1Samuel 8: Church hierarchy & culpability

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I had a discussion with a Baptist buddy of mine a couple weeks ago. Knowing her and her husband had recently chosen sterilization, I wanted to keep the discussion on more agreeable, less personal topics, but, nevertheless…

She is aware of the Catholicism enough to know we believe contraception is a sin, but her perspective was that, 1. the Catholic Church is not authoritative (at all, let alone in it’s stance on contraception) and 2. what is good/evil for one person may not be for another. With both of these in mind, she referenced 1Samuel chapter 8 where the Israelites demand a human kingdom. She sees this as showing 1. that God is opposed to an Earthly hierarchy, and 2. While things may be wrong for some people, His plan for others may allow such things. Through prayer she believes she has determined contraception to be one such thing.
  1. A. How should I go about explaining the Church as Jesus’s fulfillment of the Davidic Kingdom, thus making it a Heavenly kingdom? And, why did God seem reluctant in something so integral in His grand design?
  2. How far does God’s mercy extend in regard to culpability for things that we as Catholics know to be intrinsically evil? Or, more to the point, can/how do I compassionately explain why the decision to sterilize was wrong?
  3. (bonus question for English majors) Why do spell checkers say “Jesus’s” is incorrect? I’m pretty sure singular, proper nouns ending is ‘s’ still get “'s” for their possessive form.
  • Kory
 
If God Says ,Two shall be one(man and woman),Go forth and multiply,or thou shall not steal etc.I don’t have to pray for an answer thats already been given.Church Hierarchy=Ep.4:11-16.Truth is not subjective.It dos’nt matter how "I Feel"about a certain matter but rather what does Sacred Scripture,Sacred Tradition and the Church teach.1Sam. 8 has nothing to do with church hierarchy.Peace:)
 
In answer to the problem of granting the people a king, I believe this one of many examples of God’s justice. That is, one on the worst punishments is sometimes to give us what we ask for, knowing full well that it is not what we need.
 
koryp said:
I had a discussion with a Baptist buddy of mine a couple weeks ago. Knowing her and her husband had recently chosen sterilization, I wanted to keep the discussion on more agreeable, less personal topics, but, nevertheless…

She is aware of the Catholicism enough to know we believe contraception is a sin, but her perspective was that, 1. the Catholic Church is not authoritative (at all, let alone in it’s stance on contraception) and 2. what is good/evil for one person may not be for another. With both of these in mind, she referenced 1Samuel chapter 8 where the Israelites demand a human kingdom. She sees this as showing 1. that God is opposed to an Earthly hierarchy, and 2. While things may be wrong for some people, His plan for others may allow such things. Through prayer she believes she has determined contraception to be one such thing.
  1. A. How should I go about explaining the Church as Jesus’s fulfillment of the Davidic Kingdom, thus making it a Heavenly kingdom? And, why did God seem reluctant in something so integral in His grand design?
  2. How far does God’s mercy extend in regard to culpability for things that we as Catholics know to be intrinsically evil? Or, more to the point, can/how do I compassionately explain why the decision to sterilize was wrong?
  3. (bonus question for English majors) Why do spell checkers say “Jesus’s” is incorrect? I’m pretty sure singular, proper nouns ending is ‘s’ still get “'s” for their possessive form.
  • Kory
Click to expand...
  1. Jesus founded a human hierarchy (Mt. 16) that is meant to continue until He returns. The Davidic kingdom has passed away with the New Covenant in Christ’s blood. Any other organizational of hierarchical style is man-made.
  2. Our teaching on mortal sin is that:
A: it must be grave matter,
B: the individual must know it is grave matter, and
C: must then consent using free will.

The knowledge component appears to be missing here, through ignorance.
  1. Properly, it is Jesus’
S apostrophe (s’) is the proper genitive case ending for words that terminate with the letter s.
 
koryp said:
I had a discussion with a Baptist buddy of mine a couple weeks ago. Knowing her and her husband had recently chosen sterilization, I wanted to keep the discussion on more agreeable, less personal topics, but, nevertheless…

She is aware of the Catholicism enough to know we believe contraception is a sin, but her perspective was that, 1. the Catholic Church is not authoritative (at all, let alone in it’s stance on contraception) and 2. what is good/evil for one person may not be for another. With both of these in mind, she referenced 1Samuel chapter 8 where the Israelites demand a human kingdom. She sees this as showing 1. that God is opposed to an Earthly hierarchy, and 2. While things may be wrong for some people, His plan for others may allow such things. Through prayer she believes she has determined contraception to be one such thing.
  1. A. How should I go about explaining the Church as Jesus’s fulfillment of the Davidic Kingdom, thus making it a Heavenly kingdom? And, why did God seem reluctant in something so integral in His grand design?
  2. How far does God’s mercy extend in regard to culpability for things that we as Catholics know to be intrinsically evil? Or, more to the point, can/how do I compassionately explain why the decision to sterilize was wrong?
  3. (bonus question for English majors) Why do spell checkers say “Jesus’s” is incorrect? I’m pretty sure singular, proper nouns ending is ‘s’ still get “'s” for their possessive form.
  • Kory
Click to expand...
  1. Check out:
    salvationhistory.com/Online/Advanced/advcourse2_home.cfm
That’s Scott Hahn’s free course. I haven’t taken it, but it sounds interesting. I may look into it.

There should be a lot online you can find regarding this topic if you’re looking for a quick fix.
  1. scripturecatholic.com/contraception.html
You should be able to find some good articles here on CAF. Contraception and sterilization go hand-in-hand; it’s just that sterilization is the ultimate contraception.

Though she does not accept Church authority, it may be appropriate to relay to her that there is forgiveness, and that the Church does not require a reverse-sterilization.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=231318&highlight=vasectomy
  1. I think either Jesus’ or Jesus’s is acceptable to use.
 
koryp said:
  1. the Catholic Church is not authoritative (at all, let alone in it’s stance on contraception) and
  2. what is good/evil for one person may not be for another.
With both of these in mind, she referenced 1Samuel chapter 8 where the Israelites demand a human kingdom. She sees this as showing
  1. that God is opposed to an Earthly hierarchy, and
  2. While things may be wrong for some people, His plan for others may allow such things. Through prayer she believes she has determined contraception to be one such thing.
  3. A. How should I go about explaining the Church as Jesus’s fulfillment of the Davidic Kingdom, thus making it a Heavenly kingdom? And, why did God seem reluctant in something so integral in His grand design?
  4. How far does God’s mercy extend in regard to culpability for things that we as Catholics know to be intrinsically evil? Or, more to the point, can/how do I compassionately explain why the decision to sterilize was wrong?
  5. (bonus question for English majors) Why do spell checkers say “Jesus’s” is incorrect? I’m pretty sure singular, proper nouns ending is ‘s’ still get “'s” for their possessive form.
Click to expand...
2 has been answered i think satisfactorily, so…
  1. The Pope does have the keys that were given to the prime minister (name and reference escape me), but the Pope is not the King. Jesus is. If she believes that hierarchy is not God’s will, point out that by the time Israel got a king, they had already had the Levitical priesthood for quite some time, and the Aaronic High Priests too.
  2. For words ending in an s, the prescriptive rule is an apostrophe with no extra s on the end. Personally, I think it’s a stupid rule, considering how we still pronounce it, so it’s one of several ways I ignore my spellchecker.
 
koryp said:
  1. (bonus question for English majors) Why do spell checkers say “Jesus’s” is incorrect? I’m pretty sure singular, proper nouns ending is ‘s’ still get “'s” for their possessive form.
Click to expand...
Many style guides (I think my old abridged Chicago manual did) make Jesus’ name the one and only exception to this rule 😃
 
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