$190m Oakland Cathedral Most Expensive Ever

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I believe Judas made a similar remark about some precious oil?
That’s a pretty harsh and an, in truth, inaccurate reference.

I believe Judas was criticizing for her anointing of Christ *himself *(the night before he was crucified, no less) and he criticized because he actually wanted the money for himself (this is noted after the episode and it was said that he kept the money bag and stole from it.)

Please note the remainder of my quote above which stated that I would not be surprised if construction of this magnitude had always met with some criticisms. The whole quote should be in context.
 
$190 million. That is a lot of food and clothing for the needy. That is a lot of medicine for those who cannot afford prescriptions and would pay for some very necessary surgeries for people without health insurance.
 
$190 million. That is a lot of food and clothing for the needy. That is a lot of medicine for those who cannot afford prescriptions and would pay for some very necessary surgeries for people without health insurance.
Funny, I bet there were plenty of Israelites saying that about all the materials that God himself commanded to be gathered up for the building of the Temple in Jerusalem - all the gold, silver, fine woods, precious spices and so on, you should read up on it some time …
 
The mere fact that they are spending $190 million is disgusting in this day. The Church has so many parishes closing, schools in trouble, poor people who need help, and they are tossing a 1/5+ of a billion on an ugly Protestant-looking facility (it is hard to for me to call it anything but a facility). Plus, there is no way $190mil will be the end number, it will rise as with all projects.

IMO, this project is simply a reflection of what is wrong in the United States Catholic Churches, they are reflecting the culture, not leading the culture.
“The God who made the world and everything in it, who is Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by human hands”

Acts 17:24
 
Think of what kind of beautiful church could have been built for 190million. Instead they put this up. I dont mind the price, but at least it should be spent well.
 
Funny, I bet there were plenty of Israelites saying that about all the materials that God himself commanded to be gathered up for the building of the Temple in Jerusalem - all the gold, silver, fine woods, precious spices and so on, you should read up on it some time …
Hmm, no glass, steel and cement though :hmmm:
 
Hmm, no glass, steel and cement though :hmmm:
Well, tastes change (sadly - I probably would prefer to have worshipped at something resembling the old Temple over some of our more modern monstrosities)
 
Lilym wrote:

“Funny, I bet there were plenty of Israelites saying that about all the materials that God himself commanded to be gathered up for the building of the Temple in Jerusalem - all the gold, silver, fine woods, precious spices and so on, you should read up on it some time …”

So you are saying that God commanded this thing to be built? I will take your word for it–I guess it has my support then… Sadly though I have to say that I am disappointed in God’s taste. Surely something that God commanded to be built carrying a $190 million price tag could be, well, prettier…

Are you sure God wouldn’t rather have this money spent on the poor, the sick, the needy? Maybe missions, schools, after school programs, pregnancy centers or other social causes?
 
Lilym wrote:

“Funny, I bet there were plenty of Israelites saying that about all the materials that God himself commanded to be gathered up for the building of the Temple in Jerusalem - all the gold, silver, fine woods, precious spices and so on, you should read up on it some time …”

So you are saying that God commanded this thing to be built? I will take your word for it–I guess it has my support then… Sadly though I have to say that I am disappointed in God’s taste. Surely something that God commanded to be built carrying a $190 million price tag could be, well, prettier…

Are you sure God wouldn’t rather have this money spent on the poor, the sick, the needy? Maybe missions, schools, after school programs, pregnancy centers or other social causes?
The Catholic Church WAY outstrips any other organisation you would care to name in its spending on all of those causes and much other charitable work besides.

Don’t think it’s impossible to do both. And like I said, God told the Israelites to spend their money on a lavish Temple AS WELL AS look after their neighbours - don’t say it can’t be done.
 
NO NO NO - ‘The woman adorned with the sun, the moon and the stars … symbolises God’s people in the Old and New Testaments’ - it can’t possibly be referring to any pregant pagan Goddess, who couldn’t possibly be symbolising ‘God’s people’.

Note that this same woman gives birth to the male child who is the enemy of the dragon. We know the dragon is Satan. Again it’s not the offspring of some pagan Goddess who’s going to be the Devil’s enemy, but Christ himself. And the woman who gives birth to Christ? Of course is Mary!
Revelation is a book I have not read beginning to end yet. Perhaps it’s time I did. I’ll read the Douay Rheims Confraternity version and the NAB version. 😉
 
LilyM wrote:

"The Catholic Church WAY outstrips any other organisation you would care to name in its spending on all of those causes and much other charitable work besides.

Don’t think it’s impossible to do both. And like I said, God told the Israelites to spend their money on a lavish Temple AS WELL AS look after their neighbours - don’t say it can’t be done."

I agree that it can be done. In fact, money is spent all the time on one project when there are other important projects that could use the money. The real question is normative: “Should $190 million be spent on a building when when there are still hungry, sick and homeless people in the world”. There are plenty of churches (in fact apparently too many, some are being closed) and cathedrals in the world. What should get priority, people or buildings?

Apparently you are arguing that this project is sanctioned by God, therefore the funds should be diverted away from people in need. I have to disagree.
 
So it seems the thoughts in this thread are moving in a couple paths…

One group would say “that’s simply too much money to be spent on a building…any building…we have more important work to do as a church”

Another group seems to say “it’s a lot of money…but if they are going to spend it, at least buy items out of the EWTN catalogue to adorn the church”.

Then some of us say “It seems like quite a nice structure to me”.

Lastly (and my favorite) is the theory that “orthodoxy=bishop who puts tabernacle in full view of the assembly”…which is a new theory to me.
 
“The God who made the world and everything in it, who is Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by human hands”

Acts 17:24
Then you must not believe in the Real Presence?
 
Well, tastes change (sadly - I probably would prefer to have worshipped at something resembling the old Temple over some of our more modern monstrosities)
Oh, I don’t know…I think the new building looks an awful lot like some very old buildings I know of. For example, the cathedral’s floorplan:


bears a striking resemblance to this building…and an awful lot of prayers went up from the Christians who were in this one, too, by the way:

http://www.tassoni.it/ancient-rome/photo/colosseumtop.jpg
 
Matthew: 23: 1-7, 13-33-

1 Then Jesus told the crowds and his disciples: 2 "The scribes and the Pharisees have succeeded Moses as teachers; 3 therefore, do everything and observe everything they tell you. But do not follow their example. 4 Their words are bold but their deeds are few. They bind up heavy loads, hard to carry, to lay on other men’s shoulders, while they themselves will not lift a finger to budge them. 5 All their works are performed to be seen. They widen their phylacteries and wear huge tassels. 6 They are fond of places of honor at banquets and the front seats in synagogues, 7 of marks of respect in public and of being called ‘Rabbi.’ 13 “Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, you frauds! You shut the doors of the kingdom of God in men’s faces, neither entering yourselves nor admitting those who are trying to enter. 14 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, you frauds. You devour the houses of widows, praying long prayers. For this you shall receive a greater judgment. 15 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, you frauds! You travel over sea and land to make a single convert, but once he is converted you make a devil of him twice as wicked as yourselves. 16 It is an evil day for you, blind guides! You declare, ‘If a man swears by the temple it means nothing, but if he swears by the gold of the temple he is obligated. 17 Blind fools! Which is more important, the gold or the temple which makes it sacred? 18 Again you declare, ‘If a man swears by the gift on the altar he is obligated.’ 19 How blind you are! Which is more important, the offering or the altar which makes the offering sacred? 20 The man who swears by the altar is swearing by it and everything on it. 21 The man who swears by the temple is swearing by it and by him who dwells there. 22 The man who swears by heaven is swearing by God’s throne and by him who is seated on that throne. 23 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, you frauds! You pay tithes on mint and herbs and seeds while neglecting the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and good faith. It is these you should have practiced, without neglecting the others. 24 Blind guides! You strain out the gnat and swallow the camel! 25 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, you frauds! You cleanse the outside of cup and dish, and leave the inside filled with loot and lust! 26 Blind Pharisee! First cleanse the inside of the cup so that its outside may be clean. 27 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, you frauds! You are like white-washed tombs, beautiful to look at on the outside but inside full of filth and dead men’s bones. 28 Thus you present to view a holy exterior while hypocrisy and evil fill you within. 29 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, you frauds! You erect tombs for the prophets and decorate the monuments of the saints. 30 You say, ‘Had we lived in our forefathers’ time we would not have joined them in shedding the prophets’ blood.’ 31 Thus you show that you are the sons of the prophets’ murderers. 32 Now it is your turn: fill up the vessel measured out by your forefathers. 33 Vipers’ nest! Brood of serpents! How can you escape condemnation to Gehenna?”
 
LilyM wrote:

"The Catholic Church WAY outstrips any other organisation you would care to name in its spending on all of those causes and much other charitable work besides.

Don’t think it’s impossible to do both. And like I said, God told the Israelites to spend their money on a lavish Temple AS WELL AS look after their neighbours - don’t say it can’t be done."

I agree that it can be done. In fact, money is spent all the time on one project when there are other important projects that could use the money. The real question is normative: “Should $190 million be spent on a building when when there are still hungry, sick and homeless people in the world”. There are plenty of churches (in fact apparently too many, some are being closed) and cathedrals in the world. What should get priority, people or buildings?

Apparently you are arguing that this project is sanctioned by God, therefore the funds should be diverted away from people in need. I have to disagree.
Jesus responded to criticism of the woman who poured the expensive oil on his feet with the words ‘the poor will be with you always’. Clearly Jesus thought on at least that one occasion that he should get priority in spite of the poor that could be helped with the money.

Just as in the time of David and Solomon God thought HIS Temple should get some very serious money spent on it too.

Point being however much we spend on the poor, there will always be more poor that could be helped. We will never eliminate poverty. All of which is no reason not to spend money on glorifying God, which building magnificent churches does. It’s not about the building in itself, it’s about the building showing forth the glory to Him whose temple the building is :getholy: For this reason all our churches should be of the best.

Look, even when under Moses the Israelites were nomads stuck out in the wilderness with few if any luxuries or comforts about them, THEY had a very fancy ‘meeting Tent’ (read the OT to see how IT was constructed) in lieu of a church, and they had the gold Ark of the Covenant which they carried about with them everywhere. They understood that it is important to glorify God in his temples and churches - to make them the best you can give Him.
 
Jesus responded to criticism of the woman who poured the expensive oil on his feet with the words ‘the poor will be with you always’. Clearly Jesus thought on at least that one occasion that he should get priority in spite of the poor that could be helped with the money.
Jesus was actually referring to a story of Moses who looked upon the largesse in the Israelite community and Jesus was basically saying “Even though you have a ton of stuff, you probably won’t use it for the poor…so its hyprocritical of you to mock this woman for doing it on that basis”
 
Jesus was actually referring to a story of Moses who looked upon the largesse in the Israelite community and Jesus was basically saying “Even though you have a ton of stuff, you probably won’t use it for the poor…so its hyprocritical of you to mock this woman for doing it on that basis”
IS that what he was referring to?
 
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