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gracepoole
Guest
The Vatican does not identify these as the only non-negotiable issues. And while they are not confined to US politics, “Issues for Catholic Voters” is a US-based publication.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
The opinion of Tim Staples does not rise to the level of infallible dogma of the Church.
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shockerfan
Guest
So where is Tim’s theology wrong?
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graciew
Guest
I would say that the five issues mentioned involve the sacred: Life is sacred.
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It would be playing God.And allowing it...
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GEddie
Guest
Indeed. If you are without life, then none of the rest of it is even relevant.
ICXC NIKA
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_Abyssinia
Guest
The idea that there are non negotiables is not something just promoted by lay Catholics. look what Bishop Morlino and Bishop Sheridan have said, though they differ somewhat:
My emphases.
m.host.madison.com/wsj/lifestyles/faith-and-values/religion/in-the-spirit-bishop-morlino-lists-non-negotiable-issues-for/article_8cb94448-26af-11e2-84d5-001a4bcf887a.html
ignatiusinsight.com/features/bishopsheridan_aug04.asp
My emphases.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
It is perfectly OK for Tim Staples to believe what he does. It does not necessarily mean there is anything wrong with his theology. But if you are claiming that his guidelines are Church dogma, the burden is on you to show that it is - not on me to show that it isn’t.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Graciew
Agree wholeheartedly.
The first five deal with the sanctity of human life and its continuation of human life.
The others become moot if there is no human life to live these acts.
Agree wholeheartedly.
The first five deal with the sanctity of human life and its continuation of human life.
The others become moot if there is no human life to live these acts.
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commenter
Guest
With some issues, like the ones identified, there is no wiggle room. It’s either a yes or no.
There are other issues, like “helping the poor”, in which different strategies have been proposed by both parties, different economists, etc over the years. The goal is undeniable but reasonable people have differed on how to get there. The Church says “help the poor” but does not direct which of the many strategies Catholics should support.
Neither US political party is perfectly aligned with Catholic Social Teaching. But one is unalterably opposed to it, while the other is somewhat undecided, could go either way.
Some people argue that the Church should give equal attention to all social issues. In my last parish seemed to promote about 25 “peace and justice” issues a year. Almost all except abortion were taken verbatim from the daily newspaper. Prolifers - and nobody else - were constantly attacked for supposedly being obsessed with one issue. If prolife gets only 4% of attention, that sends a message.
The Church should always emphasize whatever truth is currently being neglected.
When a good sermon is given, people will be saying “Oh, yeah, I had forgotten about that”; or “why is he still bringing up that old topic?”
There are other issues, like “helping the poor”, in which different strategies have been proposed by both parties, different economists, etc over the years. The goal is undeniable but reasonable people have differed on how to get there. The Church says “help the poor” but does not direct which of the many strategies Catholics should support.
Neither US political party is perfectly aligned with Catholic Social Teaching. But one is unalterably opposed to it, while the other is somewhat undecided, could go either way.
Some people argue that the Church should give equal attention to all social issues. In my last parish seemed to promote about 25 “peace and justice” issues a year. Almost all except abortion were taken verbatim from the daily newspaper. Prolifers - and nobody else - were constantly attacked for supposedly being obsessed with one issue. If prolife gets only 4% of attention, that sends a message.
The Church should always emphasize whatever truth is currently being neglected.
When a good sermon is given, people will be saying “Oh, yeah, I had forgotten about that”; or “why is he still bringing up that old topic?”
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KathleenGee
Guest
The Roman Church is still deeply divided, irregardless if we have a more conservative or liberal pope, such definitions of themselves a contradiction to the absolutes of Christian belief.
I believe this interior split can in time be resolved with our reunion with the Orthodox, although there are some churches that uphold the use of contraception.
There is an article out there in cyberspace wondering why Catholic men are leaving the Catholic Church, and another on why the Orthodox stay.
It is the Latin Church where we suffered great losses to the fragmentation of our faith. The Orthodox were not vulnerable. Why?
We are in a stalemate.
I believe this interior split can in time be resolved with our reunion with the Orthodox, although there are some churches that uphold the use of contraception.
There is an article out there in cyberspace wondering why Catholic men are leaving the Catholic Church, and another on why the Orthodox stay.
It is the Latin Church where we suffered great losses to the fragmentation of our faith. The Orthodox were not vulnerable. Why?
We are in a stalemate.
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awke
Guest
Responses like this make me embarrassed to be a Catholic.
No. There is no wiggle room on helping the poor. Read the Gospel again.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Let’s look at just one of these issues: gay marriage. Do you claim that allowing a few same-sex couples to be legally married is going to make all lesser issues moot? I don’t think so!
Even abortion, arguably the most serious of these five, does not make the exercise of other issues moot. Sure, for those that are aborted, they have no recourse to any other benefits of social justice. But there are many more people that are not aborted. And some of those people will be in severe need. To those people the exercise of Christian charity will not be moot.
It is nonsense to say that if these five issues are not completely taken care of, no other Christian duties will matter at all, and that is what moot means.
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Convert1
Guest
Thanks, Geddie. My point exactly.
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pnewton
Guest
This reminds me of something else I heard.
*“I have never understood the expression non-negotiable values. Values are values, and that is it. I can’t say that, of the fingers of a hand, there is one less useful than the rest. Whereby I do not understand in what sense there may be negotiable values.” *- Pope Francis
If the pope doesn’t get it, I think you are on solid ground not understanding it as well.
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jediliz
Guest
The gospel does not say have the government take care of them. And when your safety us at risk, yes, you can and should restrict refugees. Do you want another San Bernardino or Boston marathon type attack?
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edwest2
Guest
This is not the right place to argue politics on this forum. I have zero party affiliation by the way.
Ed
A
awke
Guest
Social Justice seemed like an appropriate place, since the topic is about Social Justice. But feel free to move this wherever it should fit.
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edwest2
Guest
Actually, we are still living in Medieval times. There are the rich and the peasants. A small minority of rich people own most of everything. If the lights went out right now, we’d be right back there.
Sure, we have tech that did not exist then but the basic formula is the same.
Ed
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pnewton
Guest
Neither does the gospel give us an exemption on charity when it comes to how we act as citizens and voters.
I think most of us know that we cannot eliminate the risk of violence that we are exposed to. People killed other people throughout history. We are free to promote methods of security that might help reduce violence, through control and identification of immigrants and/or firearms, but we cannot allow fear lead us to abandon charity, personally or as a nation. We still have a moral responsibility to assist those in need.
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