(30% of) Firms to cut health plans as reform starts: survey

[Carlan]

Then those who can afford to pay more towards the bills, I pray they would be asked to and would heed the call.

Medicare for all is the way I’d go so I have no comment on in house vs out of house claims processing. I have experience with older relatives and Medicare. And newsflash. Most Medicare recipients are happy with their Medicare. Most don’t even have the private Advantage plans.

Keep in mind though I confess a chief concern of my politics and in my life is not as much about govt domestic spending as it seems with a lot of folks here.

Option b) sounds like it could be an option but then granted I understand some might have to make sacrifices in their lifestyles and for instance downsize in housing or drive a compact car like I do. My transportation is 6 yrs old but I understand doctors, CEOs and the like might need to put more miles on than I do so they might have to purchase a vehicle more often than in 6+ yrs. I also am not anticipating taking a vacation out of state this yr nor do I live in the the most beautiful home though it is not a dump. Just rather modest I’d say. I am just blessed and grateful to have a reliable mode of transportaion and a roof over my head as so many people today do not.

Finally as far as physican access, those here from Canada and elsewhere have explained they seem pretty happy with theirs.

God bless you with His many blessings and peace.

Just had to say Matt,we may be at loggerheads on a couple of faith issuesbut I do love your politics Peace, Carlan

 

[markomalley]

Pope’s Message to Health Care Conference

No problem with what the Holy Father said.

I don’t think you read what he wrote, though.

I do not see one single word where he advocates government-directed health care.

He is calling for Christians to make access to health care available throughout the world.

He is calling for a reduction in the consumerism that drives much of health care in parts of the world (such as cosmetic surgeries) and for those resources to be used to support primary care in other parts of the world that do not have health care. Could that mean people reducing their vanity levels some, and sharing their reduction in expenditures with their brothers in the developing world? Could that mean high-priced providers here offering to take up their cross and follow Christ into the developing world (sort of like a “doctors without borders” scenario)?

You do, of course, realize that in Italy (where this message was given), there are two separate health care systems. There is the public system that is socialized. Then there is a private boutique system that is funded through private insurance or cash…for the wealthy in Italy. I have experience with that. My wife had to have two surgeries while I was stationed in Italy. One was in a public hospital. Competent, but very, very, very spartan. One was in a private hospital. Luxurious to the max. Gourmet food (and tasty wine) served on fine china with sterling place settings. Private room. And the whole 9.

You don’t imagine that the Pope could have that kind of scenario in mind in his speech, do you? As far as talking about consumerism…

I don’t see how you could possibly interpret this message as being in favor of socialized medicine.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

America already provides universal health care not only for citizens but for immigrants also.I have never once heard that a patient who was sick who went to a hospital and turned down because of lack of funds.

It just so happens, I work in the healthcare industry (on an ambulance). We have a county hospital here, a Sacred Heart Hospital 20 miles away, and a large city to the East and West, both with two major hospitals each.

Sadly, the Sacred Heart requires insurance, or self pay. The county hospital has an obligation to stabilize life threats only. If a disease or cancer is identified specialists are required. The healthcare stops there, as specialists require insurance or payments, many up front.

Now, even at the county hospital, payment is expected but payment plans can be worked out.

The problem I’ve seen, in some life threatening instances, is when a patience has to decline treatment because they cannot afford it, or it would take what little their families had, and normally it is not enough to pay the bill completely. Many bankruptcies are a result of astronomical medical bills. This is not the quality of life, through healthcare, that the Holy Father is calling for, in my honest opinion.

 

[1holycatholic]

Post 58 has a translation directly from something the Pope wrote. I hope you don’t find it as ‘liberal’ as the other sources.

Where exactly does the pope throw subsidiarity under the bus?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

No problem with what the Holy Father said.

I don’t think you read what he wrote, though.

I do not see one single word where he advocates government-directed health care.

Did you miss the following?

Health justice should be among the priorities of governments and international institutions.

 

[1holycatholic]

Did you miss the following?

Where exactly does the pope throw subsidiarity under the bus?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Look people, it’s not that complicated. We know very well the teachings of Christ, without qualification or exemption. Now try reading what the Pope said without bias.

It appears healthcare for all is okay, as long as it doesn’t cost ‘me’ any money…

I can’t find that teaching anywhere in scriptures, or with what the Church advocates.

 

[1holycatholic]

Look people, it’s not that complicated. We know very well the teachings of Christ, without qualification or exemption. Now try reading what the Pope said without bias.

It appears healthcare for all is okay, as long as it doesn’t cost ‘me’ any money…

I can’t find that teaching anywhere in scriptures, or with what the Church advocates.

Where exactly does the pope throw subsidiarity under the bus?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Is Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Vatican secretary of state, a liberal Cardinal, or am I reading his comments wrong?

Pope calls for guaranteed health care for all people

The pope’s message was read by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Vatican secretary of state, to participants at the 25th International Conference of the Pontifical Council for Health Care Ministry at the Vatican Nov. 18-19.
…

Care for human life from conception to its natural end must be a guiding light in determining health care policy, the pope said.

In his own written statement, Bertone had strong words in support of the need for governments to take care of all citizens, especially children, the elderly, the poor and immigrants.

“Justice requires guaranteed universal access to health care,” he said, adding that the provision of minimal levels of medical attention to all is “commonly accepted as a fundamental human right.”

Governments are obligated, therefore, to adopt the proper legislative, administrative and financial measures to provide such care along with other basic conditions that promote good health, such as food security, water and housing, the cardinal said.

Private health insurance companies, he said, should conform to human rights legislation and see to it that “privatization not become a threat to the accessibility, availability and quality of health care goods and services.”

Bertone recommended that government leaders in poor countries use their limited resources wisely and for the good of their citizens.

The governments of richer nations with good health care available should practice more solidarity with their own disadvantaged citizens and help developing countries promote health care while trying to avoid a “paternalistic or humiliating” way of assisting, the cardinal said.

 

[markomalley]

Did you miss the following?

Hardly.

You are aware there are places in the world where people are denied healthcare, right?

I mean that you can’t see the doctor because you’re the wrong color, the wrong sex, the wrong tribe, the wrong religion.

Stop being so euro-centric.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Hardly.

You are aware there are places in the world where people are denied healthcare, right?

I mean that you can’t see the doctor because you’re the wrong color, the wrong sex, the wrong tribe, the wrong religion.

Stop being so euro-centric.

You can also be turned down if you can’t afford it in AMERICA.

(Read post 63.)

 

[markomalley]

Is Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Vatican secretary of state, a liberal Cardinal, or am I reading his comments wrong?

Pope calls for guaranteed health care for all people

National Catholic Reporter » Visit this site ncronline.org

   	      	  		 	**Description**

  *The National Catholic Reporter* is a lay-edited Catholic newsweekly. This website is an online version of the *Reporter.*  Its self-described mission is to "report, comment and reflect on the  church and society. It strives for excellence in its publications,  supporting a full, honest and open exchange of ideas. It works out of a  Roman Catholic tradition and an ecumenical spirit." Unfortunately, the *Reporter's* version of honest and open exchange is to criticize the Church and many of its most central teachings.

Because of the ever changing nature of this site, specific examples may vary. However, every visit to this site confirms its commitment to dissent. For example, a visit on July 11, 2007, reveals a fund raising effort which includes a free copy of the notorious dissident Sr. Joan Chittister’s book, From Where I Stand. We recommend that you resist the urge to contribute.
Review Ratings what do these ratings mean?

First Evaluated: 07/31/1997; Last Updated: 07/05/2010

1. • Fidelity: http://www.catholicculture.org/images/bugs/masters/red_bullet.gif Danger!
   • Resources: Poor
   • Useability: Excellent

1. 
   

     		                        	 		**Strengths**

      		None Reported. 		 	 	 	 		**Weaknesses**

   • Fidelity: Not-so-Catholic newsletters Example(s)
   • Fidelity: Subscribes to liberation theology Example(s)
   • Fidelity: Supports priesthood as a gay vocation Example(s)
   • Fidelity: Criticizes the institutional church Example(s)
   • Fidelity: Attacks the priesthood Example(s)
   • Fidelity: Dissidents as regular columnists Example(s)

   The message read by Card. Bertone was the same one from Zenit, you cited upthread.
   
   The difference is that the reporting on it had the typical NC Fishwrap spin on it.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The message read by Card. Bertone was the same one from Zenit, you cited upthread.

The difference is that the reporting on it had the typical NC Fishwrap spin on it.

It appears the spin is not only in the 4 sources I’ve provided…

Instead of claiming ‘spin’, provide something from the Holy Father that supports what you’re claiming?

You’re doing no more than using a source OUTSIDE the Church to make your points.

 

[markomalley]

You can also be turned down if you can’t afford it in AMERICA.

No, no you can’t.

(Well, you might be…but if so, it is a violation of Federal Law)

See the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1986, codified in 42 USC 1395dd

They might have to wait a while, but they are seen and treated for any kind of a serious condition.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Vatican official presses for universal health coverage

The president of the Pontifical Council for Health Care said that access to medical care is an important human right, as he spoke to the World Health Assembly in Geneva.

Cardinal Zygmunt Zimowski said that the world remains far away from “the much-desired universal coverage in health-service provision.” He said that wealthy nations should devote more of their resources to foreign aid, to enable needy countries to provide adequate care for their peoples.

 

[1holycatholic]

It appears the spin is not only in the 4 sources I’ve provided…

Instead of claiming ‘spin’, provide something from the Holy Father that supports what you’re claiming?

You’re doing no more than using a source OUTSIDE the Church to make your points.

Where exactly does the pope throw subsidiarity under the bus?

 

[markomalley]

It appears the spin is not only in the 4 sources I’ve provided…

Instead of claiming ‘spin’, provide something from the Holy Father that supports what you’re claiming?

You’re doing no more than using a source OUTSIDE the Church to make your points.

I read the document as directly translated and unfiltered from the Zenit source.

Just because you can only apparently find commentary on that source from left-wing sources does not change the content of the address reported, unfiltered, in Zenit.

I’m sorry if you have a problem with the Social Doctrine of the Catholic Church. But no amount of left-wing spin is going to change that social doctrine. Participation, Solidarity, and Subsidiarity are central parts of that teaching. And nothing by a left-wing source is going to change that.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Where exactly does the pope throw subsidiarity under the bus?

I have never said he ‘threw subsidiarity under the bus’. I merely provided several sources reporting on the Holy Father’s message to the WHO, as delivered by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Vatican secretary of state, including the actual message itself. I did ask if this Cardinal was a ‘liberal’, but it seems people are only interested in ‘flaming’ the messenger to bring this news to this thread’s attention? It would seem to me that the good Cardinal would be a reliable source?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I read the document as directly translated and unfiltered from the Zenit source.

Just because you can only apparently find commentary on that source from left-wing sources does not change the content of the address reported, unfiltered, in Zenit.

I’m sorry if you have a problem with the Social Doctrine of the Catholic Church. But no amount of left-wing spin is going to change that social doctrine. Participation, Solidarity, and Subsidiarity are central parts of that teaching. And nothing by a left-wing source is going to change that.

Are you referring to the Zenith link that I provided, where the Pope wrote the following?

Health justice should be among the priorities of governments and international institutions.

Actually, I have no problem. Did you miss that I asked if Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Vatican secretary of state, was a liberal Cardinal? His words were included as well.

Maybe the mistake is trying to ‘politicize’ our Church. The Church is the ‘ruling authority’ and is neither ‘liberal’ or ‘conservative’. It is the voice of God on earth. At least that’s how I view it.

Why not honor my simple request and provide something that endorses your view of ‘universal health care’? It would be on a more mature level than accusing me of having a problem with the Social Doctrine of the Church, or was that just an attempt to intimidate me into silence?

 

[1holycatholic]

I have never said he ‘threw subsidiarity under the bus’. I merely provided several sources reporting on the Holy Father’s message to the WHO, as delivered by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Vatican secretary of state, including the actual message itself. I did ask if this Cardinal was a ‘liberal’, but it seems people are only interested in ‘flaming’ the messenger to bring this news to this thread’s attention? It would seem to me that the good Cardinal would be a reliable source?

How does any of this apply to federal government health insurance schemes which directly contradict the principle of subsidiarity?