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JadeStarr
Guest
PNewton, if a person sees this event as entertainment then I agree with you. If it’s supposed to be a religious event then I don’t.
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LilyM
Guest
Read the website. None of it hits Father’s pockets - meaning that whatever is made over and above expenses goes to the Order and not to him.
Haven’t you heard the scripture ‘the labourer is worthy of his hire’? Haven’t you read how St Paul engaged in trade (tentmaking, for which he doubtless was paid the standard rate, or a bit less, like Fr Corapi is) to support himself?
Was Paul greedy because he made people pay for their tents and didn’t give them all away for free? Isn’t it enough that people who can’t afford the lectures CAN see Fr Corapi for free on EWTN (either over the internet or the cable channel)?
Nothing wrong with using your gifts to help your brethren in your religious order keep food on the table and a roof over their heads. Most religious orders make or grow - and sell - something in order to support themselves.
Would you rather they begged and were equally a drain on the rest us? That’s exactly WHY Paul used his talents to make a living - so as to earn his own way, give something back (a useful product) and not be a financial burden on others.
And if other lay workers can make THEIR living doing a godly work like producing or distributing his CDs and DVDs and or doing the grunt work that goes into his lectures, then what on earth is wrong with that? Shouldn’t we be encouraging this sort of work for people who might otherwise end up earning money in less wholesome ways?
It’s neither sin nor scandal that people who AREN’T vowed to poverty are helped to make a living by people who ARE. Or that those who can afford to pay for their work (and it is theirs almost as much as it is Father’s) are asked to pay for it?
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benedictgal
Guest
The priest receives a stipend from the parish, so, it’s not necessarily free. Priests are also given stipends for funerals, weddings and whenever they fill in for another priest at that pastor’s parish.’ Parishes take up a collection to cover operating expenses. These include the salaries for the clergy.
Thus, with all due respect, that argument really does not work.
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JadeStarr
Guest
BenedictGal, even if you don’t contribute to the Church you are STILL allowed into a Catholic Mass, no one looks askance at you if you don’t put something into the collection basket.
As I understand it, if people don’t pay to hear this priest they would not be allowed in, so
the argument DOES work, at least in this instance.
As I understand it, if people don’t pay to hear this priest they would not be allowed in, so
the argument DOES work, at least in this instance.
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Melchior_1
Guest
I’m sorry, you may have confused me with someone who had a problem with them charging money. No where in this thread did I say I had a problem with it. Go ahead, look through it. My comments were meant to justify WHY they should be charging money, actually.Read the website. None of it hits Father’s pockets - meaning that whatever is made over and above expenses goes to the Order and not to him.
Haven’t you heard the scripture ‘the labourer is worthy of his hire’? Haven’t you read how St Paul engaged in trade (tentmaking, for which he doubtless was paid the standard rate, or a bit less, like Fr Corapi is) to support himself?
Was Paul greedy because he made people pay for their tents and didn’t give them all away for free? Isn’t it enough that people who can’t afford the lectures CAN see Fr Corapi for free on EWTN (either over the internet or the cable channel)?
Nothing wrong with using your gifts to help your brethren in your religious order keep food on the table and a roof over their heads. Most religious orders make or grow - and sell - something in order to support themselves.
Would you rather they begged and were equally a drain on the rest us? That’s exactly WHY Paul used his talents to make a living - so as to earn his own way, give something back (a useful product) and not be a financial burden on others.
And if other lay workers can make THEIR living doing a godly work like producing or distributing his CDs and DVDs and or doing the grunt work that goes into his lectures, then what on earth is wrong with that? Shouldn’t we be encouraging this sort of work for people who might otherwise end up earning money in less wholesome ways?
It’s neither sin nor scandal that people who AREN’T vowed to poverty are helped to make a living by people who ARE. Or that those who can afford to pay for their work (and it is theirs almost as much as it is Father’s) are asked to pay for it?
So I’m not exactly sure why you’re directing all of that at me.
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pnewton
Guest
The two are not exclusive. For example, posting here.
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LilyM
Guest
You practically demanded to see the account books in regard the venture, and implied that unless people were making and spending money as YOU saw fit, they were probably being ‘greedy’, and that Father was lining his own pockets.
It sounded like you were doing the complete opposite of justifying him. It instead sounded as if you were laying down a whole list of conditions they’d have to satisfy and proofs they’d have to give you before you (to whom they aren’t answerable anyway) would condescend to consider the exercise to be justified.
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GwenL
Guest
People that don’t pay to hear Fr Corapi will be able to hear him at zero cost. Just wait a while and it’ll be on EWTN or Catholic radio. That’s how I’ll have to see (or listen to) the conference.
It’s a conference, not solely a Mass. It costs a bit more to put on a conference in a large public venue. I have no problem with the organizers charging $37 per ticket. I’ll give Fr Corapi the benefit of the doubt, until proven otherwise, that he’s not personally profiting unduly from the proceeds. I don’t think that he’s charging people to hear the preaching of the gospel. I think he’s charging people to underwrite the cost of putting the event on.
I’ll bet they fill up the place with enough people who are willing to pay. Even better, people will learn, grow spiritually, and come to deeper conversion in the faith. Who could have a problem with that?
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curlycool89
Guest
Don’t even get me stated on Shaw. They use their ability to bump commercials, given to them by the CRTC to have Canadian commercials, to put in more of their own advertisements (so pretty much you pay them and they solicit more business from you).Speaking of EWTN, it’s so not fair that Shaw Cable charges us a monthly fee to have that channelI think that EWTN actually doesn’t charge for the use of the network and Shaw is taking advantage of we Catholics grrr! On top of that, I wish there was a catholic radio station out here, which alas, we don’t… but they do have a protestant station. Yeah I’m just in a mood right now
I realize I can watch online, but it’s just not the same.
I hate Shaw.
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Corki
Guest
While Father Corapi is the main draw, it appears from the website that this is a program being presented to benefit The Alexandar House ministry. Besides Father Corapi, there is musical entertainment, which I am sure is not free. Why is everyone dumping on Father?
$37 to attend a day long event to raise money for a ministry is cheap at twice the price!
Whoever was talking about it being wrong to charge to preach the Gospel has not likely ever heard Father Corapi speak. He’s not giving homilies, nor preaching on the readings of the day. He speaks about the Faith, the Catechism and the state of the Church today.
JadeStar,
I don’t think anyone answered your question yet.
$37 to attend a day long event to raise money for a ministry is cheap at twice the price!
Whoever was talking about it being wrong to charge to preach the Gospel has not likely ever heard Father Corapi speak. He’s not giving homilies, nor preaching on the readings of the day. He speaks about the Faith, the Catechism and the state of the Church today.
JadeStar,
I don’t think anyone answered your question yet.
Most priests are not part of religious orders. Most of the priests we meet in daily life are diocisan priests, also called secular priests. Father Corapi is a religious order priest - the Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity to be exact. I believe (but may be mistaken) that they are Carmelite in spirituality.
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Melchior_1
Guest
“It sounded” is a lot like assuming, which as we both know makes a “something” out of you and me.
The point I was trying to make was that until those questions are answered, people should be careful in throwing the stones. For all we know, without looking at the books, 37 bucks a head might only allow them to break even on the event (or even come out on a loss) and they may rely on the sales of other items to turn a profit. Without those questions being answered there is a lot we don’t know, which is why I was saying people should reserve judgment.
In a worse case scenario I can see how you could think that I was saying “we don’t really know the whole story until we get more information”. In the best case scenario you would see what I was justifying the cost based on pure logistics alone, and the thinking of those questions would prompt people to consider “oh, there’s more costs in doing this than what we thought. Of course 37 bucks is reasonable”.
Of course, when I say “It’s no different than musicians and other public speakers. Plus there’s logistics involved. I’d like to know how much the costs of putting on the event is before casting too much judgment.” in reference to that people need to make a living and “but to play devil’s advocate; at Mass we also tithe 10% of our income (in theory anyway), do we not?” in reference to people saying we shouldn’t pay to hear a Priest preach…you’d think you would see what side I’ve come down on.
Based on all of that, I’m still not sure why you’d write your posts directed at me when others in this thread have clearly shown they don’t like the price of the tickets (or even charging for tickets in the first place)…while I certainly never went that far, and in fact am in favor of him charging money for speaking engagements.
If there’s a specific reason/issue you can send me a PM.
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LilyM
Guest
Given that human beings are neither readers of minds nor readers of souls, EVERYTHING we think we know about other people (apart from purely physical observations of height, hair colour or whatnot) is in fact an assumption. So that saying is a load of baloney.
The ‘worst case scenario’ is in fact far worse than you seem to think. The worst case scenario is you’re saying ‘I reckon he’s ripping people off, and I won’t be convinced otherwise until I see an detailed account of where the money goes’.
I haven’t had time to read all the previous posts on this thread thoroughly, so I apologise if you’ve said something elsewhere that belies that impression. Or if you think I should’ve responded to other people who posted ages and pages ago when the thread has moved on. I have neither the time nor the inclination to drag up old posts in that way
See, people usually ask for that sort of detailed information because they are either
a) the financial advisor, lawyer, tax agent etc, of the person they’re requesting it from, or
b) highly suspicious.
A husband who believes that his wife is being wise (or at least not incredibly wasteful) with the housekeeping money would hardly want to put the grocery bills under a microscope, after all.
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Melchior_1
Guest
The “worse case scenario” you describe, if you read my previous posts, is not applicable in this case…as you should be able to clearly see the direction I am coming from (I included my previous comments in the last post I made).Given that human beings are neither readers of minds nor readers of souls, EVERYTHING we think we know about other people (apart from purely physical observations of height, hair colour or whatnot) is in fact an assumption. So that saying is a load of baloney.
The ‘worst case scenario’ is in fact far worse than you seem to think. The worst case scenario is you’re saying ‘I reckon he’s ripping people off, and I won’t be convinced otherwise until I see an detailed account of where the money goes’.
I haven’t had time to read all the previous posts on this thread thoroughly, so I apologise if you’ve said something elsewhere that belies that impression. Or if you think I should’ve responded to other people who posted ages and pages ago when the thread has moved on. I have neither the time nor the inclination to drag up old posts in that way
See, people usually ask for that sort of detailed information because they are either
a) the financial advisor, lawyer, tax agent etc, of the person they’re requesting it from, or
b) highly suspicious.
A husband who believes that his wife is being wise (or at least not incredibly wasteful) with the housekeeping money would hardly want to put the grocery bills under a microscope, after all.
I accept your apology, and thank you for admitting you didn’t read my previous posts. If you did you would have saved yourself some time and energy. I’ve worked on conferences and retreats, so I know the costs involved with these things.
Oh, and you forgot Option C) An IT technician who knows about economics and process/project management, including a penchant for cost effectiveness and analysis. I like breaking things down in an analytical way. There’s no malice involved with that, no ill will. I just enjoy (and very reflexively I might add) will do cost effectiveness analysis and calculations, even for the most mundane things. And yes, I even analyze our grocery bill for cost effectiveness because that’s just how my brain works. That doesn’t mean I don’t trust my wife (I obviously trust her more than anyone)…it just means my brain works a certain way than others.
…it does explain why I do the groceries and not my wife though
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DiannaK
Guest
My husband and I are going to see him in Cincy, and I didn’t blink an eye. I think it’s a sound investment.Personally…I’d pay alot more to see Fr Corapi in person so I think $37 is a bargain… but that’s just me. Yes, I’ve seen him on tv a hundred times… for free. Now, Im not comparing him to Mother Teresa, or PJPII, but I would have definitely opted to see either of them in person over watching them on television. Maybe someday someone will say to you something like: “wow, you actually saw Fr Corapi in person! How cool was that!”
Two years ago I paid to attend the Boston Catholic Men’s Conference and I admit a large part of what drew me there was to hear Jim Caviezel speak about his part in the Mel Gibson film.** Also, let me apologize beforehand as I admit to being alittle starstruck by our “Catholic celebrities”.**
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PaulinVA
Guest
Well, as I said downthread, my problem is not that the tickets are almost $50 after you add handling fees. My problem is that there are “Catholic Celebrities” in the first place.
I understand the idea. I have gone to see Christoher West, and I enjoyed his presentation. It was worth seeing what it was all about. It was free and in a Catholic church. But, still, I’m not one of those people who flocked to talk to him or brought a bazillion books for him to sign.
I think the deal is that we are a religion that downplays individuals and emphasizes the universiality of the sacraments and the Mass. Within that context, what’s all this hero worship or swooning at the celebrity of Catholic people?
I understand the idea. I have gone to see Christoher West, and I enjoyed his presentation. It was worth seeing what it was all about. It was free and in a Catholic church. But, still, I’m not one of those people who flocked to talk to him or brought a bazillion books for him to sign.
I think the deal is that we are a religion that downplays individuals and emphasizes the universiality of the sacraments and the Mass. Within that context, what’s all this hero worship or swooning at the celebrity of Catholic people?
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DiannaK
Guest
I would daresay that the original post by MattCl was not one of ‘hero worship’ – I think that’s going a bit far.
I think that opposed to ‘secular celebrities’ – what’s wrong with admiring, and wanting to meet, or listen to folks like Fr Corapi, Jesse Romero, Danielle Bean, Lisa Hendey, the Popchaks, and more? These folks are living testaments to our Catholic faith, and ones I’ve read and listened to for years. As well, I think you’ll find that these people don’t have a ‘celebrity’ attitude … they are just doing the work of the Church, and evangelizing.
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Lycorth
Guest
Amen!
People naturally admire other people whom they see as doing something worthwhile or good. Oftentimes this is distorted into adoration of secular celebrities; people think the cheap amusements they provide equate to something worthwhile and noble and thus they feel compelled to honor them for it.
As long as admiration of “Catholic celebrities” doesn’t turn into genuine hero worship, with all the requisite fawning and obsession and bringing of the bazillion books to sign, and remains a sober admiration and respect for what So-and-So is doing for the Church and thus humanity, it’s hardly to be condemned. Such “Catholic celebrities” are a fine antidote for secular celebrity worship, so long as it also comes with the true Antidote - adoration of the Lord.
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Thunderbird
Guest
I’ll agree that there’s a thin line between “Catholic Celebrity” and just being popular for speaking God’s word. That being said, I’ve listened to a number of Fr. Corapi’s speeches, either via YouTube or EWTN and the man speaks a lot of truth that few other people dare say.
Put it this way: God gives us gifts, as well as the presence of mind to figure out how to put them to good use. In Fr. Corapi’s case, he has a charismatic way of conveying God’s Word and puts it to good use when he travels around the country/world. These aren’t the days of old, in Acts of the Apostles, where he can just find an open space on a street and start talking. If there are large crowds involved, he has to get permits, find a location where the people’s safety will be ensured, etc etc. Plus, as mentioned by others in this thread, most (if not all) proceeds go towards his Order. In other words, he keeps very little for himself. It would be awesome if someone could point to some official document stating it, just to keep the naysayers at bay.
So with that being said, I don’t mind the $37 cost and for the life of me can’t fathom why anyone else would have a problem with it, either. Wish I could go.
Put it this way: God gives us gifts, as well as the presence of mind to figure out how to put them to good use. In Fr. Corapi’s case, he has a charismatic way of conveying God’s Word and puts it to good use when he travels around the country/world. These aren’t the days of old, in Acts of the Apostles, where he can just find an open space on a street and start talking. If there are large crowds involved, he has to get permits, find a location where the people’s safety will be ensured, etc etc. Plus, as mentioned by others in this thread, most (if not all) proceeds go towards his Order. In other words, he keeps very little for himself. It would be awesome if someone could point to some official document stating it, just to keep the naysayers at bay.
So with that being said, I don’t mind the $37 cost and for the life of me can’t fathom why anyone else would have a problem with it, either. Wish I could go.
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Bob_Aliano
Guest
I realize how important Fr. Corapi must feel but in fact Jesus Himself did not charge His audience, in fact He fed them at no charge at the Sermon on the Mount! I don’t care who gets the money, it’s wrong to charge, the Church has more than enough wealth to support evangelizing, preaching, lecturing, whatever you want to call it.
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TexCatholic4JMJ
Guest
I don’t think Fr. Corapi is able to multiply the fishes and loaves. (sarcasm)
Why Catholics think that "the Church has more than enough wealth…"is beyond me.
This is an arguement I heard from protestants citing the art, etc in the Vatican. It is
there for our use (to see and be inspired). How long would the money, even in the millions,
last? We are not in heaven and utilities, food, salaries, maintenance and upkeep do not
come free.
Communities, such as the one Father Corapi belongs to, share in the labors of their members. Father Corapi’s work then will support others who may not be blessed with
his speaking talent, etc. The other members may have talents Father Corapi does not
have.
I can only shake my head and grit my teeth, when people complain that something like this
is costing $37.00!!! I have been to hear other Catholic speakers and it is different to be
able to “react” to his comments (clap, cheer ) and speak to others around you about
the talk. Those are things that aren’t done in Mass. Mass is worship and the homily
is not necessarily “teaching” but reflections on the day’s readings and brief at that.
After all there are others waiting for the next Mass!
I am trying to get to the talks and I have to factor in my driving time. (10 hrs) and cost
of gas, etc. It will be a bargain to be amongst Catholics (and others) who like hearing
what the Church actually teaches.
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