T
Trelow
Guest
And yet nobody listens.
John 6:60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?”
- Status
John 6:60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?”
K
kmktexas
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
QUOTE]
- There is at least one daily Mass. Mostly. We have just one priest and he has some duties outside the parish but we have Mass every day but Friday. He has Mass on First Fridays.
- Confession is offered for a set time… Absolutely. The previous pastor did not and it has been hard to get people back in the Confessional line but Father is there at the appointed times every week.
- The tabernacle is inside the main church in a prominent place.
Absolutely, front and center. It was moved there right after Father came to our parish.- The church has kneelers. Period.No, but we are in what was supposed to be a temporary structure with moveabe chairs. Everybody still kneels at the appropriate places.
- The church doesn’t have a sign in the front that describes itself
as a “Catholic Community.” ** no, we are a Church**- As you enter the church, you see people in the pews in prayer or, at least, reverent silence. **yes, you see people in reverent prayer but also the Chatty Cathies. Father regularly comes out and “shushes” them. The kids get regular lectures about maintainining quiet in Church. **
- The Mass is not intentionally altered through the use of
inclusive language. no intentional altering and no inclusive language.- The Mass is said according to the General Instruction of the
Roman Missal and the instructions of the local bishop. Father has one small change he makes with the sign of Peace but is pretty clean.- The gospel is not being read, nor the homily given, by someone
other than a priest or deacon. No one but Father gives the homily- Latin has pride of place in the Mass. That should be reflected in the liturgy itself. **Yes, but only during Lent. **
- The bread for the Eucharist isn’t made with added ingredients
not allowed by the Church. no problems here- The liturgical music focuses on God, not the community. No Garfunkel. Only songs from the hymnal. BUT its an OCP hymanl. 'Nuff said.
- Extraordinary ministers do not outnumber the parishioners.
We only use them when there are too many people for the priest and deacon to handle. No deacon so we do use EMHCs but not to excess- If you’re able to find the mission statement of the parishI haven’t seen a mission statement
- And while you’re thumbing through the bulletin, see if there are
other good groups there, like the Knights of Columbus, Legion of
Mary, St. Vincent de Paul, and Holy Name Society. We have Knights and Squires, Catholic Daughters and Jrs and a great RL group.- The parish offers some form of Eucharistic adoration.Yes!!
- The parish has an active Pro-Life ministry, as well as a
ministry that cares for the poor.Yes to the PL ministry. Many projects for the needy but no one group to do it. KOC, CDA, youth and RL are all involved.- The priest wears his collar. It’s an important witness to the secular world and a sign that he recognizes the great value of his own vocation.** We’re in Houston. Almost all the priest here are in civies most of the time, mine included. **
- The pastor isn’t afraid to preach on the tough issues But a priest should truly believe
the Church’s teaching and defend them without pause.Oh, yeah and he’s got the scars to prove it!!- The parish’s marriage preparation program includes instruction
in Natural Family Planning (NFP). Father insisted on NFP material on the literature table but I don’t know about pre caana.- The church has a vibrant religious education program for both
children and adults based on the Catechism of the Catholic Church. You might also try to find out who’s involved in the program and where they received their own formation.Just kids and RCIA but very conservative in content and teachers.- The church’s Website doesn’t link to dissident groups like Call
to Action, Voice of the Faithful, or Catholics for a Free Choice. no website.- If there’s a literature rack in the church, look at the
publications the parish is carrying. Dissident magazines or
newspapers tend to go hand in hand with a dissident parish. Our literature rack is primarily stocked by the KOC and the RL committee. No problems here.
Not too bad and we are in a pretty liberal diocese.
B
Bobby_Jim
Guest
The implication of this piece is that if the church you go to has any of these problems, you should run, not walk, to another parish. Which reminds me of a discussion I recently had with an uncle of mine, now in his late '60s. He described a situation in the late '50s or early '60s wherein his family had been attending one parish in Detroit, and moved to a new house which was just inside the boundary of a different parish. So he went to the pastor of the new parish, and asked for permission to continue attending his previous church, where they had been members for some time. The pastor says something like “well, if you honestly think that your eternal salvation depends on worshiping at that building with its million-dollar edifice, don’t let me stop you… oh, and you can pick up your envelopes in the parish office on your way out today.” And my uncle and his family began attending that church.
From which I gather that the current trend of church-shopping to find a place that suits your personal preferences would not have been looked upon kindly in previous eras. And I can see a certain amount of wisdom in that. There’s something important about being part of a community - although I know that’s considered a wacky liberal buzzword by some. That said, along with current modern attitudes about jumping from parish to parish, I understand there is now much greater freedom for lay people to get involved in their parish, including serving on liturgical commissions, starting pro-life groups or initiating service to the poor, teaching (or even initiating) CCD or adult catechesis or NFP classes, and pastors these days are much more likely to be receptive to suggestions about the liturgy from lay people. So rather than all of the conservative-minded people concentrating at St. Stanislaus, and all of the progressive-minded people concentrating at St. Bartholomew’s on the other side of town, wouldn’t it be nice if people just went to whichever parish was nearby, and lent their particular talents and gifts to making it a better, holier place?
From which I gather that the current trend of church-shopping to find a place that suits your personal preferences would not have been looked upon kindly in previous eras. And I can see a certain amount of wisdom in that. There’s something important about being part of a community - although I know that’s considered a wacky liberal buzzword by some. That said, along with current modern attitudes about jumping from parish to parish, I understand there is now much greater freedom for lay people to get involved in their parish, including serving on liturgical commissions, starting pro-life groups or initiating service to the poor, teaching (or even initiating) CCD or adult catechesis or NFP classes, and pastors these days are much more likely to be receptive to suggestions about the liturgy from lay people. So rather than all of the conservative-minded people concentrating at St. Stanislaus, and all of the progressive-minded people concentrating at St. Bartholomew’s on the other side of town, wouldn’t it be nice if people just went to whichever parish was nearby, and lent their particular talents and gifts to making it a better, holier place?
N
netmilsmom
Guest
Bobby Jim:
It would be nice if we could walk into any St. Whatever’s and get the same mass. No dancing girls, no discussion of the topic of the week, etc. etc. If you want that at your parish and you want your children learning it, wonderful. However, up until now the traditionalists have been looked down upon. Yes, we could get involved but when we brought up something like the GIRM says 1st communion AFTER 1st Confession, the doors closed. (happened to me!)
With parishes closing or being clustered, why support a parish where one is not comfortable?
First of all, in the late 50’s and early 60’s, I’m sure that no matter where your Uncle’s family went, they heard the same mass. Not so now.
It would be nice if we could walk into any St. Whatever’s and get the same mass. No dancing girls, no discussion of the topic of the week, etc. etc. If you want that at your parish and you want your children learning it, wonderful. However, up until now the traditionalists have been looked down upon. Yes, we could get involved but when we brought up something like the GIRM says 1st communion AFTER 1st Confession, the doors closed. (happened to me!)
With parishes closing or being clustered, why support a parish where one is not comfortable?
J
Jamie_Burns
Guest
Not too bad and we are in a pretty liberal diocese.
Do you really find our archdiocese “pretty liberal”?
Our co-adjutor archbishop DiNardo, in one of his first meetings with the priests said of any parish that did not wish to completely follow the new GIRM and Redemptionis Sacramentum: “Make my day…”
I travel all over the country, and our Archdiocese of Galveston/Houston is much more orthodox than most in my opinion.
Do you really find our archdiocese “pretty liberal”?
Our co-adjutor archbishop DiNardo, in one of his first meetings with the priests said of any parish that did not wish to completely follow the new GIRM and Redemptionis Sacramentum: “Make my day…”
I travel all over the country, and our Archdiocese of Galveston/Houston is much more orthodox than most in my opinion.
K
kmktexas
Guest
Jamie Burns:
Our co-adjutor archbishop DiNardo, in one of his first meetings with the priests said of any parish that did not wish to completely follow the new GIRM and Redemptionis Sacramentum: “Make my day…”
I travel all over the country, and our Archdiocese of Galveston/Houston is much more orthodox than most in my opinion.
Jamie,
In order to not cause thread drift, I am sending you a PM.
Do you really find our archdiocese “pretty liberal”?
Our co-adjutor archbishop DiNardo, in one of his first meetings with the priests said of any parish that did not wish to completely follow the new GIRM and Redemptionis Sacramentum: “Make my day…”
I travel all over the country, and our Archdiocese of Galveston/Houston is much more orthodox than most in my opinion.
Jamie,
In order to not cause thread drift, I am sending you a PM.
N
netmilsmom
Guest
Well bless his heart!!! I love it!
K
katherine2
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
By the late fifties, yes, thanks to the efforts of a lot of progressive Catholics, we no longer had any churches were some people had to hear Mass from the back of the Church and receive communion after others.
M
MonicaC
Guest
Hello, I am just curious on what a progressive or liberal Catholic is? Is it someone who thinks that they know more than those who spend years studying theology? Is it someone who thinks they know better than the Holy Fathers? Is it someone who wants to change 2000 years of traditions to satisfy their own needs? I belong to a church who proudly call themselves Liberal Catholics, I find these people would be a lot happier in a Protestant church. The Protestants broke off because of all of the above, It has been in my experience that when one finds it okay to break on of the traditions then it would be even easier to break the next one ect, ect. It is a snowball effect. The church is suppose to be setup a certain way because that is the way Christ wanted it.
N
netmilsmom
Guest
Geez! Receiving communion after others and being in the back of the church was a problem?!?!
It meant the church was full!!! What a blessing! My daughters and I often have to kneel on the floor in the back of our church. We give it up for the poor souls in purgatory!
K
katherine2
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
It was an immoral outrage. Thankfully, lay action caused some wonderful Catholic leaders like Cardinal O’Boyle and Cardinal Ritter to end this horrid practice.
K
katherine2
Guest
For one, a progressive Catholic doesn’t tolerate some people being told they are to sit in the back of the church and receive communion after others. I would like to think this is better a description of progressive Catholics of the 1940’s and 1950’s, but at times I have some uncertainty that today we are all “progressives” on this issue.
N
netmilsmom
Guest
It’s going on in my church as we speak (7 o’clock mass is always crowded!)
Some of us don’t mind at all standing for the entire mass, kneeling on the floor and being the dead last person to receive the Holy Eucharist. Is it fresher if you are first in line??
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
I’m pretty sure Katherine means not that the church was crowded, but that black Catholics had to sit in the back of the church and rec. Holy Communion last.
M
MonicaC
Guest
Well Katherine being a minority I find that I really hav no problem with recieving communion last. Doesn’t God say that those who are last will be first. I am not sure who you think you are definding but please don’t defend me.
K
katherine2
Guest
You are entitled to your opinion. My husband and I devoted ourself during the 1950’s to the National Catholic Council for Interracial Justice and the de-segregation of Catholic Churches. I don’t back an iota from what we accomplished. It was wrong and we were right to work to put an end to it.Well Katherine being a minority I find that I really hav no problem with recieving communion last. Doesn’t God say that those who are last will be first. I am not sure who you think you are definding but please don’t defend me.
I understand even today, it appears some people do not stand with me on this.
N
netmilsmom
Guest
My apologizes Katherine. I did miss what you were saying. My problem is that I did not see the bigotry of my early childhood years. Obviously, my mother did not raise us that way.
My church was not that way.
The Polacks could actually be seen behind the blacks in the line!
B
Bobby_Jim
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
And whether it’s the 1950’s or 2000’s, and whether your parish has the most beautiful Gregorian chant or has clowns and dancing girls in the aisles, whether you like it or you don’t, every Mass is the same participation in the sacrifice of Christ on Calvary. The liturgy may be done more or less in accord with the norms of the day. But in the end, it’s not about us, or the personality of the priest, or anything else going on around us. It’s about Christ, who is present really and truly in every parish, from the most traditional to the most liberal, as long as there is a validly ordained priest to say mass, with bread and wine to consecrate. I can put up with a lot, as long as we have that. And even if my fellow parishoners won’t keep quiet before Mass starts, and like to hold hands at the Our Father, and have different taste in music than I do, they share in the very same baptism as I do; they are sinners just as I am, and they are members of the same body of Christ as I am. I can’t abandon them for another place where I think the liturgical grass may be a little greener to my way of thinking. Certainly if I did, I would find more people who share in the same baptism, more fellow sinners, and more members of the same body of Christ, which is fine, but why drive halfway across town when the same thing is practically at my doorstep at my own parish?
I don’t want to sound too critical or trite here, but it’s not necessarily about being comfortable. I was pretty uncomfortable with some things at my current parish that I felt were blatantly against the rubrics. But I was made even more uncomfortable by some of the homilies I heard, which opened my eyes to some of the sin and corruption in my own life, which lit a fire under me like nothing else to go to confession and try to live a holy life. This was after moving away from another parish that was much closer to being in line with the 23 criteria posted above, but during which time I was much more spiritually adrift. I’m still not fond of things that are against the rubrics, but I have a new awareness that God is at work in all of these places.
And whether it’s the 1950’s or 2000’s, and whether your parish has the most beautiful Gregorian chant or has clowns and dancing girls in the aisles, whether you like it or you don’t, every Mass is the same participation in the sacrifice of Christ on Calvary. The liturgy may be done more or less in accord with the norms of the day. But in the end, it’s not about us, or the personality of the priest, or anything else going on around us. It’s about Christ, who is present really and truly in every parish, from the most traditional to the most liberal, as long as there is a validly ordained priest to say mass, with bread and wine to consecrate. I can put up with a lot, as long as we have that. And even if my fellow parishoners won’t keep quiet before Mass starts, and like to hold hands at the Our Father, and have different taste in music than I do, they share in the very same baptism as I do; they are sinners just as I am, and they are members of the same body of Christ as I am. I can’t abandon them for another place where I think the liturgical grass may be a little greener to my way of thinking. Certainly if I did, I would find more people who share in the same baptism, more fellow sinners, and more members of the same body of Christ, which is fine, but why drive halfway across town when the same thing is practically at my doorstep at my own parish?
N
netmilsmom
Guest
WHERE???
Are you saying that some people on this board or in your local church want to put blacks in the back or in their own section? REALLY?
N
netmilsmom
Guest
Bobby Jim:
To me it has to do with the Cathechism of my children.
- Status