$190m Oakland Cathedral Most Expensive Ever

[Caesar]

Church architecture is at an all-time low.

But with any luck an earthquake will take care of the Oakland Cathedral, and Mahony’s masterpiece might get beamed up by the mothership

 

[chicago]

This is truly a building that must be experienced to be appreciated.

This is the report which I have heard from others, also. Once experienced, thier opinion of the LA Cathedral often changes dramatically from the usual online critiques.

 

[I_Believe]

I am of course referring to this irredeemably hideous statue which I believe stands over the main doors of Our Lady of the Angels … and supposedly represents Our Lady herself. I can only imagine what SHE thinks of something so ugly.

http://www.olacathedral.org/gettinghere/images/2.jpg

I want to know what’s up with the crescent moon at her feet ?

Looks more like a pagan goddess than Our Lady.

 

[LilyM]

I want to know what’s up with the crescent moon at her feet ?

Looks more like a pagan goddess than Our Lady.

No no - the moon is perfectly OK. It’s from Revelation Chap 12 - a reference to the woman ‘clothed in the sun with the moon at her feet’

 

[I_Believe]

No no - the moon is perfectly OK. It’s from Revelation Chap 12 - a reference to the woman ‘clothed in the sun with the moon at her feet’

Ok, thanks, I’ll read it.

 

[I_Believe]

No no - the moon is perfectly OK. It’s from Revelation Chap 12 - a reference to the woman ‘clothed in the sun with the moon at her feet’

Ok, but after reading it, i’m not sure it’s Mary. The footnotes (New American Bible) even say it’s the pregnant goddess of an ancient myth. I’ll have to read more.

 

[LilyM]

Ok, but after reading it, i’m not sure it’s Mary. The footnotes (New American Bible) even say it’s the pregnant goddess of an ancient myth. I’ll have to read more.

NO NO NO - ‘The woman adorned with the sun, the moon and the stars … symbolises God’s people in the Old and New Testaments’ - it can’t possibly be referring to any pregant pagan Goddess, who couldn’t possibly be symbolising ‘God’s people’.

Note that this same woman gives birth to the male child who is the enemy of the dragon. We know the dragon is Satan. Again it’s not the offspring of some pagan Goddess who’s going to be the Devil’s enemy, but Christ himself. And the woman who gives birth to Christ? Of course is Mary!

 

[st_lucy]

I’ll be honest…the picture I saw did not look gender-neutral.

But here’s a question…who’s to say that Mary wasn’t bald? It’s not an impossibility. And what DIFFERENCE does it make to our faith if a representation of her is outside the blue veiled, blue eyed, white woman we’ve seen for years. It always makes me chuckle that people who find Mary in salt runoff, french toast, chocolate, etc…always seem to find her appearing in a way that matches paintings of her…when we still don’t know what she looked like.

I am sorry but I am guessing you have never read up on the image of our lady of Guadalupe. If you had it is said that the image of here is probably the only image we have that is an exact likeness. And the last time I looked at it she does have hair. I personally find the depiction of my mother looking like a man a bit insulting. But that is just me, I do tend to get a little defensive when some tries to offender her.

 

[Brendan]

Th scary thing is that the Oakland bishop is supposed to be one of the orthodox ones…

He is.

The architecture of the cathedral was approved under the previous bishop, +Cummins.

Bishop Vigneron has chosen to spend additional funds on a re-architecure.

He has made several positive modifications, such as placing the Tabernacle directly behind the altar, and in a highly visable position. The original plans called for it’s placement in a Eucharistic Chapel.

The Eucharistic Chapel remains, but now views the Tabernacle from behind the altar.

Bishop Vigneron is also a strong proponent in Sacred Music and has invested heavily in the organ as the principle instrament.

 

[mercygate]

But these buildings are ordered ‘towards the altar’…the people are placed in a way that they can see the altar…the bishop is placed with the concelebrants in a way that exudes the collegiality expected between a bishop and his presbyerate…I could go on and on about this…

This church has an immersion font…which is a tremendous sign of baptism for people.

What is so confusing about this building?

I can understand that it doesn’t fit with the personal taste of some…but the original thesis was that it was ‘protestant’…which it clearly is not.

I think we’re on the same page pretty much (remember me? I’m defending the TajMahoney).

 

[mercygate]

Also, I am not a huge fan of spending so much money on huge buildings when there is so much poverty in the world, but I would not be surprised if many said the same when all those previous masterpieces of church architecture were built so long ago.

I believe Judas made a similar remark about some precious oil?

 

[Caesar]

A half-way decent Catholic structure could have been built for less then half the price tag of this, er, building.

There seems to be a contest among some Bishops over who can built the biggest, ugliest, and most expensive structures serve as their Cathedrals.

 

[under_the_dome]

Church architecture is at an all-time low.

Ummm…I would disagree… the all-time low hit around 1976.

 

[under_the_dome]

You can’t really compare modern creations of art to those created hundreds of years ago. We are in completely different periods of art and architecture and you can’t go back.

If we tried to recreate the great art/architecture of the past, it would just be weak and pale imitation – visit the Venetian in Vegas if you don’t believe me.

I agree modern art and architecture (and music) does leave a lot to be desired, but what is the other option? Building an imitation St. Peter’s in Oaktown?

Just curious: What do folks here think of Gaudi’s Cathedral in Barcelona?

Good point about the Venetian – and imagine the budget on that thing!

I’ve never been to Barcelona, so I’ve only seen pictures of Gaudi’s Cathedral there. As I understand it, it’s perpetually “under construction” and is only about 1/2 finished. It looks interesting for its quotation of gothic themes, and the scale certainly looks impressive, but I’ve never seen it up close or in high resolution, so I don’t know. One thing I do especially like about it, however, is the extent to which it is so detail-oriented and uses local craftsmen to create friezes, etc. No concrete slab there.

 

[under_the_dome]

He is.

The architecture of the cathedral was approved under the previous bishop, +Cummins.

Bishop Vigneron has chosen to spend additional funds on a re-architecure.

He has made several positive modifications, such as placing the Tabernacle directly behind the altar, and in a highly visable position. The original plans called for it’s placement in a Eucharistic Chapel.

The Eucharistic Chapel remains, but now views the Tabernacle from behind the altar.

Bishop Vigneron is also a strong proponent in Sacred Music and has invested heavily in the organ as the principle instrament.

I had known about him “walking into” the project, but I had yet to hear about any specific modifications under his stead. That’s good to hear.

 

[under_the_dome]

I believe Judas made a similar remark about some precious oil?

I believe it was some random pharisee named “Simon”. It was in the Gospel reading this past Sunday.

 

[Elzee]

T
IMO, this project is simply a reflection of what is wrong in the United States Catholic Churches, they are reflecting the culture, not leading the culture.

Excellently put. It looks like a spin-off of the Crystal Cathedral. And, I agree that spending $190m on a Cathedral when so many parishes and schools are closing is, at best, poor judgement. I know many a diocese who would be thankful for some assistance in keeping a Catholic school or a 100 year old church open that has to close because it’s in need of repair and they don’t have the funds to do it due to the demographics of its parish.

 

[childofmary1143]

I believe Judas made a similar remark about some precious oil?

Judas was a hypocrite as in the Gospel of John it was said that he was a thief. Judas only complained about it because that money that went for the precious ointment he wanted it for himself.

 

[anamchara]

But these buildings are ordered ‘towards the altar’…the people are placed in a way that they can see the altar…the bishop is placed with the concelebrants in a way that exudes the collegiality expected between a bishop and his presbyerate…I could go on and on about this…

This church has an immersion font…which is a tremendous sign of baptism for people.

What is so confusing about this building?

I can understand that it doesn’t fit with the personal taste of some…but the original thesis was that it was ‘protestant’…which it clearly is not.

frommi, I think you are waisting your breath my friend but take heart, I agree with most of what you have said in this thread. I don’t really get why everyone gets their knickers in a twist over this stuff. I think building huge Catholic Cathedrals modern or not, is inspired. It always does my heart good when I see them. In my neck of the woods I see more Mormon churches going up over Catholic ones Oakland needs something like this and thank God it’s a Catholic Cathedral!

What’s important is the Mass! Stop looking around for fault. Isn’t it the orthodox who are always screaming “the attention should be forward!! At the altar”!! Christ is present in our Church! That should be everyones focus. I plan on visiting once it’s open.

Hopefully this bishop and this Cathedral will lead more souls home, another very important factor!

 

[Wolseley]

Sooo…basically…if artwork is going to depict Mary…it has to do so only under the terms of the artists who put her in an all blue veil with white skin?

No; but at least they could have put up a statue of her that doesn’t make her look like a Raelian priestess:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)