S
SPH1
Guest
What is required is belief in the Holy Catholic Church per the Creeds. Once you accept that, things fall into place.
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M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
What is required is not belief in the “church” rather belief in the Messiah…
Seek the face, not the body!
S
Stephen_C
Guest
What is required is the belief in the Messiah (Jesus) and his Holy Catholic Church. Seek the fullness of truth not just parts.
M
mercygate
Guest
The face and the body are not separated. Belief in the Messiah depends on the Church and upon the Christ-given mission to teach all nations. As he promised, he has been with his teachers for 2000 years and will remain with them until the end of the age.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
May be. Clergy may decide or vote for it and Peter who died some two thousand years ago would get assumed. Right.
Thanks
T
TheApologist
Guest
That is, if Peter’s bones, found under the high altar of the Basilica, are gone. If he was assumed 2000 years later. That’s a little far-fetched. But it could happen. Maybe.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
The fullness of truth is JESUS! the MESSIAH! HE ALONE IS THE WAY TRUTH AND LIFE!
I need the catholic church for salvation as much as I need a piece of bread for salvation. I DON"T!
C
clmowry
Guest
S
Stephen_C
Guest
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Really?
Luke 10:16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.
I can’t agree according to the Word of God.
T
TheApologist
Guest
When you seek His face, yes you can see him. But can you hold his hand? Can He kiss your face? Can you give Him a bear hug? No.
Jesus is head of THE Church, yes? Then his promises through the Bible of
-the Church being one(Jn 10:16, 17:17-23, Eph 4:3-6, Rom 12:5, 15:5, 16:17, 1 Cor 1:10, 12:13, Phil 2:2, Col 3:15),
-the Church being able to forgive sin(Jn 20:23), being able to speak with Christ’s voice(Lk 10:16), being able to legislate and discipline(Mt 18:17-18),
-the Church being led by the Holy Spirit(Jn 14:26, 16:13, 1 Jn 2:27)
-the Church being the pillar and foundation of the truth(1 Tim 3:15)
-the leaders of the Church(apostles) being able to speak with the voice of the Spirit(Acts 15:28),
-the Church having Jesus with them always(Mt 28:19-20)
-the Church having been built on rock(Mt 7:24)
-the Church prevailing over the gates of hell always(Mt 16:18)
-the Church existing(Mt 16:18-19, 18:17-18, 28:18-20, Mk 16:15-16, Lk 10:16,1 Tim 3:15).
AND
-the Church being the Body of Christ(Col 1:18, 1 Cor 6:15, 12:20-27, Eph 5:30, Rom 12:4-5)
must be present in THE Church today. What church even claims all of these things?
G
guanophore
Guest
Well, since they are connected, whereever you start, you will find the other! The church is the normative means through which Jesus’ decided to express himself on earth after His ascension.
One wonders why you are here, MfM?? If you don’t need anything that was left to us from Christ?
G
guanophore
Guest
One wonders why you are here, MfM?? If you don’t need anything that was left to us from Christ?
B
Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
I’ll answer for him. The end of time, when ALL truth will be revealed to everyone. Until then God will continue sheding light into the darker corners of His Revelation as needed.
T
TheApologist
Guest
Yes, Jesus came and brought all public revelation that was needed. The Catholic Church further studies what He left so we can understand it better. And that is the development of doctrine.
J
Jaypeeto4
Guest
What myfavoritemartin doesn’t realize is that the early Christians collected the bones of the well-known people of the Gospel.
Mary was quite a big deal, even in the early Church. She was already known to the early Church fathers as the New Eve.
The Fathers didn’t START the belief that she was the New Eve,
it had been handed DOWN to them from the beginning. They merely recorded what they, and those before them, had been taught from apostolic days. This is the Oral Tradition not written in scripture. Which is only reasonable. Look at the size of the New Testament, it is very, very thin compared to the Old Testament writings. Yet the apostles and those they appointed went from church to church, all over the Empire, delivering thousands and thousands of sermons, expounding on the small amount written in scripture, for many decades.
Now, as I said, there is unanimous consent among the Early Fathers that Mary is the New Eve. Popular gal, that Mary.
Now the early Christians collected the relics of the bodies of their dead saints and martyrs. Yet nobody but nobody ever even bothered to LOOK FOR a relic of Mary or for her body. Reason?
Simple. It was common oral knowledge that Mary’s body was not on this earth. TRUE, the FEAST of the Assumption didn’t start being celebrated until the 400s, but that’s no argument against the Assumption, since the Church only gradually assigns FEASTS to things it has already long-held as a certainty.
And no Pope of Rome started the Feast of the Assumption, either, it began among the Eastern Christians of Greece, Byzantium/Constantinople, Thrace, etc. The West soon adopted the Feast too, because the Western Church also already long-believed that Mary had been glorified and bodily assumed into heaven after her “falling asleep” (dormition). That’s why not even the UNSCRUPULOUS dealers in fake relics ever tried to pawn off a relic of Mary’s body on the public. They knew that nobody would fall for it !!
By the way, the New Testament supports the notion that God gave some holy people early glorious resurrections of their bodies.
Read Matthew 27:51-53.
Anyway, may God bless all here on this thread!
Love,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
Mary was quite a big deal, even in the early Church. She was already known to the early Church fathers as the New Eve.
The Fathers didn’t START the belief that she was the New Eve,
it had been handed DOWN to them from the beginning. They merely recorded what they, and those before them, had been taught from apostolic days. This is the Oral Tradition not written in scripture. Which is only reasonable. Look at the size of the New Testament, it is very, very thin compared to the Old Testament writings. Yet the apostles and those they appointed went from church to church, all over the Empire, delivering thousands and thousands of sermons, expounding on the small amount written in scripture, for many decades.
Now, as I said, there is unanimous consent among the Early Fathers that Mary is the New Eve. Popular gal, that Mary.
Now the early Christians collected the relics of the bodies of their dead saints and martyrs. Yet nobody but nobody ever even bothered to LOOK FOR a relic of Mary or for her body. Reason?
Simple. It was common oral knowledge that Mary’s body was not on this earth. TRUE, the FEAST of the Assumption didn’t start being celebrated until the 400s, but that’s no argument against the Assumption, since the Church only gradually assigns FEASTS to things it has already long-held as a certainty.
And no Pope of Rome started the Feast of the Assumption, either, it began among the Eastern Christians of Greece, Byzantium/Constantinople, Thrace, etc. The West soon adopted the Feast too, because the Western Church also already long-believed that Mary had been glorified and bodily assumed into heaven after her “falling asleep” (dormition). That’s why not even the UNSCRUPULOUS dealers in fake relics ever tried to pawn off a relic of Mary’s body on the public. They knew that nobody would fall for it !!
By the way, the New Testament supports the notion that God gave some holy people early glorious resurrections of their bodies.
Read Matthew 27:51-53.
Anyway, may God bless all here on this thread!
Love,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
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