43,000 denomination source

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GKC said:
As far as I know, sure. Not sure each of those is a denom, not sure what a denom is, in this sort of reckoning, but, heck, toss 'em in.
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A denomination is that which answers to one authority.

So if these churches answer to no one but their pastor, they are a single denomination,
 
PRmerger said:
A denomination is that which answers to one authority.

So if these churches answer to no one but their pastor, they are a single denomination,
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Everyone on board with that as a definitive definition of a denom, press on. It leaves the World Christian Encyclopedia people out of the game, but as noted, they are not playing by those rules anyway, they have their own.
 
PRmerger said:
Anyone have any objections to my definition?
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Yes, on two counts.
  1. Some denominations are affiliations of congregations which are all self-governing. They don’t answer to a single authority, but they largely agree on theology, form of worship, etc. The Church of Christ is one such example.
I say “the” Church of Christ, but there are divisions between those that advertise their name and existence with a large sign vs those that look pretty anonymous, between those that have fellowship halls vs those that don’t think this is appropriate, those that have only a capella singing during worship vs those that allow instruments. I’m not familiar enough to know which of these are considered criteria for claiming such churches are inside or outside one’s own denomination.
  1. I agree with the source cited above that a denomination should include more than one congregation. It’s like the word “team.” You can argue that a single individual/congregation can qualify as these terms, but I think they are better defined as two or more.
 
Digitonomy said:
Yes, on two counts.
  1. Some denominations are affiliations of congregations which are all self-governing. They don’t answer to a single authority, but they largely agree on theology, form of worship, etc. The Church of Christ is one such example.
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If they don’t answer to any authority, save for their own pastor, then their theology is, essentially, *answerable to no one *save the pastor.

So let’s say the CofC professes, “We believe in the virgin birth”.

A pastor of a putatively CofC preaches, “Jesus NO WHERE says that he was born of a virgin. The Catholic Church, in an attempt to make sex dirty, made up this teaching.”

Since it is self-governing, there will be no repercussions for this pastor to preach something contrary to the CofC.

Right?
 
Digitonomy said:
  1. I agree with the source cited above that a denomination should include more than one congregation. It’s like the word “team.” You can argue that a single individual/congregation can qualify as these terms, but I think they are better defined as two or more.
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I am interested in knowing how many churches there are that preach differing doctrines.

So that would necessarily include a single congregation, if their theology differs from another congregation.
 
PRmerger said:
Anyone have any objections to my definition?
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I think it a little atomistic. I’d prefer the opening phrase of the WCE definition, or something like it: Any agency consisting of a number of congregations or churches voluntarily aligning themselves with it.

Your interests, as you state them, mold your definition. If anyone finds that definition inadequate, it certainly doesn’t make it so, for your purposes, as long as the definition is explicit (that’s the issue with the citations of the WCE numbers). Nor does it make it adequate for the other fellow. Every man his own Humpty Dumpty.
 
PRmerger said:
A pastor of a putatively CofC preaches, “Jesus NO WHERE says that he was born of a virgin. The Catholic Church, in an attempt to make sex dirty, made up this teaching.”

Since it is self-governing, there will be no repercussions for this pastor to preach something contrary to the CofC.

Right?
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Depending on how contrary it was, and how astute the congregation was, I suspect they might remove the pastor.

It sounds like you think each and every Church of Christ congregation should count as its own denomination, even though they have very similar theology and practices. Indeed, congregations hire pastors from other congregations without significant impact, because they share the same theology and practices of the Church of Christ.
 
Digitonomy said:
Depending on how contrary it was, and how astute the congregation was, I suspect they might remove the pastor.
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Why would they do that? They believe in the authority of the pastor to interpret Scripture.

Also, why would they remove the pastor for preaching what he believes to be correct? Isn’t that the mantra of the Protestant Reformation–that there is no earthly authority to which a man has to submit regarding an interpretation of Scripture?
It sounds like you think each and every Church of Christ congregation should count as its own denomination, even though they have very similar theology and practices.
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No. If they have the same theology and practices, they are not a different denomination.

But remember, there are independent churches on practically every corner in every city in every nation.

And they are independent of other churches’ theology and practice.

How many of these churches are there, affiliated with no one save the pastor who left his previous congregation over theological differences?

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Memaw said:
There aren’t !! There is ONE, HOLY CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC Church founded by Jesus Christ under the authority of the Pope in Rome. There are 21 Rites but they are fully Catholic and under the authority of the Pope. Can’t help what others call themselves. Pray for Christian unity as Jesus prayed for. God Bless, Memaw
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AMEN SISTER! :blessyou:
 
Memaw said:
There aren’t !! There is ONE, HOLY CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC Church founded by Jesus Christ under the authority of the Pope in Rome. There are 21 Rites but they are fully Catholic and under the authority of the Pope. Can’t help what others call themselves. Pray for Christian unity as Jesus prayed for. God Bless, Memaw
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That is what I suspected all along - that this statistic of 43000 denominations is simply not true.
 
PRmerger said:
Anyone have any objections to my definition?
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I have no objection for the simple reason that these small, independent communities cannot just “not count” when speaking of the number of denominations in existence. And the number seems to grow on a daily basis.

I just passed “The Feed Store Church” on my way back home from a trip. It is actually in an old feed store. We also have “The Cowboy Church” which attracts more folks then one might imagine. The Baptist Church has split into five separate organizations since I have lived here and not one of them now has the word “Baptist” in its name. What do you do with these folks.? Not count them? It is very fashionable not to belong to a mainline denomination. “We just believe in the Bible”.

No, I think your definition is more to the point if one is interested in the real picture. The glass just keeps shattering.

Peace.

Steve
 
Tomdstone said:
That is what I suspected all along - that this statistic of 43000 denominations is simply not true.
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OK Tom but this previous poster’s question is still begging…
PRmerger said:
So how many are there?

Please give the number of actual denominations, as well as your source.

I will be happy to use your number, as long as I find your source reliable and reasonable.
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Tomdstone said:
That is what I suspected all along - that this statistic of 43000 denominations is simply not true.
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Not being privy to the methodology used by the folks who are almost certainly the source of the figures often given for the number of denominations, I can’t say that they are “true” or accurate. But I can’t say they are not, for the definition of denomination that they are using, as quoted above.

The usual problem that arises in cases where someone attempts to make an apologetic point using those figures lies in the definition of denomination. Almost no one would define a denomination in terms of a single country, as the CWE folk do. And a common definition is essential, to allow meaningful conclusions. Personally, I have no idea what would constitute a generally acceptable definition, nor do I have any idea at all what such a definition would lead to, as a final number. Could be thousands. Could be many thousands. Could be more than that. But before counting chickens, you have to define a chicken.
 
Tomdstone said:
That is what I suspected all along - that this statistic of 43000 denominations is simply not true.
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So what is the correct number?

I would be happy to use it, provided I find your source reliable and accurate, and that it includes this church:

 
Tomdstone said:
What is your definition of a denomination?
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It’s an organization with its own theology that answers to a single authority.

What is the correct number of Christian denominations in the world?

And it ought to include this church:

 
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