can make him go to mass but we cant make him believe. the more we make him go to mass and other church related events the madder he gets. Besides praying what we should we do? he refuses to talk to a priest, or anyone else. Help!

Since trying to make him go to Mass with you makes him more angry, what about subtle ways to encourage him? Send him emails with links such as this: therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/english_pdf/Lanciano1.pdf.

 

[FullOfThought]

my 16yo son says he isnt catholic. about a year ago during confirmation classes he decided he isnt catholic. its not that he wants to attend a different church he wants nothing to do withGod at all. Amongst many issues, attending mass has become a weekly struggle for our family. he doesnt want to attend. so far we are making him go with us but it creates alot of tension every weekend. making him go with us only seems to make him more angry. Im not sure whats going on in his mind- but the control factor seems to be a big part. we can make him go to mass but we cant make him believe. the more we make him go to mass and other church related events the madder he gets. Besides praying what we should we do? he refuses to talk to a priest, or anyone else. Help!

I remember this phase. I do genuinely think it’s a part of development. Attempting to be independent, thinking that you know it all… and I absolutely thought I did! My parents just pulled the ‘Our house, Our rules’ card, and so until I went to college we went to church. If I was in your situation I’d pull that card too!!

Now I’m the one encouraging my parents to attend!!

 

[Julian0404]

If this behavior is “new” to you, your son has never been this angry, negative, counter authoritative and to the point of mutiny, ever before - then you need to consider that your son has experienced a life altering event that was in the same negative nature as his “new” behavior, and for his health, you need to pursue the “what” of this experience.

First try some away time with him. You and him, one on one 2–3 days camping, fishing something somewhere - no electronics. Tell him - 100% forgiveness of whatever happened. No judging. No accusations. No assumptions - please tell me what has happened to make you lose trust in me your father? Where have I failed to protect you?

If the answer is not forthcoming then Christian counseling is the next step.

Children change, but overnight no explanation angry is from an “experience” that needs to be pursued.

 

[BettyBoop416]

How would you respond when he says - “Well the Church has one set of “programming” and secular society has another. I have been exposed to both and have made my choice…So you see I HAVE thought independently…”.

You beat me to it. I was about to post this exact question, worded almost exactly the same.

Looking forward to Bob’s reply.

 

[Moore11]

Personally, I would engage him in a discussion about God and the Catholic faith. Make him logically defend his position, and not just once, many times. Ask him about miracles, saints, show him that for 2000 years people have devoted thier lives, artwork, and music to Him and His Church, show him that theology and religion goes way beyond the intellect of any one person let alone a 16 year old testing the waters of freedom. Ask him to defend his position. Realize that he can have his own opinon and you dont want to browbeat him into submission but also you want to show that the logical, true and right thing is our faith. This will also cement faith into him. As for Mass attendance, I think that is a topic that is not up for discussion. You can coddle to his rebellion all you want except in this area. It is one hour a week, he sits though many more boring hours of school and as long as he is your resposibility I dont think letting him or encouraging him to have a mortal sin just because you dont want to seem “forceful” is a good idea. Mass, together as a family once a week no exceptions. That is not debatable but engage him in debate on the matters of faith, you must respect his opinions and thoughts but have confidence that the Truth of the Catholic faith will always trump 16 year old logic!

 

[JRKH]

Personally, I would engage him in a discussion about God and the Catholic faith. Make him logically defend his position, and not just once, many times. Ask him about miracles, saints, show him that for 2000 years people have devoted thier lives, artwork, and music to Him and His Church, show him that theology and religion goes way beyond the intellect of any one person let alone a 16 year old testing the waters of freedom. Ask him to defend his position. Realize that he can have his own opinon and you dont want to browbeat him into submission but also you want to show that the logical, true and right thing is our faith. This will also cement faith into him. As for Mass attendance, I think that is a topic that is not up for discussion. You can coddle to his rebellion all you want except in this area. It is one hour a week, he sits though many more boring hours of school and as long as he is your responsibility I don’t think letting him or encouraging him to have a mortal sin just because you don’t want to seem “forceful” is a good idea. Mass, together as a family once a week no exceptions. That is not debatable but engage him in debate on the matters of faith, you must respect his opinions and thoughts but have confidence that the Truth of the Catholic faith will always trump 16 year old logic!

Lots of good advice above, but I feel I need to address the bolded comment.

How is forcing this young man to attend mass, preventing him from having a mortal sin?
He has declared himself agnostic. He has told his parents that, “he wants nothing to do with God at all”!!!
Can anyone really think that this young man is not already in mortal sin??

Attending mass may have some beneficial effect, but then again it may just harden him further against the faith and against his parents and parental authority.

That said, I agree that having theological and philosophical discussions with him are good ways to encourage his seeking truth. But it may be hard to do this when he holds a resentment because of this weekly battle over mass attendance.
What is MORE important than mass attendance is that he turn his face back to God. Then Mass attendance may follow.

Peace
James

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

Interesting idea Bob,

How would you respond when he says - “Well the Church has one set of “programming” and secular society has another. I have been exposed to both and have made my choice…So you see I HAVE thought independently…”.

Peace
James

I was thinking the exact. same. thing. Thanks.

Luna

 

[Moore11]

Lots of good advice above, but I feel I need to address the bolded comment.

How is forcing this young man to attend mass, preventing him from having a mortal sin?
He has declared himself agnostic. He has told his parents that, “he wants nothing to do with God at all”!!!
Can anyone really think that this young man is not already in mortal sin??

Attending mass may have some beneficial effect, but then again it may just harden him further against the faith and against his parents and parental authority.

That said, I agree that having theological and philosophical discussions with him are good ways to encourage his seeking truth. But it may be hard to do this when he holds a resentment because of this weekly battle over mass attendance.
What is MORE important than mass attendance is that he turn his face back to God. Then Mass attendance may follow.

Peace
James

Ya got him for two more years, then boom, gone. If you give on Sunday obligation as a family you have already lost. He is expected to attend school, and Mass. He may or may not have mortal sin on any given day, but allowing him to commit one with your tacit approval is irresponsible parenting. The Church commands us to attend Mass, should we do any less for our own children?
There is no weekly battle if it isn’t up for discussion. I’m sure this young man would rather play video games Monday through Friday with his friends instead of go to school but somehow with most kids, there they are in school, cracking open a biology book and studying things that are just a complicated and boring as a hour long Mass. I expect a 16 year old to bathe do chores, and act like part of a family which means Going to mass with the Family.
10-1 the dad doesn’t go every Sunday. In cases like this it is common for the teenager to even think that it is an option not to go if there is someone else not going.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

If this behavior is “new” to you, your son has never been this angry, negative, counter authoritative and to the point of mutiny, ever before - then you need to consider that your son has experienced a life altering event that was in the same negative nature as his “new” behavior, and for his health, you need to pursue the “what” of this experience.

First try some away time with him. You and him, one on one 2–3 days camping, fishing something somewhere - no electronics. ** Tell him - 100% forgiveness of whatever happened. No judging. No accusations. No assumptions - please tell me what has happened to make you lose trust in me your father? Where have I failed to protect you?**

If the answer is not forthcoming then Christian counseling is the next step.

Children change, but overnight no explanation angry is from an “experience” that needs to be pursued.

I like this recommendation. If the OP is indeed, the father, then more “Dad time” may just do the trick. The father definitely needs to address this, and not just to force the young man into church.

 

[TBenedicta]

Ya got him for two more years, then boom, gone. If you give on Sunday obligation as a family you have already lost. He is expected to attend school, and Mass. He may or may not have mortal sin on any given day, but allowing him to commit one with your tacit approval is irresponsible parenting. The Church commands us to attend Mass, should we do any less for our own children?
There is no weekly battle if it isn’t up for discussion. I’m sure this young man would rather play video games Monday through Friday with his friends instead of go to school but somehow with most kids, there they are in school, cracking open a biology book and studying things that are just a complicated and boring as a hour long Mass. I expect a 16 year old to bathe do chores, and act like part of a family which means Going to mass with the Family.
10-1 the dad doesn’t go every Sunday. In cases like this it is common for the teenager to even think that it is an option not to go if there is someone else not going.

Ah, this is an interesting point! My father has never attended church of any sort. As I’ve said, my mother had to drag me to church (nondenominational). Perhaps there is a link between the two.