30% of Palestinians support Hamas

[gurrato_alaien]

Cont…

Palestine in Islamic History:

The history of Palestine represents the history of Islam from the first Prophet of Islam, Adam (peace and blessings be upon him), to the last Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). Palestine is the land of Prophets who were sent with the message of Islam and hence should not be ruled by anyone other than those who uphold the message of Islam by implementing its laws and regulations.

Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa was the second mosque established on earth forty years after the establishment of Al-Masjid Al-Haram.

It is a holy site where many of the Prophets were born or died, including Prophets Ibrahim, Lut, Dawud, Sulayman, Musa and `Isa. While Dawud and Sulayman were able to create Islamic states in Palestine based on divinely ordained laws, according to both the Bible and the Qur’an, their descendants strayed from the path, transgressed against the laws revealed by Allah and thus brought upon themselves Allah’s punishment which included banishment from the holy land.

Baitul-Maqdis was the site of Isra’ and Mi’raj of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) during the Makkan period of his message.

Palestine was brought under Muslim control at the time of `Umar ibn al-Khattab, the second caliph of Muslims. Palestine was then made part of the Islamic state being ruled by Islamic law. The new laws were welcomed not only by the Muslims but also by the Jews and Christians of Palestine who had formerly been living under the tyrannical Byzantine yoke. The Byzantines were persecuting the Christians of the area because the Palestinian Christians belonged to a different Christian sect. The Muslims, however, guaranteed all Christians freedom of religion regardless of their sect.

In 1099 A.C. Palestine was invaded by the European Crusaders and subsequently occupied for nearly a century. During the occupation massacres and great injustices were committed against the Muslim, Jewish and native Christian residents of the area. The only law applied in the holy land blessed by Allah was the law of force and persecution.

In 1187 A.C. Palestine was liberated by the Muslims under the leadership of Salah Ad-Din Al-Ayyubi (Saladin) who brought back Islamic law to the area.

In 1917 the British government issued the Balfour Declaration which declared Palestine to be a homeland for Jews. At the time Jews made up approximately 8% of the population of Palestine and owned approximately 2.5% of the land.

In 1918 the British and their Arab nationalist allies defeated the Ottomans. The British dismembered the Ottoman Empire and occupied Palestine. The British immediately began a campaign of immigrating European Jews to Palestine.

In 1948 the Jews claimed the establishment of a state for themselves over the land of Palestine and called it Israel. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims were forced out of Palestine under the military pressure of Jewish terrorist groups such as the Irgun, Levi, and Haganot which were financed and armed by the British army.

In 1967 Israel attacked Egypt, Jordan and Syria and occupied more land including, for the first time, Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa. Since that time Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa has been the target of several attempts by the Jews to destroy or burn it, including several attempts to bring about its collapse through underground excavations. The Jews know that Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa is symbolic of the Islamic nature of the land and want to remove any trace of Islamic civilization from Palestine.

Based on Palestine’s Islamic history and significance in the Islamic faith, and after the failure of all non-Islamic methods to free Palestine from Zionist occupation, the Islamic solution is re-emerging as a powerful and popular means to liberate the occupied lands. Islam is a religion of peace secured by divine justice. Only Islam offers respect to all divinely revealed religions as it is the only religion which recognizes all the Prophets from Adam to Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). It is the only religion which recognizes and believes that all the Prophets brought the same essential message and thus all people deserve the freedom to worship as they please without persecution or harassment. For this reason, it has historically proven itself to be the only tolerant religion with regard to the peace and sanctity of the Holy Land. Only Islam can bring back peace to the Holy Land and security for the unrestricted and unharassed worship of Allah, the All-Mighty, by all who believe in Him whether Muslim, Christian, or Jew.
Peace

 

[Hospitaller]

This is starting to remind of a debate with an evangelical Protestant I had a while back.

 

[Hospitaller]

This is starting to remind of a debate with an evangelical Protestant I had a while back. Trying to drown out debate with sheer weight of posts of dubious historical truth:
gurrato alaien:

Palestine was brought under Muslim control at the time of `Umar ibn al-Khattab, the second caliph of Muslims. Palestine was then made part of the Islamic state being ruled by Islamic law. The new laws were welcomed not only by the Muslims but also by the Jews and Christians of Palestine who had formerly been living under the tyrannical Byzantine yoke. The Byzantines were persecuting the Christians of the area because the Palestinian Christians belonged to a different Christian sect. The Muslims, however, guaranteed all Christians freedom of religion regardless of their sect.

Provided they paid the jizya, the land-tax, wore four-kilogram wooden crosses when they went out of doors, with special blue clothing so that they could be easily identified by their Muslim overlords, had painted or sculpted demons placed over their doors, the list goes on.
gurrato alaien:

In 1099 A.C. Palestine was invaded by the European Crusaders and subsequently occupied for nearly a century. During the occupation massacres and great injustices were committed against the Muslim, Jewish and native Christian residents of the area. The only law applied in the holy land blessed by Allah was the law of force and persecution.

Untrue again. Muslims and Jews were free to live in the Crusader states and practice their religion. Christians and Jews in the surrounding Islamic states were not so well-treated.
gurrato alaien:

In 1187 A.C. Palestine was liberated by the Muslims under the leadership of Salah Ad-Din Al-Ayyubi (Saladin) who brought back Islamic law to the area.

Re-occupied, in other words.
gurrato alaien:

In 1917 the British government issued the Balfour Declaration which declared Palestine to be a homeland for Jews. At the time Jews made up approximately 8% of the population of Palestine and owned approximately 2.5% of the land.

Interestingly, the British also created Iraq and Jordan, and the French Syria and Lebanon.
gurrato alaien:

In 1967 Israel attacked Egypt, Jordan and Syria and occupied more land including, for the first time, Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa. Since that time Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa has been the target of several attempts by the Jews to destroy or burn it, including several attempts to bring about its collapse through underground excavations. The Jews know that Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa is symbolic of the Islamic nature of the land and want to remove any trace of Islamic civilization from Palestine.

Israel had no other choice but to attack in self-defense. The country itself could not have sustained a defensive war against Egypt, Syria and Jordan, thus leaving them with the option of going on the offensive.
gurrato alaien:

Based on Palestine’s Islamic history and significance in the Islamic faith, and after the failure of all non-Islamic methods to free Palestine from Zionist occupation, the Islamic solution is re-emerging as a powerful and popular means to liberate the occupied lands. Islam is a religion of peace secured by divine justice. Only Islam offers respect to all divinely revealed religions as it is the only religion which recognizes all the Prophets from Adam to Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). It is the only religion which recognizes and believes that all the Prophets brought the same essential message and thus all people deserve the freedom to worship as they please without persecution or harassment. For this reason, it has historically proven itself to be the only tolerant religion with regard to the peace and sanctity of the Holy Land. Only Islam can bring back peace to the Holy Land and security for the unrestricted and unharassed worship of Allah, the All-Mighty, by all who believe in Him whether Muslim, Christian, or Jew.
Peace

Untrue again.

 

[Edris]

Hospitaller:

Untrue again. Muslims and Jews were free to live in the Crusader states and practice their religion. Christians and Jews in the surrounding Islamic states were not so well-treated.

“Jews were seen by the Crusaders as infidels, as bad as the Muslim occupiers of Jerusalem, and were slaughtered by Christian soldiers along their way to liberate Jerusalem and then thousands in the city when they got there. Following the first Crusade, a Papal Bull was issued in 1119 AD to reinforce St. Augustine’s earlier plea, in 427 AD, not to kill the Jews, but to allow them to wander the earth as evidence of their rejection by God.”

“There was no sanctuary for the people that the Church had branded christ-killers. Even sympathetic bishops were unable to protect the Jews from the roving armies. In the aftermath, the Church insisted that the countless forced baptisms were valid. Only the victims who protested at the exact moment of baptism would be recognized as Jews, but of course all of them had been killed on the spot. [Poliakov I, 47, fn6]
The atrocities were repeated on a larger scale when Jerusalem fell to the Christian armies. The crusaders slaughtered the city’s inhabitants: Muslims, Jews and Christians, men, women and children. The Franks’ own chroniclers admitted to killing 10,000, the mounted knights splattered in blood up to their hips. One wrote, “We slaughtered without regard for age or sex.” [Gontard, 250] Muslim sources wrote that the crusaders killed 100,000 people. Their violence shocked the Muslims, who had peaceably allowed Christian pilgrims to visit Palestine for several centuries.” suppressedhistories.net/secret_history/invasions_cross.html

 

[Hospitaller]

"The atrocities were repeated on a larger scale when Jerusalem fell to the Christian armies. The crusaders slaughtered the city’s inhabitants: Muslims, Jews and Christians, men, women and children. The Franks’ own chroniclers admitted to killing 10,000, the mounted knights splattered in blood up to their hips. One wrote, “We slaughtered without regard for age or sex.” [Gontard, 250]
Muslim sources wrote that the crusaders killed 100,000 people. Their violence shocked the Muslims, who had peaceably allowed Christian pilgrims to visit Palestine for several centuries.” suppressedhistories.net/secret_history/invasions_cross.html

Propaganda, I’m afraid.

I’d advise seeking your information from qualified historians drawing on the facts, rather than simple bias.

Civilian casualties at Jerusalem,1099.

 

[Hospitaller]

Interesting site you dug up, Edris, but really, are you quite certain that you, particularly as a Muslim, should be citing a radical feminist/matriarchalist group’s web-site quoting “Aztec birth-chants” and “trust in (the pagan Egyptian goddess) Isis” among other things as a reliable source of valid information on the Crusades?

 

[Booklover]

Hospitaller:

Interesting site you dug up, Edris, but really, are you quite certain that you, particularly as a Muslim, should be citing a radical feminist/matriarchalist group’s web-site quoting “Aztec birth-chants” and “trust in (the pagan Egyptian goddess) Isis” among other things as a reliable source of valid information on the Crusades?

Not to mention “The Secret History of the Witches”!. Yes, a very reliable source on the Crusades! Weird!

 

[KathleenElsie]

cute2904:

What about the 70%? Are they against hamas or, they are hamas themselves?

IMO The other 70% are most likely the silent majority just like in most other countries.

 

[Edris]

Hospitaller:

Interesting site you dug up, Edris, but really, are you quite certain that you, particularly as a Muslim, should be citing a radical feminist/matriarchalist group’s web-site quoting “Aztec birth-chants” and “trust in (the pagan Egyptian goddess) Isis” among other things as a reliable source of valid information on the Crusades?

Booklover:

Yes, a very reliable source on the Crusades! Weird!

“The first and second wave of Crusaders murdered, raped and plundered their way up the Rhine and down the Danube as they headed for Jerusalem.”
The Crusaders gave the Jews two choices in their slogan: “Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!” 12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed as the first Crusade passed through. Some Jewish writers refer to these events as the “first holocaust.” Once the army reached Jerusalem and broke through the city walls, they slaughtered all the inhabitants that they could find (men, women, children, newborns). After locating about 6,000 Jews holed up in the synagogue, they set the building on fire; the Jews were burned alive. The Crusaders found that about 30,000 Muslims had fled to the al Aqsa Mosque. The Muslim were also slaughtered without mercy.
religioustolerance.org/chr_cru1.htm

“The first mass killing of the Jews was carried out by the so-called People’s Crusade, which attached itself to the army of knights and followed on behind them… They came largely from Flanders. [But] they proceeded down the Rhine, where there had been large Jewish settlements, ever since Roman times, the oldest Jewish settlements in Europe. And they were really destroyed by these hordes, who felt that as a necessary preliminary to the Second Coming, it was necessary to kill all Jews. This was not the official Church doctrine. The official doctrine was that all Jews must be converted to Christianity before the Second Coming. But one way of settling this matter was to kill them, and there would be no unconverted Jewish left. And that’s what they did, in very horrible massacres………
In the middle of July (July 12th and 13th through the 15th) the siege machines enabled the city to be breached, the crusaders to rush in, and then the most terrible thing to happen: a slaughter, almost universal slaughter of Muslims and Jews in the city, which is still the worst stain on the Crusade, I think, that history leaves to us.”
pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/explanation/crusades.html

By J. Arthur McFall. “The Crusaders spent at least that night and the next day killing Muslims, including all of those in the al-Aqsa Mosque, where Tancred’s banner should have protected them. Not even women and children were spared. The city’s Jews sought refuge in their synagogue, only to be burned alive within it by the Crusaders. … The Europeans also destroyed the monuments to Orthodox Christian saints and the tomb of Abraham.”
gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/crusades.stm

“On July 15, the walls were breached. Some Jews were burned alive in their synagogues. The historian Ibn al-Athir wrote, Heaps of heads and hands and feet were to be seen throughout the streets and squares of the city (ibid).
Seventy thousand reportedly were slaughtered at the al-Aqsa Mosque. Surviving Jews and Muslims were expelled from the city. The Crusaders converted the Dome of the Rock into a church, and the al-Aqsa Mosque into a palace for the Crusaders kings which they called the “Temple of Solomon.” “
“Unlike Salah al-Din, who demonstrated compassion for the conquered, Richard after accepting the surrender of the inhabitants of Akko and after pledging that he would not harm them, proceeded to massacre them all, including women and children.”
nmhschool.org/tthornton/mehistorydatabase/crusades.htm

Peace

 

[Hospitaller]

“The first and second wave of Crusaders murdered, raped and plundered their way up the Rhine and down the Danube as they headed for Jerusalem.”
The Crusaders gave the Jews two choices in their slogan: “Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!” 12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed as the first Crusade passed through. Some Jewish writers refer to these events as the “first holocaust.”

You’re confusing the actual, official Crusade with the gangs of thugs in some parts of Germany who took it as an excuse to attack the wealthy local Jewish communities, as well as their fellow Christians. Their actions were condemned from the very first by both the secual and religious authorities.

hmml.org/centers/malta/publications/Lecture.html

Edris:

Once the army reached Jerusalem and broke through the city walls, they slaughtered all the inhabitants that they could find (men, women, children, newborns). After locating about 6,000 Jews holed up in the synagogue, they set the building on fire; the Jews were burned alive. The Crusaders found that about 30,000 Muslims had fled to the al Aqsa Mosque. The Muslim were also slaughtered without mercy.
religioustolerance.org/chr_cru1.htm

To be certain, they did kill a fair number of people, but the rules of warfare at the time dictated that if a city chose to hold out, rather than negotiating a surrender, then if it fell the besiegers could do as they pleased, traditionally for three days. The Muslim garrison of Jerusalem assumed that a relief army from Egypt would arrive and destroy the by-now exhausted, under-manned Christian army. They were wrong, and they paid the price for it.

It didn’t help matters in the slightest that when the priests accompanying the Crusaders organized a prayer march around the walls of the city, the garrison set up crosses on the walls and began to defile them in various ways and mock the Crusaders below on the ground, something that reportedly so enraged many of them that they were literally screaming threats of bloody vengeance, which many of them wanted to carry out when the city was captured on the following day.

However, the commanders, particularly Tancred, made an effort to control the troops under their command and placed the Muslims who had taken refuge at the Temple of Solomon under the protection of his banner, while Count Raymond accepted the surrender of the enemy who had taken refuge in the Tower of David, and allowed them to be ransomed

“The first mass killing of the Jews was carried out by the so-called People’s Crusade, which attached itself to the army of knights and followed on behind them… They came largely from Flanders. [But]
they proceeded down the Rhine, where there had been large Jewish settlements, ever since Roman times, the oldest Jewish settlements in Europe. And they were really destroyed by these hordes, who felt that as a necessary preliminary to the Second Coming, it was necessary to kill all Jews. This was not the official Church doctrine. The official doctrine was that all Jews must be converted to Christianity before the Second Coming. But one way of settling this matter was to kill them, and there would be no unconverted Jewish left. And that’s what they did, in very horrible massacres………

Already explained above.

 

[Hospitaller]

To continue:

Edris:

In the middle of July (July 12th and 13th through the 15th) the siege machines enabled the city to be breached, the crusaders to rush in, and then the most terrible thing to happen: a slaughter, almost universal slaughter of Muslims and Jews in the city, which is still the worst stain on the Crusade, I think, that history leaves to us.”
pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/explanation/crusades.html

Reconcilatory propaganda, I’m afraid.

Edris:

The Crusaders converted the Dome of the Rock into a church, and the al-Aqsa Mosque into a palace for the Crusaders kings which they called the “Temple of Solomon.”

Hopefully this won’t be considered a ban-worthy statement, but in truth, I don’t look upon that particular historical incident in a negative manner.

“Unlike Salah al-Din, who demonstrated compassion for the conquered, Richard after accepting the surrender of the inhabitants of Akko and after pledging that he would not harm them, proceeded to massacre them all, including women and children.”
nmhschool.org/tthornton/mehistorydatabase/crusades.htm

I’ll pull up a quote to address that, if you don’t mind:

Muslims could be, and frequently were, barbaric in their treatment of Christians and Jews. One example is how the Turks dealt with German and French prisoners captured early in the First Crusade prior to the sacking of Jerusalem. Those who renounced Christ and converted to Islam were sent to the East; the rest were slaughtered. Even Saladin, the re-conqueror of Jerusalem was not always merciful. After defeating a large Latin army on July 3, 1187, he ordered the mass execution of all Hospitallers and Templars left alive, and he personally beheaded the nobleman Reynald of Chatillon. Saladin’s secretary noted that:
He ordered that they should be beheaded, choosing to have them dead rather than in prison. With him was a whole band of scholars and Sufis . . . [and] each begged to be allowed to kill one of them, and drew his sword and rolled back his sleeve. Saladin, his face joyful, was sitting on his dais; the unbelievers showed black despair.{5}

In fact, Saladin had planned to massacre all of the Christians in Jerusalem after taking it back from the Crusaders, but when the commander of the Jerusalem garrison threatened to destroy the city and kill all of the Muslims inside the walls, Saladin allowed them to buy their freedom or be sold into slavery instead.{6}

It should also be noted that Templars, Teutonic Knights and Hospitallers were usually ordered killed by Saladin on the spot, there being no chance that they would abandon their faith for his.

probe.org/content/view/115/91/

 

[Lance]

All of this about the Crusades and the Old Testament are nice history lessons but what do they have to do with Palestinians supporting terrorist? If the Palestinians can’t field an army large and strong enough to fight the Israelis in a conventional war and they feel they must fight them, they should do it in a guerilla war. Guerilla war attacks military installations and civilian infrastructure, terrorist attack civilians. There is a big difference.

 

[Hospitaller]

Lance:

If the Palestinians can’t field an army large and strong enough to fight the Israelis in a conventional war and they feel they must fight them, they should do it in a guerilla war. Guerilla war attacks military installations and civilian infrastructure, terrorist attack civilians. There is a big difference.

And if certain members here would demand that the Israelis give up their territory (in whole or in part) because Arabs were living in the region prior to the establishment of the modern state of Israel, I would ask that the Islamic population of Egypt leave and give the land back to the Copts.

 

[jcaz]

Lance, very well though-out response.

Guerilla war attacks military installations and civilian infrastructure, terrorist attack civilians. There is a big difference.

I cannot disagree or argue with you. This is why those people are considered, by Muslims, as terrorists, because they are doing nothing to aid their cause, rather they are making their cause look bad and are killing civilians in the process.

Yes, that is a big difference.

Why do they not do that? Who knows.

 

[freedom_fighter]

gurrato alaien:

From the killers the criminals Israeli army and what about the Palestinians’s women and children? have you seen the link above?

no I am referring to killers Israel

DONT YOU DARE QUOTE THE QURAN ON A CATHOLIC WEBSITE…HOW DARE YOU…get a clue…stop watching your CNN also known as Communist News Netwok :tsktsk: