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Prodigal_Son1
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Everytime you see ‘word of God’ in scriptures, it is not necessarily referring to the written word. Much of God’s word was spoken through the prophets, by God’s revelations or Him speaking to the prophets.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
I am talking specifically about Psalm 138.
What do you think David was speaking of if it were NOT God’s revealed scripture?
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Can you not see priest delievered a book and the king HEARD the words. Then the king requested those men of God go enquire of the Lord, for him, the people and all Judah?
The priest explained the scriptures causing them to understand, just like the example given from Nehemiah 8. Which by the way, does your passage trump Nehemiah 8? Can we discard Nehemiah 8 now that you’ve found a scripture that you think contradicts the teaching given?
You cannot produce scriptures teaching each and every individual to interpret scriptures for themselves, because that is not written. The Church is the pillar and ground of truth and the place the manifold wisdom of God maybe made known, as it is written in scriptures. The unlearned, unstable and unwise wrest the scriptures, even to their own destruction.
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BrianH
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Naturally. However, the only place I know to find the spoken words of prophets or what was said to them is scripture.
Just saying…sorry to interupt…
I also believe that tradition, reason, and experience are factors to read and interpret scripture but the words of prophets…that i know of…is in scripture. Maybe you agree with that though…I don’t know
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
If you think NO one is able to interpret scripture then the Lord gave us a worthless book…
Paul writes,
“If any man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual,let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord” (1 Cor 14:37)
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Prodigal_Son1
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Actually, from the versions of the Bible below, including the Hebrew version, it speaks of His truth, not His word. It does not mention, or imply, scriptures that were written.
**(DRB) I will worship towards thy holy temple, and I will give glory to thy name. For thy mercy, and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy holy name above all.
(IHOT+) אשׁתחוהH7812 I will worship אלH413 toward היכלH1964 temple, קדשׁךH6944 thy holy ואודהH3034 and praise אתH853 שׁמךH8034 thy name עלH5921 and for חסדךH2617 thy lovingkindness ועלH5921 above אמתךH571 thy truth: כיH3588 for הגדלתH1431 thou hast magnified עלH5921 כלH3605 all שׁמךH8034 thy name. אמרתך׃H565 thy word
(KJV+) I will worshipH7812 towardH413 thy holyH6944 temple,H1964 and praiseH3034 (H853) thy nameH8034 forH3588 thy lovingkindnessH2617 and forH5921 thy truth:H571 forH3588 thou hast magnifiedH1431 thy wordH565 aboveH5921 allH3605 thy name.H8034
(KJVA) I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.**
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Prodigal_Son1
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Jesus appointed/ordained men over His Church. He said to take disputes to the Church, not scriptures. Scriptures tell us that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not scriptures. Scriptures tell us the manifold wisdom of God maybe made known through the Church, not scriptures.
Just as the priests were the men of God in the Temple, the appointed/ordained men are the men of God in His Church. Just as the men of God explained scriptures to the people, causing them to understand in the Old Testament, the men of God of the New Testament explained scriptures to the people and caused them to understand.
Now, please show me anywhere in scriptures, that one appointed/ordained themself? Show me anywhere in scriptures that someone who was not appointed/ordained, appointed or ordained another to be an authority in His Church?
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myfavoritmartin
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Is scripture his truth or not?
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
Mat 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not.
There was and is an authority over God’s truth. It is not every individual that appoints themself to be guided by the Holy Spirit, as evident with all the denominations, separated by the different interpretations and all claiming guidance of the one Holy Spirit.
God can protect His truth, even through sinful men, as long as we go to the authority over His earthly house to receive that truth.
Jesus did not tell the people, if you don’t like what the scribes and Pharisees are telling you, go and read for yourself and start a new house of God. Man cannot improve on what Christ started.
Mat 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
Mat 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not.
There was and is an authority over God’s truth. It is not every individual that appoints themself to be guided by the Holy Spirit, as evident with all the denominations, separated by the different interpretations and all claiming guidance of the one Holy Spirit.
God can protect His truth, even through sinful men, as long as we go to the authority over His earthly house to receive that truth.
Jesus did not tell the people, if you don’t like what the scribes and Pharisees are telling you, go and read for yourself and start a new house of God. Man cannot improve on what Christ started.
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BrianH
Guest
. Understanding the role of the church does not preclude using scripture. As you can of course agree with. What is the church to use if not scripture? Sure we can and do use tradition but tradition is rather fickle in places as you know. The oldest Christian communities hold to different traditions and thus we have differences between those of us who believe in both as well.
I can’t really blame Sola Scriptura folks for being confused about tradition, heck we are 
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
If NO one were able to interpret scripture what does Paul mean here?
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Prodigal_Son1
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Yes, it is ONE truth. It is not multiple truths as we see with all the denominations, each built upon a private interpretation that differs from one another, and all claiming guidance of the Holy Spirit. To understand the truth, you must go to the pillar and ground of truth, the place where the manifold wisdom of God maybe made known.
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Prodigal_Son1
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Does that verse mean we can ignore Peter, who specifically addressed Paul’s writings?
**2Pe 3:15 And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation: as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you:
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness. **
Scriptures do not contradict each other. They must be read within other scriptures to understand the full context.
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Prodigal_Son1
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You make a good point. We have scriptures, tradition and the Church. You cannot take one without the other. Jesus made an authoritative Church. The men of the Church wrote scriptures and through tradition they passed the scriptures and interpretations on to other men of the Church. We should trust in them, Jesus did.. Understanding the role of the church does not preclude using scripture. As you can of course agree with. What is the church to use if not scripture? Sure we can and do use tradition but tradition is rather fickle in places as you know. The oldest Christian communities hold to different traditions and thus we have differences between those of us who believe in both as well.
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myfavoritmartin
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BrianH
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But it really seems like Catholics are Sola Church. If the church says it, you believe it. But you know, you have to use scripture to find out if you believe that a particular church is that church. You did that Prodigal. Some of us…nope…
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Prodigal_Son1
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Paul said the Church of the living God is the pillar and foundation of truth.Still waiting for an answer.
Paul said the manifold wisdom of God maybe made known through the Church.
There is an interpreter, for the people just as there was an interpreter for the people in the Old Testament. They are the authoritative men of the Church, who with scriptures, tradition and guidance of the Holy Spirit give us the interpretation, so that we are ALL of the same mind and judgement, as Paul also said we are to be. He said we are to be of the same accord.
Did the Ethiopian eunuch understand scriptures, that he was reading? Not until an Apostle explained them to him.
Did those walking to Emmaus know the scriptures? Yes. Did they understand them? Not until Jesus explained the scriptures and open their hearts to them.
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Prodigal_Son1
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Christ built one Church. The men of that Church wrote scriptures. That Church preserved scriptures for the reformers to have. We all believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God. Who was the Church to preserve scriptures for the reformers to have?But it really seems like Catholics are Sola Church. If the church says it, you believe it. But you know, you have to use scripture to find out if you believe that a particular church is that church. You did that Prodigal. Some of us…nope…
Martin Luther, leader of the Protestant reformation told us.
The Bible itself tells us the Church is to be one.
**Joh 10:16 And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.
Eph 4:3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.
Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them.
1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.
Php 2:2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.
Rom 15:5 May the God of steadfastness and encouragement grant you to live in such harmony with one another, in accord with Christ Jesus,
Rom 15:6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
Joh 17:18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
Joh 17:20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,
Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
Joh 17:23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
Rom 12:4 For as in one body we have many members, and all the members do not have the same function,
Rom 12:5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,
Col 3:15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in the one body. And be thankful.**
The Bible tells us the Church was one.
**Act 15:22 Then it pleased the apostles and ancients, with the whole church, to choose men of their own company and to send to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas, who was surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren.
Jas 1:1 James, the servant of God and of our Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. **
The same letters were shared among the Churches. There was one Church in many locations. Look at Paul’s letters to the various Churches, does his teaching conflict with each other?
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Okay again read this, and pay close attention to the areas i bold…
And again i ask.
Doesn’t any man mean any man?
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Apryl
Guest
Er-um…
I see you posted early in the morning, but no one else has asked (in the posts I’ve seen)…
where the rest of the questions??
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