2 million Canadians know someone sexually assaulted by priest: Poll

[Marsha_Adams]

What these articles and pseudo-news stories don’t tell you is that 4% of the general population are pedophiles. That 4% crosses all demographic boundries. Which means that 1 out of every twenty-five people abuse or want to abuse pre-pubescent children and they don’t care what gender the child is…

Point 1: The vast majority of abuse cases reported against priests are homosexual NOT pedophilic acts. That doesn’t mean it is “okay” it simply means that from the word go, the media isn’t even bothering to get their facts straight.

Point 2: The number of sexual abusers in the priesthood is significantly lower than that of the general population.

 

[Soutane]

That is impossible! 1% - 5% of Priests have allegedly been involved in sex abuse in the last 50 years, worldwide, there is no way that Poll is true. And anyway, how many people where polled?

81 people where polled. Then where does that statistic come from?!

Zatzat MAY have an agenda.

 

[Soutane]

Why do self-professed militant Athiests come here anyway?I just find it curious.Are they drawn to the flame of Truth irresistably?

 

[curlycool89]

Please explain in greater detail.

I’ve taken a class in statistics and probability, so I know how it works, which is why I now know why they always say 19/20, because it’s a 2 sided 95% confidence interval using a Gaussian distribution.

The problem is in the Gaussian distribution. For opinions and ideas, it works well because you can literally ask anyone and they can have an opinion. With a large enough and unbiased sample size, you can get a good distribution you can apply pretty confidently across the board.

For some kind of “has this happened”, it has to be taken with a grain of salt. Especially when it’s a controversial issue. First, this is not a scientific study. Second, there’s no way you can apply a Gaussian (normal) distribution to something like this (as the ones claiming the data, I see no proof from Ipsos-Reid to say that the data is normally distributed, but I highly doubt it).

Since I have a feeling it’s not normally distributed, they can’t extrapolating the data over the whole population. Them doing so is completely unethical and downright manipulative.

 

[Zatzat]

That is impossible! 1% - 5% of Priests have allegedly been involved in sex abuse in the last 50 years, worldwide, there is no way that Poll is true. And anyway, how many people where polled?

81 people where polled. Then where does that statistic come from?!

Every answer to your question can be found in the article.

1003 Canadians were polled and the poll was conducted by Ipsos Reid…as reputable as you can get.

 

[Zatzat]

Since I have a feeling it’s not normally distributed, they can’t extrapolating the data over the whole population. Them doing so is completely unethical and downright manipulative.

Which would be the complete downfall of their entire business and reputation…

I’m not buying what your selling.

 

[Zatzat]

What these articles and pseudo-news stories don’t tell you is that 4% of the general population are pedophiles. That 4% crosses all demographic boundries. .

Please cite your source. I’m skeptical that 4% of the entire population are pedophiles.

 

[Zatzat]

Why do self-professed militant Athiests come here anyway?I just find it curious.Are they drawn to the flame of Truth irresistably?

What is a militant Atheist?

 

[Soutane]

What is a militant Atheist?

Google it.

 

[Soutane]

Every answer to your question can be found in the article.

1003 Canadians were polled and the poll was conducted by Ipsos Reid…as reputable as you can get.

1003-out of a population of 33,000,000 and not one of them have been affected by the unrelenting media exposure-you continue to amuse.

 

[AfarGirl]

Every answer to your question can be found in the article.

1003 Canadians were polled and the poll was conducted by Ipsos Reid…as reputable as you can get.

Poll: 2 million Canadians know someone abused by priest. Church responds

The Canadian Catholic church responded quickly to Canadian polling company Ipsos Reid issuing a startling news release today. It’s headlined: "At Least 2 Million Adult Canadians (8%) Personally Know Someone Sexually Assaulted by a Roman Catholic Priest.

The Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops responded immediately to the Ipsos Reid poll, conducted on behalf of Canwest News Service, which said “seven per cent of Roman Catholics are aware of a priest in their parish or neighbourhood who was charged with sexual assault.”
In addition, the poll found "the majority (58%) of Canadians and Catholics (54%) believe allegations that “Pope Benedict perpetuated a climate of silence around abuse claims.” Most Canadians do not believe Vatican officials’ claims that European sex abuse allegations are merely “petty gossip” or “propaganda.”
More than 13 million Canadians have some affiliation with Roman Catholicism.
Access the entire Ipsos Reid press release.

Read my Saturday, April 10, column on the issue, headlined “With Europe’s sex-abuse scandal, the Vatican should look to Canada”

Here is the immediate response by the Canadian Catholic church:
STATEMENT BY THE CANADIAN CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS REGARDING THE IPSOS REID POLL
13 April 2010
An Ipsos Reid opinion poll was released today on the issue of sexual abuse and the Roman Catholic Church involving a sample of 1,000 Catholic and non-Catholic Canadians.
The results indicate there is serious concern on the part of Canadians and Catholics about the sexual abuse by members of the clergy. The Catholic Bishops of Canada share that concern. This is precisely why for many years Canadian Bishops have been working to implement and update diocesan protocols across Canada to prevent further cases of sexual abuse.
As in society in general, the Bishops too continue to grow in their understanding of this terrible problem. Canadian Bishops remain totally committed to a zero-tolerance policy and continue to improve their practices and protocols.
The Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops is very encouraged by a downward trend as shown in the survey. The youngest age group surveyed – 18 to 34 years old – was significantly less likely to say they personally knew someone who had been abused by a Catholic priest (4%). This indicates that the efforts by the Bishops of Canada have been largely successful.
The Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops is also encouraged by the fact that 80% of all Catholics understand that only a minor percentage of the clergy are pedophiles.
It is comforting to see that almost half of all Catholics indicate “their satisfaction with the Catholic Church in routing out pedophiles". The Bishops of Canada are firmly resolved, with the help of experts from many fields, to continue to improve their preventive protocols, as they have since 1989 when committee work began on the recommendations later published in 1992 as part of From Pain to Hope.
The Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops regrets that Ipsos-Reid did not question Catholics on their knowledge of what the Catholic Bishops of Canada have done to prevent cases of sexual abuse and to respond to concerns of sexual abuse.
A cursory reading of the results could lead one to conclude that the Catholic Church has a bigger problem with the issue of sexual abuse than any other segment of society. This is incorrect. Experts say that there is no data to support such a claim at all.
In an article written by Pat Wingert and published in Newsweek (8 April 2010), we read: “Most child abusers have one thing in common, and it’s not piety – it’s preexisting relationships with their victims. That includes priests and ministers and rabbis, of course, but also family members, friends, neighbors, teachers, coaches, scout leaders, youth-group volunteers, and doctors. According to federal studies, three quarters of abuse occurs at the hands of family members or others in the victim’s ‘circle of trust.’”

communities.canada.com/VANCOUVERSUN/blogs/thesearch/archive/2010/04/13/poll-2-million-canadians-know-someone-abused-by-priest-church-responds.aspx

 

[AfarGirl]

1003-out of a population of 33,000,000 and not one of them have been affected by the unrelenting media exposure-you continue to amuse.

You are 100 times more likely to be abused in school, than by priest, reports say, so why is is there no poll on how many Canadians know someone who has been abused in school. Because referring back to this poll, there should be 200 million Canadians that know someone who was abused in school

 

[Soutane]

Please cite your source. I’m skeptical that 4% of the entire population are pedophiles.

May I suggest that you read this Mayo clinic study as it may prove to be edifying and spare you further embarrassment on these Fora.I don’t know how to make the link work but you can google it.It is quite lengthy,comprehensive and authoritative.Have at it.

A Profile of Pedophilia: Definition, Characteristics of Offenders, Recidivism, Treatment Outcomes, and Forensic Issues
Ryan C. W. Hall, MD and Richard C. W. Hall, MD, PA

Please google it as I dont know how to provide a link.If anyone here does.,could you do it for me?How about you,Zatza?.

 

[Soutane]

You are 100 times more likely to be abused in school, than by priest, reports say, so why is is there no poll on how many Canadians know someone who has been abused in school. Because referring back to this poll, there should be 200 million Canadians that know someone who was abused in school

Exactly and there are only 33,000,000 of us!Good one!

 

[Soutane]

Poll: 2 million Canadians know someone abused by priest. Church responds

The Canadian Catholic church responded quickly to Canadian polling company Ipsos Reid issuing a startling news release today. It’s headlined: "At Least 2 Million Adult Canadians (8%) Personally Know Someone Sexually Assaulted by a Roman Catholic Priest.

The Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops responded immediately to the Ipsos Reid poll, conducted on behalf of Canwest News Service, which said “seven per cent of Roman Catholics are aware of a priest in their parish or neighbourhood who was charged with sexual assault.”
In addition, the poll found "the majority (58%) of Canadians and Catholics (54%) believe allegations that “Pope Benedict perpetuated a climate of silence around abuse claims.” Most Canadians do not believe Vatican officials’ claims that European sex abuse allegations are merely “petty gossip” or “propaganda.”
More than 13 million Canadians have some affiliation with Roman Catholicism.
Access the entire Ipsos Reid press release.

Read my Saturday, April 10, column on the issue, headlined “With Europe’s sex-abuse scandal, the Vatican should look to Canada”

Here is the immediate response by the Canadian Catholic church:
STATEMENT BY THE CANADIAN CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS REGARDING THE IPSOS REID POLL
13 April 2010
An Ipsos Reid opinion poll was released today on the issue of sexual abuse and the Roman Catholic Church involving a sample of 1,000 Catholic and non-Catholic Canadians.
The results indicate there is serious concern on the part of Canadians and Catholics about the sexual abuse by members of the clergy. The Catholic Bishops of Canada share that concern. This is precisely why for many years Canadian Bishops have been working to implement and update diocesan protocols across Canada to prevent further cases of sexual abuse.
As in society in general, the Bishops too continue to grow in their understanding of this terrible problem. Canadian Bishops remain totally committed to a zero-tolerance policy and continue to improve their practices and protocols.
The Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops is very encouraged by a downward trend as shown in the survey. The youngest age group surveyed – 18 to 34 years old – was significantly less likely to say they personally knew someone who had been abused by a Catholic priest (4%). This indicates that the efforts by the Bishops of Canada have been largely successful.
The Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops is also encouraged by the fact that 80% of all Catholics understand that only a minor percentage of the clergy are pedophiles.
It is comforting to see that almost half of all Catholics indicate “their satisfaction with the Catholic Church in routing out pedophiles". The Bishops of Canada are firmly resolved, with the help of experts from many fields, to continue to improve their preventive protocols, as they have since 1989 when committee work began on the recommendations later published in 1992 as part of From Pain to Hope.
The Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops regrets that Ipsos-Reid did not question Catholics on their knowledge of what the Catholic Bishops of Canada have done to prevent cases of sexual abuse and to respond to concerns of sexual abuse.
A cursory reading of the results could lead one to conclude that the Catholic Church has a bigger problem with the issue of sexual abuse than any other segment of society. This is incorrect. Experts say that there is no data to support such a claim at all.
In an article written by Pat Wingert and published in Newsweek (8 April 2010), we read: “Most child abusers have one thing in common, and it’s not piety – it’s preexisting relationships with their victims. That includes priests and ministers and rabbis, of course, but also family members, friends, neighbors, teachers, coaches, scout leaders, youth-group volunteers, and doctors. According to federal studies, three quarters of abuse occurs at the hands of family members or others in the victim’s ‘circle of trust.’”

communities.canada.com/VANCOUVERSUN/blogs/thesearch/archive/2010/04/13/poll-2-million-canadians-know-someone-abused-by-priest-church-responds.aspx

Hoist by your own petard once again Zatzat

 

[Soutane]

"Bloggers everywhere: 2; Ipsos Reid: 0
Published 26 June, 2009 Other 26 Comments

John Wright has issued a semi-substantive response to the corpus of data presented here on this blog.

Unfortunately for Mr. Wright, as he continued talking he revealed far more than he intended. Now that he has been talking, he seems to have stumbled headfirst into what I believe is a contradiction against himself and I invite my readers to think critically for themselves about whether they share in this analysis.

In one of his initial comments here at Paulitics, John Wright claimed that the source for his polling data was “Elections Canada”. The suggestion was, of course, that his data integrity was superior to mine and that therefore his numbers should also be more valid. At the time that he wrote this, I thought it was a bit strange since I was unaware of Elections Canada publishing or even keeping a database of polls released by private polling firms. I even did a search of the Elections Canada website, and found that in the last 12 months, Elections Canada hasn’t published a single article containing the word “Ipsos”.

However, Mr. Wright gave me enough material to respond to that I just let it be. While I knew that it was unlikely, I also knew that it was certainly not impossible that I could be missing some polls from 2009 and thus I asked him for the first time to provide his source. This week Mr. Wright is now claiming his source as nodice.ca and that his source this whole time has been not just 2009 polls but also some 2008 polls (presumably also from nodice.ca).

(makes Scooby-Doo “Ruh-roh” sound)

This is a big problem for Mr. Wright as nodice.ca contains nowhere even close to an exhaustive list of all polls.

The Paulitics Polling Resource and Wikipedia both documented a total 33 polls between the start of 2009 and when this whole episode blew up (two new polls have since been released, neither of which is by Ipsos Reid). At only 12 polls, Nodice has less than half of all the polls conducted in 2009 and this is the source John Wright has been using (in addition to 2008 polls which I haven’t analysed once yet, but which I would be happy to take a look at.

Mr. Wright then states a complete and demonstrable falsehood. He writes that

In the last of our 4 polls the NDP have been in the lower range (running 14-15 points) with EKOS and Harris Decima roughly the same and the others at the higher end. This is when Paulitics made the calculations. But just previous to that are 4 of our polls with the NDP running between 18-19 points. [emphasis added] (source)

Below is a list of the last four polls Ipsos Reid released in 2008. See for yourself if the last four of Ipsos’s 2008 polls all have the NDP “running between 18-19 points”

If anybody is interested in seeing for themselves, the published sources for these four polls can be found here, here, here and here. Furthermore, the October 9th, 2008 Ipsos Reid poll, even though it shows the NDP at 18 percent is actually still an outlier because it comes directly before a Nanos, Angus and Ekos trifecta of polls which put the NDP at an average of 20%; and it came on the same day as Segma poll which put the NDP at 21%, a Nanos poll which put the NDP at 22%, and an Ekos poll which put the NDP at 19% (source).

Finally, Mr. Wright again attempts to reiterate his claim that taking the unweighted averages of several unevenly-weighted averages is not problemmatic despite multiple, solid, irrefutable proofs to the contrary. Mr. Wright also attempts to argue that his method of calculating averages is “perfectly legit and pretty much what the original author * did with his handful of polls in his charts.” (source)

I am truly sorry John, but this “new math” method calculating averages is neither legitimate nor has it been used by me. Furthermore, since I’ve demonstrated why this technique is not “perfectly legit”, I think this argument is just a particularly sad attempt to attack the messenger when the data and the arguments presented here speak for themselves.

So, to reiterate:

1.Mr. Wright seems to have forgotten his original source for 2009 polls (originally it was elections canada, now he says it’s nodice.ca)
2.Mr. Wright then admits that his numbers are actually based on a database (nodice.ca) that contains less than 50% of the pertinent data
3.(perhaps because of this) Mr. Wright has been unable to provide a single poll which I have missed in my data.
4.Mr. Wright then demonstrates a shocking lack of knowledge about the polls that his own firm released in late 2008.
5.Mr. Wright then proved unable to articulate a single methodological fault in any of my analyses.
6.Mr. Wright then admits that he has supplemented his 2009 data with 2008 polls
7.Mr. Wright then reiterates once again that taking the unweighted averages of several unevently-weighted averages is not problemmatic despite multiple instances in which I have provided mathematical proof to the contrary
I’ll tell you, Mr. Wright is the gift that keeps on giving. Swing and a miss, Mr. Wright, swing and a miss".

Ipsos-Reid is HARDLY impeccable.It’s not even used by the Canadian Government anymore because of its biased methodology.Strike Three Zatzat.*

 

[SunnaB16]

Zatzat MAY have an agenda.

That`s an understatement.
Check out some of his other posts.
Hence my own comment to him early on in this thread. (Post #5)
A Catholic-basher using the Judas priests as an excuse.

The vultures fancy that they can smell Benedicts blood, but theyve got themselves loused up.

 

[Soutane]

That`s an understatement.
Check out some of his other posts.
Hence my own comment to him early on in this thread. (Post #5)
A Catholic-basher using the Judas priests as an excuse.

I think its a "she’ another poster pointed out some distinctly female arguementation or perhaps it’s a male who goes against the “grain”

 

[tweetymom]

Wow, talk about blaming the messenger.

The fact remains, If the Priests hadn’t sexually abused the children, there wouldn’t have been a story for me to post.

It didn’t take much dredging, it was a front page story.

I would have thought you’d reserve your anger for the child molesters and not the news media for reporting on the abuse, or people who post the news stories.

But don’t you know thats the way it works?

 

[SunnaB16]

I think its a "she’ another poster pointed out some distinctly female arguementation or ***perhaps it’s a male who goes against the “grain”:***D

i`ll have to have a look, then.

All the same: as a bloke, id prefer not to insult womanhood by associating that tripe with the fair sex. ***im serious!***

Youve made me wonder...... Cant risk breaking forum rules (again).