23 Year Marriage In Jeopardy

[a_cermak]

ynotzap

Saying that, I thought that she wouldn’t ever consider doing what she is now doing because she had personally gone through the pain of her own family breakups and knew the emotional costs involved.

Obviously I was wrong in my assumption.

But here’s the thing. She stuck it out until the children were grown. It’s well understood, and your wife probably understood, too, that children do best when raised by two parents. So she stuck it out through their rearing. That’s not nothing.

 

[Axios]

To All

Thank you for all of your prayers, kind words and encouragement.

It’s very difficult posting to a forum about a situation like this without sounding one sided. I assure everyone that I’m being as truthful as I can be regarding this breakup. My search for answers may prove fruitless, but just posting and getting your replies has been very therapeutic.

Today is going to be a rough one. It’s Valentines Day. It’s also my birthday. It’s been almost impossible to escape the endless TV commercials and radio ads for this "day of romance. Wonder if the wife will call or text to even acknowledge my birthday. I somehow doubt it. I myself haven’t heard a word from her since move out day.

God Bless You All!

 

[Irishmom2]

Axios,

May God bless you on your birthday, and give you the gifts of His love, peace and consolation. This will be a difficult day for you, that’s for certain. But invite a close friend or a relative over, have take out or delivery pizza with you kids and just don’t buy into all the hype. I wish you nothing but the best and will keep you in my prayers.

May God bless you and guide you.

 

[kbachler]

The 5 Love Languages describes many situations that are HIGHLY similar to what is described here. The issue according to that author can be that NEITHER PERSON might significantly change. They simply stop understanding each other.

The author argues for 5 main ways of expressing love (with dialects to each):

Receiving Gifts
Physical Touch
Words of Affirmation
Acts of Service
Quality Time

The classic case (an example) is of the man who works harder and harder to provide for his wife and family. He buys presents. He does things for his family. One day the wife says she doesn’t love him anymore. He complains that she never expresses appreciation for his hard work - or perhaps she never touches him anymore. She complains that he is never around.

When they dated, they made a point of including time and effort in each others PRIMARY love language. His may have been Acts of Service, hers may have been Quality Time.

Time passes: He keeps trying to express himself to her in his Acts of Service - but she doesn’t speak that - and her emotional tank is drained. She keeps trying to express that they need Quality time together - He doesn’t speak that - so he hears “you’re never home.”

Eventually their emotional tanks are drained. She says she doesn’t feel loved no matter how much he says it - because she doesn’t get quality time. He says he doesn’t feel loved because they never have sex - which of course makes her feel “used” without that same quality time.

The above is just an example. But its a typical one.

Then people look elsewhere to recharge their emotional tank, to find what they had earlier in the relationship when they were “in love”.

I really would suggest asking the wife to slow down, please read this book, and consider giving the couple a set period of time to work on things before taking any action. Find a counselor that specializes in this approach.

It’s not a panacea. But I’ve seen it work, and it helped me and my wife.

The complaints above - “He complains that she never expresses appreciation for his hard work - or perhaps she never touches him anymore. She complains that he is never around.” should be taken as information only. When she complains “he is never around” she is saying “My language is quality time.” When he says she never expresses appreciation, he is saying “My language is words of affirmation.” Learn to speak the other person’s language, and focus solely on what you can control - speaking to your spouse in a way they can hear.

 

[kbachler]

The author of 5 Love Languages has often used this approach:

Go to your spouse. Apologize for not being as good of a spouse as you could have been. Ask your spouse to tell you what you can do to be a better spouse. Listen for their love language. Act upon the information in their language.

It’s not easy learning to speak another language. But I have seen this work. But she needs to give you time, and needs to give you interaction.

 

[Axios]

Axios,

May God bless you on your birthday, and give you the gifts of His love, peace and consolation. This will be a difficult day for you, that’s for certain. But invite a close friend or a relative over, have take out or delivery pizza with you kids and just don’t buy into all the hype. I wish you nothing but the best and will keep you in my prayers.

May God bless you and guide you.

I swear Irishmom2 that you have a direct line to the Almighty Himself…

I was getting ready to settle down to an evening by myself watching Duck Dynasty reruns when the door bell rang. It was my cousin and his wife packing about 6 pizzas, a birthday cake and a bunch of Budweiser! About 10 minutes later my boys showed up as well.

It was probably the best birthday get together that I have had in a long time. You gotta love family! I was able to manage some happiness for a few hours anyway.

 

[Irishmom2]

The author of 5 Love Languages has often used this approach:

Go to your spouse. Apologize for not being as good of a spouse as you could have been. Ask your spouse to tell you what you can do to be a better spouse. Listen for their love language. Act upon the information in their language.

It’s not easy learning to speak another language. But I have seen this work. But she needs to give you time, and needs to give you interaction.

I think it is presumptuous of anyone to assume they know that the OP has anything he needs to apologize to his wife for. We can only go by what he has told us, and he is the wronged party here.

 

[Irishmom2]

I swear Irishmom2 that you have a direct line to the Almighty Himself…

I was getting ready to settle down to an evening by myself watching Duck Dynasty reruns when the door bell rang. It was my cousin and his wife packing about 6 pizzas, a birthday cake and a bunch of Budweiser! About 10 minutes later my boys showed up as well.

It was probably the best birthday get together that I have had in a long time. You gotta love family! I was able to manage some happiness for a few hours anyway.

I am happy to hear that! I think you cousin and his wife are people that you can count on for support. Glad that you were able to find some fun on your special day.

 

[Axios]

The author of 5 Love Languages has often used this approach:

Go to your spouse. Apologize for not being as good of a spouse as you could have been. Ask your spouse to tell you what you can do to be a better spouse. Listen for their love language. Act upon the information in their language.

It’s not easy learning to speak another language. But I have seen this work. But she needs to give you time, and needs to give you interaction.

…and then it all came crashing down on Sunday the 16th.

My wife texted me in the evening to inform me of her new address so that I could forward whatever mail that comes to the house to her.

This was the first I heard from her since she moved out two weeks ago. The text subjects were like “How are you doing?”, “Have you taken the dog to the groomer?”. I replied kindly but not in a way she could construe as needy or clingy…just answered the questions that were asked. It was good talking to her even though it was just texts.

“And by the way I’ve retained a lawyer. I would advise you to do the same.”

This was the last message in what was a light conversation. I couldn’t and didn’t know how to reply.

Somehow I think she doesn’t want to be discussing Love Languages right now.

 

[kbachler]

Sorry to hear that.

Given her actions, are you certain there is no one else involved? (This action so soon after Valentine’s Day makes it seem like she’s made up her mind to clear her plate to move on for someone else.)

Don’t talk about the book or languages. Talk about what she means to you and what you are willing to do to be a better spouse. Take what she says as information.

Ask for time. Ask to continue the commitment to each other for a set period.

Here is a quote that is an example from the book - that ended up working:

“Now, let me suggest a plan to test our hypothesis. What if you go home and say to Glenn, ‘I’ve been thinking about us and I’ve decided that I would like to be a better wife to you. So if you have any suggestions as to how I could be a better wife, I want you to know that I am open to them. You can tell me now or you can think about it and let me know what you think, but I would really like to work on being a better wife.’ Whatever his response, negative or positive, simply accept it as information. That initial statement lets him know that something different is about to happen in your relationship.
“Then based on your guess that his primary love language is ‘Physical Touch’ and my suggestion that his secondary love language may be ‘Words of Affirmation,’ focus your attention on those two areas for one month.
“If Glenn comes back with a suggestion as to how you might be a better wife, accept that information and work it into your plan. Look for positive things in Glenn’s life and give him verbal affirmation about those things. In the meantime, stop all verbal complaints. If you want to complain about something, write it down in your personal notebook rather than saying anything about it to Glenn this month.

As Glenn’s emotional tank got filled, he responded. But the ownership on action was completely one sided at the beginning.

You have to decide if you want to work at this or not. All you are asking for is time and a temporary commitment - full commitment to work with you - with no 3rd parties involved.

Do not complain. Do not accuse. Talk about you wanting to work on what you can do to save this marriage, this relationship with her, that is very important to you. But to do that, you need the opportunity.

If she is hesitant, remind her - again without lecturing - that if the two of you need to move on, if there is really no hope to be together - then wouldn’t she feel better about and her choices if every reasonable opportunity was made to repair the relationship and to live up to the past commitments you both have made. Just ask her to think about it. Don’t pressure her.

Are there any mutually friendly parties that can tell you if there is someone else without them feeling like they are getting involved?

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

A few points:
Five Languages of Love is a great book … for couples who want to work on their relationships. Have to learn how to come across in ways the spouse can get that one loves and cares for them. For relationships on the rocks where one side isn’t interested in reconciliation: while the book is a valuable resource, it is very insufficient.

In this case, Axios’ wife has clearly checked out and no amount of supplication is going to bring her back. I was accused earlier in the thread of blaming this all on Axios … what I should have added to make myself clearer is that Axios’ wife sinned a mortal sin, that is clearly on her and she will have to answer to God for what she did. That said, it is also my experience that these things do not happen in a vacuum. Somewhere along the line, Axios went from the guy she married to the guy she lost attraction to. Some of that is definitely on her, she needed to remember her vows even when she got “bored” … and some of that may be on him. Which is why I asked him to assess the differences between courtship and early marriage to more recent times for clues.

We often make the mistake of thinking that marriage vows are static, that they are sufficient by themselves to hold the marriage together, that once said, we never have to assume their place again. Rather, marriage vows are a living document that runs through the entire course of the marriage as the rock toward which both parties must strive. The desire to strive toward that rock must often be rekindled time and time again…

Remember we are all sinners, vulnerable to temptation. It’s right there in Our Father. There are things that spouses do, both men and women have done them, that leave their spouses on an island, vulnerable to temptation. For instance, I know a fellow whose wife had an affair, the mortal sin is on her, no doubt about that, she had to go to Confession for it. But through things that happened to him and left him in a bad place mentally, he lost his place as her leader and failed to meet her needs. Hence she was left vulnerable to a sexual predator who took advantage of her weakened state of resistance. They have since reconciled and he understands what happened, that he has to maintain his place as the head of the household. And they understand that they have to work together and hold each other up. It’s a team effort… The Five Languages book really helped them a lot, but as I said, it requires the desire of both sides to make it work.

As always, my prayers for Axios’ children and the children of all divorces for they are the ones who suffer the most. My heart goes out to them.

 

[jimmy]

Have you considered that maybe you are too nice or boring to her? You indicated that she was annoyed or angry that you never get angry or that you avoid arguments. And you mentioned that she got on you about being content with where you are in life.

Have you ever read the book Wild at Heart? It seems that the book would pertain to your situation. The idea behind the book is that men need to find their passion that will bring them alive. Christians often fall into the trap of becoming nice (not necessarily good) and end up frustrating themselves causing themselves problems. In our civilized society we have lost the wild part of our nature (or suppressed it) and have become tame. By freeing ourselves - and allowing ourselves to be wild at heart - we become who we are supposed to be. It isn’t a Catholic book but it is Christian and it might be helpful.

With the above in mind, the very worst thing you could do would be to crawl back to her asking her ‘what did I do wrong? How can I fix it? How can I change?’ Above all else you don’t want to come off as desperate. She is the one who left, not you, so for you to go crawling back probably wouldn’t turn out well. Leave the line open but never act desperate.

 

[Axios]

Have you considered that maybe you are too nice or boring to her? You indicated that she was annoyed or angry that you never get angry or that you avoid arguments. And you mentioned that she got on you about being content with where you are in life.

Have you ever read the book Wild at Heart? It seems that the book would pertain to your situation. The idea behind the book is that men need to find their passion that will bring them alive. Christians often fall into the trap of becoming nice (not necessarily good) and end up frustrating themselves causing themselves problems. In our civilized society we have lost the wild part of our nature (or suppressed it) and have become tame. By freeing ourselves - and allowing ourselves to be wild at heart - we become who we are supposed to be. It isn’t a Catholic book but it is Christian and it might be helpful.

jimmy,

I’ve been “wild at heart” for a long time. If I’ve given you the impression that I’m a tea-totalling, accounting is a riot, alter boy type of person I’d like to clear that up right now. The position that I wear a suit to right now was gained because I swung a hammer and wrenches in the oil patch mud. I got down and dirty with the rest of the “rig pigs” when I was younger and earned my way to where I’m at right now. I was always a leader of my crew.

I hunt big game and fish. I skin, clean and eat whatever I kill. Ted Nugent would be proud of me.

I compete in organized tactical rifle and pistol matches. I reload my own ammo.

I put on approximately 5000 miles per year on my Harley Davidson. I’ve tipped a beer or three in a local watering hole with Hell’s Angel’s who just happened to see me ride up on my bike. No, I don’t condone their 1%er lifestyle and would never be involved with it. But there was mutual respect because of the bikes.

Not exactly stamp collecting.

I hear what you’re saying about being too nice and being boring. Too nice? If loving your wife and always treating her with respect is too nice then I’m guilty. She has not gotten away with everything through the course of our marriage and I’ll try to expand on that in posts to come.

As far as begging and pleading for her to return at this point? Hasn’t and isn’t going to happen on my watch. I’m proud to say that since the beginning of this present mess and move out I’ve stayed “dark” as far as any kind of communications. No contact unless she got a hold of me first, the first of which happened this last Sunday evening. And all I did was answer questions like “Have you taken the dog to the groomer?” or “How are the boys since I left?”. I wasn’t cold but business like. No groveling or sniveling. And I don’t intend on contacting her first any time soon.

If she wants to talk reconciliation my ears are open and receptive. Until that time, marriage issues are always a 50 / 50 split and I’ll own whatever part I had in this.

But her leaving this family is 100% on her head. And there’s consequences in that. I just hope she has enough of a conscience left to realize that.

 

[Axios]

Since coming to this forum I have been directed by some very fine people to other threads where there are marriage tragedies experienced by other poor souls, be they male or female. I have gone through these tragic stories page by page and the common denominator is pain.

What has happened to all of us as a society?

People leave marriages, by and large, as has been well documented here, because they are “unhappy”. The honeymoon period is over, the tedium of domesticity has set in, the “spark” has gone, however you want to put it. And I’m talking about marriages where there is no domestic violence or physical abuse involved which is a different story altogether.

The reason people leave, I feel, is that there has been a dramatic cultural shift in our understanding of what marriage is and what it is for. Until recently, marriage was recognized as the best possible model of primarily providing a stable environment in which to raise children as well as channeling male and female energies in a way that is optimal to them, their family and society as a whole.

It was NOT just about “love” and it was NOT about meeting the arbitrary, ever changing emotional and intimacy needs of adults. Your spouse was not supposed to be your “soul mate” to understand you on some deep existential level, whilst simultaneously setting your loins on fire every time they so much as walked past you. Marriage was a practical arrangement based on the hard facts of reality, not a romantic fantasy based on Hollywood generated soft focus “love”.

Now, people believe marriage is about - and only about - making them happy and fulfilled, specifically romantically. If their spouse isn’t whipping them into a lustful frenzy on a daily basis as well as being a constant source of stimulating and entertaining company who understands them mind, body and soul, then, GAME OVER.

Nevermind if they’ve got kids who’s prospects will be damaged or destroyed forever by enduring the destruction of their family. Because what matters most is that they, the wayward spouse, is HAPPY.

That’s where we get sparkling gems like “my children would rather be with a happy single parent than an unhappy couple!” when, surprising as it is to the egocentric narcissist that is the modern walk away parent, their mother’s or father’s happiness is not children’s first priority. Parental happiness is something most kids give virtually no thought to at all in most cases. Children just want to be with both parents.

And secondly, there is no evidence, that I have experienced personally through friends or read about that separation & divorce makes people any happier. People usually stay exactly the same, then pick a new partner exactly like the last one, and then get divorced again. That’s why second marriage failure rates are so high.

But none of this information is any longer in the public conciousness. It used to be taken as self evident that divorce was a shameful tragedy that destroyed lives. But now that has been replaced with the fraudulent narrative that nothing matters or has any harmful effects other than not being “HAPPY”.

The narsissism of todays modern culture has encouraged people to put far too much emphasis on their own “HAPPINESS” as well as believing in false ways that they can achieve this.

How can we put an end to this madness? Reducing divorce depends on ensuring people once again understand what marriage is for, what it represents and why it’s important. It’s why forums like this one exist. It’s listening to what Father is preaching about at Sunday mass.

It depends on understanding that you are not “an individual” entitled to chase each and every one of your desires at any cost. You are part of a society and you have a responsibility to maintaining the health of that society which is undermined at every turn by getting separated and divorced. Especially when you have children.

May God help us all.

Rant over. It’s late and I’m really tired.

 

[kbachler]

As far as begging and pleading for her to return at this point? Hasn’t and isn’t going to happen on my watch. I’m proud to say that since the beginning of this present mess and move out I’ve stayed “dark” as far as any kind of communications. No contact unless she got a hold of me first, the first of which happened this last Sunday evening. And all I did was answer questions like “Have you taken the dog to the groomer?” or “How are the boys since I left?”. I wasn’t cold but business like. No groveling or sniveling. And I don’t intend on contacting her first any time soon.

If she wants to talk reconciliation my ears are open and receptive. Until that time, marriage issues are always a 50 / 50 split and I’ll own whatever part I had in this.

But her leaving this family is 100% on her head. And there’s consequences in that. I just hope she has enough of a conscience left to realize that.

Why are you proud to say that you’ve stayed dark in terms of communications? That sounds cowardly or self-centered to me, not something to be proud of. No one is suggesting that you should beg or grovel, but making it clear that what you want to fight for your marriage is neither of those.

She may well have left hoping that you’d wake up, come to your senses, and TALK to her about improving things. Once she didn’t hear from you on Valentine’s Day weekend, she may have checked out the rest of the way - or just upped the ante. In essence, from her perspective, you’ve proven through your actions that you don’t want to fight for the marriage.

Based on the above, it really doesn’t sound to me like you’re taking ownership of your part in this. (Bet you haven’t read any of the book we’ve suggested, or made any serious attempt at initiating communication suggested in the book.) You could have taken actions to improve things. Instead you’ve taken action to justify your position in your mind and to try to prove her wrong. It sounds to me like you’d rather be right than happy, and you’re going to prove that all the way through the divorce.

In a marriage, both people are part of the same entity. BOTH people have a responsibility to fix problems no matter who or what is the cause.

If your arm moved and hit a rusty nail, would you say to your arm “Getting infected is 100% your responsibility, its up to you to fix it.”? Or would your entire body work together to fight the infection that could kill your entire body?

 

[kbachler]

You’re approach strikes me as: “There are consequences to my arm for it getting infected. If it doesn’t heal itself, I’ll just have to cut it off. I’ll be without an arm, but I’ll prove my point.”

Is it about being right, or is it about having a healthy marriage? Your approach tells me that you’re at least as much at fault in this – you put your body somewhere where your arm could hit that nail – and now you aren’t accepting your part by trying to heal things - at the same time blaming her. Not something to be proud of at all.

 

[Irishmom2]

Why would axios want or need to chase down his wife and communicate with her when she is the one that left? She is the one that walked out of his life and the life of their sons. It is totally on her to communicate with him. Do you honestly think that something he is going to say is going to make her come back? No, only she will decide if she wants to come back. The burden is on her to try and fix what she did.

I cannot understand why some people feel it is necessary to come to this thread and lay blame on someone that has already been disappointed by their spouse. The OP came here for support. Yes, I understand that there may have been mistakes by the OP, but that doesn’t change the fact that SHE left.

No one should need to beg or plead with their spouse to return to them. Like love, it is a decision they would make. Axios’ wife has decided to leave and not to love.

 

[Groo]

For whatever it’s worth, I think you are handling the situation well. Chasing her down and offering vague apologies or begging would be useless at best and counterproductive at worst.

I don’t think there is anything more to do than what you are doing. Just a sad situation and, unfortunately, not uncommon.

 

[ynotzap]

Dear Axios: My marriage was headed for the rocks. I am very dedicated to my God. If I failed in my marriage, I felt I failed God, my wife and family and myself. I tried my very best to do all the right things and I felt confident that I did. I tried to put God first, and my family second. When we married it was My wife, me and God, the three of us. I found myself to be in a seemingly impossible situation. I had no clue to what was happening. I tried every thing , counseling, advise, and much prayer. We all suffered, especially my wife. I even had a breakdown, one of many. A priest I knew was kind of a “No” priest known for his refusal of requests. He made a comment to me one day after sharing a little of our faith. He said “You are self-righteous!” I could see that he was applying it to what I was saying, and I could also see where he was wrong. I’m always trying to discern the truth. I kept that statement in the back of my mind for more understanding. I found that even if a priest has many faults, he still has the Charism of guiding souls, which goes with his vocation, we all have our special charisms As a matter of fact I could see his self-righteousness. When I had my spiritual healing (ref:to post 35 on Catholic witnessing to evangelize in evangelizing forum, there are four episodes listed) I realized he was right and so was I. We saw each others faults. Ater this revelation, things were made right by co-operating with God’s grace. I had to humble myself before my family, my fellow workers etc. Some of them did wrong, but they didn’t have the graces I had, my Faith. They were spiritually handicapped until they meet Jesus Christ. The humility countered the secret hidden pride I had in my psyche, we all have it as a consequence of original sin, it is a fault, but a devastating one that leads to sin It is spiritual blindness as a matter of “Not seeing the beam in one’s eye, remove the beam to see better to remove the splinter from you brother’s eye.” Only God can cure this situation.

Some ways to recognize the symptoms of self-righteous are; Having a good education and acting (unknowingly) superior to others, over-riding their opinions, I am always right attitude (an attitude of infallibility) Over-bearing, controlling, excuse for everything , self -justifying and dominating Failing to see and understand anothers perspective, failing to recognize another’s needs. We are completely unaware of this condition. Some others may be but we don’t listen to them. We don’t take their judgment or advice. Our judgment is superior, we are sure.

In our judgment we believe we are right and our knowledge and reasoning justify our actions We lack the humble disposition to regard our thinking as fallible, and our knowledge as limited, and fail to treat our judgement with a wise and healthy amount of self-scrutiny. In this state of mind no amount of reasoning and pleading from others is effective in reaching us. We are trapped in our own mental world by our limitation and hidden pride. We become accidental hypocrits because we contradict ourselves unknowingly. It takes God to give us the grace of enlightenment to reveal this condition of spiritual blindness. Axios I am not accusing you of this, but I know it is a universal spiritual condition, we all have it, Jesus warns us, and His saints warn us, such as the Late Padre Pio. God does allow us to suffer some very humbling experience to cure us so that we are disposed to receiving this special grace. I share with you and everybody this grace that is needed by everyone, I certainly needed it very much.

I know you love your wife, and family. like I wanted and loved my own. The thought struck me FWIW. From the history of your wife’s background, she was exposed to a lot of insecurity, and lack of love. She had good reasons for this condition through no fault of her own. To feel needed, is to have a feeling of security and love. We can take others for granted, because we feel secure. Maybe she liked the Emergency shows and ambulance shows because they are needed, and she could see a psychological connection to fulfill her feeling of being needed and loved Just a thought. Praying for both of you, 28 years had to prove something good!

 

[kbachler]

Why would axios want or need to chase down his wife and communicate with her when she is the one that left? She is the one that walked out of his life and the life of their sons. It is totally on her to communicate with him. Do you honestly think that something he is going to say is going to make her come back? No, only she will decide if she wants to come back. The burden is on her to try and fix what she did.

I cannot understand why some people feel it is necessary to come to this thread and lay blame on someone that has already been disappointed by their spouse. The OP came here for support. Yes, I understand that there may have been mistakes by the OP, but that doesn’t change the fact that SHE left.

No one should need to beg or plead with their spouse to return to them. Like love, it is a decision they would make. Axios’ wife has decided to leave and not to love.

We have one-half the story, and a man who says that when his marriage was faced with a challenge, his response was not to communicate.

Why should he want to talk to his wife? To help his marriage succeed - to be healthy. For exactly the same reason as he would treat an injury.

He and his wife BECAME ONE. I’m amazed at how many people don’t get what that means, and then criticize when its pointed out. I’m not saying he should crawl or sacrifice his personal self. I am saying that it is rare that a situation like this is entirely one sided. Does her behavior sound like that of an irrational person? It doesn’t to me. It sounds like someone who was tried and failed to communicate and then gave up. Or perhaps someone who decided that maybe if she gave her husband a shock he’d finally communicate. I don’t know - I can’t know. What I do know is that his half of the story doesn’t sound like the entire story - and certainly his response indicates a prideful approach rather than one with the best interests of the marriage at heart.

When faced with actions that the end of his marriage was imminent - what did he do? He was PROUD of the fact that he DIDN’T communicate.

People sinned against Christ and God their entire lives - He ENGAGED THEM in a conversation.

I’m sorry - I think you’re way off base here. It’s not about blame. It’s not about being right. It’s about working on the commitment you made - even when the other person cannot.

That doesn’t mean excusing them. That doesn’t mean telling them bad behavior is ok (Christ did neither of those right? - Yet He still started a conversation.) It means keeping communication open.

No one suggested begging and pleading. In fact, I think the opposite was stated. Begging and pleading is not a good idea. What WAS suggested was making certain that he was taking ownership of any failings in the marriage. What was suggested was making clear statements of what he wanted, emotionally and in the relationship.