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ericc
Guest
Thank you! I am considering adding
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Divorce
Contraception
Abortion
Female ordination
SSA
etc.
T
Tomdstone
Guest
Personally, I am opposed to burning people alive at the stake. I think it was very cruel and painful for St. Joan of Arc to have had to suffer this.So we can see that the charge that the Church was wrong to condemn that “it is contrary to the will of the Spirit to put heretics to death” is without merit.
God could certainly have willed it. Or not willed it.
M
Memaw
Guest
The Church didn’t do that, don’t believe everything you hear. God Bless, Memaw
M
Micosil
Guest
There is grave misunderstanding regarding the case of St. Joan of Arc – the bishop that condemned her, Pierre Cauchon, was a supporter of the English. She was subsequently exonerated, after she had been burned at the stake, and is now considered a saint.
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Picky_Picky
Guest
Does it in some way make you less of a bishop if you support the English?
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Reuben_J
Guest
Her trial was done by the English who had bought her for a sum of 10,000 livres tournois from the Burgundians, English allies, who captured her earlier. The tribunal was composed entirely of pro-English and Burgundian clerics, and overseen by English commanders. Bishop Cauchon lacked jurisdiction over the case as he owed his appointment to his partisan support of the English government which financed the trial.
Clerical notary Nicolas Bailly, who was commissioned to collect testimony against Joan, could find no adverse evidence. Without such evidence the court lacked grounds to initiate a trial. Opening a trial anyway, the court also violated ecclesiastical law by denying her the right to a legal adviser.
In other word, she was a prisoner of war of the English who wanted her dead for political reason.
J
Jerusha
Guest
My problems with capital punishment arise in the case of JS. Although his “theology” was grossly erroneous, and his civil offenses were many, the results were worse, with the ensuing minor war, and the rise of BY. There was a possibility of legal recourse, but it was iffy, and the anger of the people was uncontainable.Right.
So we can see that the charge that the Church was wrong to condemn that “it is contrary to the will of the Spirit to put heretics to death” is without merit.
God could certainly have willed it. Or not willed it.
In retrospect, I cannot judge.Mormon diverges from Catholicism in all but two of the above-mentioned unchangeable characteristics.
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ComplineSanFran
Guest
Of course the Church tried her for heresy and witchcraft. There were many politics involved of course, but all three burnings were ordered by the Church.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Another example of the abuses carried out by unscrupulous clergies.
M
Memaw
Guest
Thank You, the TRUTH will set us free, and God Bless, Memaw
Her trial was done by the English who had bought her for a sum of 10,000 livres tournois from the Burgundians, English allies, who captured her earlier. The tribunal was composed entirely of pro-English and Burgundian clerics, and overseen by English commanders. Bishop Cauchon lacked jurisdiction over the case as he owed his appointment to his partisan support of the English government which financed the trial.
Clerical notary Nicolas Bailly, who was commissioned to collect testimony against Joan, could find no adverse evidence. Without such evidence the court lacked grounds to initiate a trial. Opening a trial anyway, the court also violated ecclesiastical law by denying her the right to a legal adviser.
In other word, she was a prisoner of war of the English who wanted her dead for political reason.
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ericc
Guest
Capital punishment was all over the OT. I think Akin summed it pretty concisely.
M
Memaw
Guest
Your right, there IS grave misunderstanding about Joan of Arc but it’s not on the side of the Church. God Bless, Memaw
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benhur
Guest
Or not part of the Church, as in “the Church didn’t do that” ?
B
benhur
Guest
No, he summed it up quite defensively. He alludes any error (in the brief statement PR posted). Killing of righteous prophets is also all over the OT and NT.
B
benhur
Guest
Well, at least not anymore, and too late for St. Joan.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Latin Church only considers the ecclesia and not imperialism…attribute of Byzantine Church.
Reformation was fueled by nationalism in England and Germany particularly…sad to see old Christian countries at war with each other…
As John Paul II stated, we only hold on to what is best of our culture to maintain our Christian unity that should transcend nationalism.
Reformation was fueled by nationalism in England and Germany particularly…sad to see old Christian countries at war with each other…
As John Paul II stated, we only hold on to what is best of our culture to maintain our Christian unity that should transcend nationalism.
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benhur
Guest
Hi Kathy,
Are you sure about this, I mean historically, not today? How does the latin church not consider Imperialism when she crowned emperors ?
Partly true , but it was that the reformation would not have been allowed or been established otherwise given the intertwining of church and state.
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benhur
Guest
Hi reuben, you got me thinking and reading.
Her trial was done by the English who had bought her for a sum of 10,000 livres tournois from the Burgundians, English allies, who captured her earlier. The tribunal was composed entirely of pro-English and Burgundian clerics, and overseen by English commanders. Bishop Cauchon lacked jurisdiction over the case as he owed his appointment to his partisan support of the English government which financed the trial.
Clerical notary Nicolas Bailly, who was commissioned to collect testimony against Joan, could find no adverse evidence. Without such evidence the court lacked grounds to initiate a trial. Opening a trial anyway, the court also violated ecclesiastical law by denying her the right to a legal adviser.
In other word, she was a prisoner of war of the English who wanted her dead for political reason.
Yes, the Duke of Burgundy had Joan but was subservient to King’s (England) wishes. She was going to be executed one way or another, per King’s request. The trial was* not *done by the English but yes, partly backed by the crown , who also paid the Duke for her delivery to the Church/inquisition, as the Church demanded.
The bishop of Beauvais was pro English and after 10 years as bishop was ousted when the French side won (and thus had an axe to grind). Certainly the Vicar-General of the Inquisition had jurisdiction and demanded Joan, as was also suggested by the University of Paris, and appointed the bishop to run the farcical trial. There was one cardinal , six bishops, 32 doctors of theology etc.They were mostly pro English. They did deny Joan an appeal to pope or to Council at Basle (where there were at least pro French as pro English). So yes, it was the Church, but only a small and hostile portion of it. It is not pretty when offices are bought (or financed) and politics get involved…
She was about to be found guilty (70 articles). An underlying theme was the principle of private judgement (listening to her voices and inner revelations) as opposed to simple obedience to the Church. At the last moment she signed (with a cross) a retraction. She was fully reinstated to the Church but would remain a prisoner, in English ruled land. She then recanted on her confession a few days later and was deemed a relapsed heretic, excommunicated, and burned the next day by civil authorities.
M
Micosil
Guest
Your status as bishop stays with you till death, as the sacrament of Holy Orders leaves an indelible mark on the soul.
That doesn’t somehow prevent deacons, priests or bishops from having political interests, though. The point here wasn’t to undermine the bishop’s episcopal consecration, but to point out his political motivations.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Yep. A mistrial. They did not have a case against her.
Anyway, she was exonerated posthumously and made a saint.
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