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FJBSJ
Guest
I couldn’t care less about the duggars.
I came here to say that I really like the picture in your signature. (masondoggy)
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I couldn’t care less about the duggars.
I came here to say that I really like the picture in your signature. (masondoggy)
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masondoggy
Guest
Thank you.
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AnnArbor
Guest
It doesn’t come across as just an ‘opinion’ but perhaps I’m mistaken. However, the giving of daughters from his authority to their husbands’ is definitely not a Catholic understanding of marriage.
I would expect to encourage an adult child to get an education and job and move out. The Duggars appear to think marriage is a prerequisite.
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
Just for the record, I have watched the show myself and my concerns about the Duggars is based mostly on what I have seen from the show itself and the blog Michelle Duggar writes on the TLC website.
I believe the harsher critics of the Duggars here is operating from the assumption that as they are followers of Bill Gothard, they MUST have all the problems that other followers of this movement apparently have had. There is also an assumption that the parents signed on to the show out of greed.
Now, I personally think these assumptions border on uncharitable, but I think there is enough evidence from the show itself that the beliefs of the Duggars are NOT congruent with Catholic beliefs. (For example, they apparently think families are obliged to have as many children as they possibly can, the Catholic Church does not teach that.)
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robwar
Guest
For the record back. The Duggars are very much die hard Gothard followers and that fundamentalist movement is very destructive whether you personally think the Duggars are not negatively affected or not and again We don’t see what happens when the cameras are not there. Likewise, and I’ve read from people in the know, the TLC show does supply them with money to support all these people. Now if you think I called them greedy, I didn’t but the show does supply them with money but I think more important to them, it supplies them with notoriety and fame and a platform to showcase how great them think they are. All reality TV shows which are not reality do this to the people that on them.
Lastly and again for the record, I am the only one on this thread that has attended Gothard’s seminars both basic and advance. i do have first hand experience and I can tell you Bill Gothard is someone to stay away from. Only now that Bill has been booted from his ministry at age 80, have the Duggars back away from him.
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
robwar, I’m not going to argue anything you specifically said. I will point out, though, that it doesn’t seem your harsh criticisms have really convinced the people who think the Duggars are just dandy. I’ll also point out that I’ve never read ANYTHING positive about the Duggars from you, ever. I can’t say that about any other poster on this topic. Perhaps that’s why you’re not getting through to the Duggar lovers, and inspiring comments such as " The remarks that are coming forth are head-scratchingly amazing."
You seem to see yourself as some kind of whistle-blower spreading the Truth About the Duggars, but there is such a thing about preaching truth without love.
You seem to see yourself as some kind of whistle-blower spreading the Truth About the Duggars, but there is such a thing about preaching truth without love.
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petitfleur
Guest
I can say I have not said anything kind about the Duggar’s. I don’t think they are evil. But I have strong feelings on this subject as I know people who grew up and left or let’s say escaped this movement. The whole always have a happy face and never show any negative emotion bit kills me. I can go on and on about it but I wont. I don’t feel the need for everyone to believe me, I am glad so many peoe are starting to see what’s going on.
FWIW JimBob is a smart man and yes he does use this show for income. Maybe not solely for income, but he is providing for his family. Imagine why kind of grocery bills they have, electric bills, just from the laundry, cleaning supplies, toiletries, paper products. That’s an enormous amount of money. They live very comfortably. They also do lots of nice things, and believe in being debt free. It’s not a bad gig. Many of these families live in downright poverty. Being poor is not a sin but it is not fun either. I am not talking about being poor and still having smartphones and two cars. I am talking about not enough to eat, clothes have holes in them, no winter coats for the kids poor. So I don’t blame him for jumping on the TLC gravy train.
FWIW JimBob is a smart man and yes he does use this show for income. Maybe not solely for income, but he is providing for his family. Imagine why kind of grocery bills they have, electric bills, just from the laundry, cleaning supplies, toiletries, paper products. That’s an enormous amount of money. They live very comfortably. They also do lots of nice things, and believe in being debt free. It’s not a bad gig. Many of these families live in downright poverty. Being poor is not a sin but it is not fun either. I am not talking about being poor and still having smartphones and two cars. I am talking about not enough to eat, clothes have holes in them, no winter coats for the kids poor. So I don’t blame him for jumping on the TLC gravy train.
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Why don’t we all explore that further? Not being poor is not a sin? If we boil it down to technicality, sure. But what exactly is so noble about being poor, really? Less worldly attachment? Less ‘stuff’? Is volume really the issue here? Is a man really virtuous by trumpeting his lack of financial success, scorning those who have it, and then all the while rejecting every opportunity to ease his burden because every attempt is a deal with Satan?
I would say that while it’s completely impractical (especially for me of all people) to declare something a ‘sin,’ I have to wonder why some people prescribe more Christian virtue to people simply on the grounds that they’re dirt poor. For instance, I’ve seen posts on CAF like to subconsciously contrast developed/richer nations and their lack of religiosity with the poor yet supposedly ‘Catholic’ nations like Mexico and my country.
Reflecting on the Duggars prompts me to see the same parallel. It’s like the entire show is meant to milk money by fueling this concept. The concept being large, highly conservative, and penny-pinching families are supposedly more likely in God’s good books while everyone else is treated like they’re in the same hellbound boat as the characters of Modern Family, F.R.I.E.N.D.S., and The Simpsons.
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robwar
Guest
I do pray for the Duggar children everyday. Others have commented on this thread have shared the same concerns that I raise. I am more impassioned about it because of direct experience with Bill Gothard. Usually the most impassioned people about anything are ex-something. The most impassioned fighters against abortion are those that have been scarred by it and either suffered one or were involved directly in other ways. I wouldn’t be praying for the Duggar children if I didn’t care or love.
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
Thank you for clarifying that. For some reason, even though you have stated that you have been to the Gothard seminars, I assumed you went to them in the same way someone might go to RCIA courses, just to get more information on his beliefs. I didn’t realize that you were actually PART of the movement.
Certainly, I agree that the “most impassioned people about anything are ex-something”. I’ve noticed the same passion from many ex-LDS. It just seems to me that just stating things passionately doesn’t always make for convincing people who don’t have that personal experience.
And certainly, I agree about the corrupting nature of reality TV on its participants in general; the Duggars certainly seem much more well-off in the later episodes than in the first few, where it was obvious that they had to scrabble and save and pinch every penny to get by. Certainly they weren’t jet-setting around the world or flaunting the latest high-tech electronic gadgets they way they are lately.
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Curious. What gadgets would those be?
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
Hey, far from a geek here, posting from a 3 year old computer, so please don’t expect any specific names. I don’t mean the latest Iphone or whatever, I just mean that they certainly have access to the Internet, laptops, texting phones, tablets, etc. (There being a rule about Jim Bob being CC’d on texts means that all the “courting” couples did have phones that could text.) The younger kids even filmed a “re-enactment” of Derek proposing to Jill (though I suppose the TV camera crew might have helped them with that).Curious. What gadgets would those be?
Now of course, many young people use such gadgets but they’re not cheap, and certainly, their clothing styles have changed; still modest, but the older kids are wearing store-bought clothes, but when they were younger they sewed their own clothes; the Jill wedding dress episode seemed more fitting for “Say yes to the dress” TLC show than 19K. Still modest, but a lot more wordly than they used to be.
I also seriously doubt they’re still making homemade soap as I recall them doing on the earlier shows. It seems they sometimes still make “tater tot casserole” but that seemed to be based more on nostalgia than economic necessity.
I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with buying instead of making clothes or having laptops and cell phones. I just wanted to agree with robwar and others that obviously, the money the Duggars get paid for the show, or possibly show-related expenses that the producers are paying for (such as travel expenses for their travel-based episodes), are allowing them to live a much more comfortable lifestyle than they did pre-show. And that this also raises the question of whether the kids are being conditioned to expect to live the same way themselves, without the same financial cushion the parents likely have, is fair.
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kmkarbo
Guest
What kind of people go to a Catholic website and than attempt to denigrate a wholesome family like the Duggars? I have some assumptions of my own, you are mainly envious of their success, of their ability to thrive in our current materialistic ammoral culture. How would you define a successful family? Why do make comments like you do? If you’re truly ‘concerned’ for the rest of us there are certainly other more productive avenues for you to pursue.
Peace be with you.
Peace be with you.
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kmkarbo
Guest
’ . . . conditioned to live the same way . . .’ Wow, so what!? Should they be expected to aspire to live on welfare? A way to overcome envy is to practice charity. The Duggars are exemplary in their charitable efforts. I pray for dependence upon God.
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robwar
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the last thing in the world I would have is any envy of the Duggars. Please go to recoveringgrace.org and read the real stories of real people that have been involved in the quiverfull movement and Bill Gothard ATI programs and seminars. Your points do not make sense at all and most of your 15 posts have been defending this family. People who won’t have a TV in their own home yet allow a reality show that has been running now for 5+years is hypocritical and that is for starters. The bottom line is that reality shows are not reality at all and if you think that it is healthy or wise to raise your children on camera, arrange for your daughters to marry in 4 months never even speaking alone to their spouses, being homeschooled in a program that doesn’t even end in a HS diploma and not even allowed to go to college because college is evil in their world then you want this fake image they are promoting. BTW, I would bet they are not very pro-Catholic either.
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gracepoole
Guest
You don’t really think the Duggars are fans of the Catholic Church, do you? Jessa’s then-boyfriend, now-husband thinks Catholics accept “deadly errors.” I have no idea why you think people who frequent a Catholic web site should do nothing but laud this family.
Several posters have previously explained that while they might find certain aspects of the Duggars to be praiseworthy (e.g., their commitment to family, the primacy of their faith, etc.), it would be naive to deny the worrisome aspects of their lifestyle. I think they’re generally very simple people, which can be refreshing. But this simplicity also leads to some troubling effects, such as their promotion of Gothard’s organizations, a severely curbed focus on education for their children, etc. What’s to gain by ignoring the full scope of reality?
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Marijse
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The Duggars sold out.
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kmkarbo
Guest
As usual, my questions do not get answered.
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LightBound
Guest
Some of your questions were answered in Post 186. It appears you just didn’t like the answer you were given. Instead of spending your time worrying about the Duggars and watching idiotic “reality” television, read the lives of Saints and other good Catholic material. There is plenty out there. If you must watch the television, watch EWTN- it’s authentically Catholic and doesn’t promote some legalistic, Bible-only form of Christianity. Before you make the mistake of saying I was denigrating the Duggars, take note that I didn’t refer to the Duggars as “idiotic”- just reality television. Stating that their interpretation is legalistic and Bible-only is not denigrating, either. It is simply the truth, whether you like it or not.
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
He didn’t mean single as in unmarried he meant one woman/mother.
How do you know she’s not exhausted? If she isn’t, it’s because her older children do a lot of the heavy lifting.
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