5 out of 33,000 Saved

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Perhaps this statement also needs to be put in a proper historical context. The 33,000 people who died in the statement probably died from the Black Plague which was then ravaging Europe and inspiring a lot of apocalyptic and hellfire/damnation sermons like St Leonard of Port Maurice preached. Most people at that time were concerned with mostly survival and where their next meal was coming from while on the other hand the rich and powerful weren’t interested in the gospel of Jesus or the church but, gave lip service for sake of appearance.
In terms of private revelations, this one is really a downer and doesn’t lead to the joy of following Jesus. Yes we very much need to pray that in our world the odds of getting to heaven are better than 5/33000. There are lots of voices in our world to distract us from seeking the Lord and from walking in his ways. I watch lots of movies and videos at night because I’ve been in constant pain for the past 10 years and they help to distract me from it but, I have to say 90% of the messages they’re sending us are evil and wrong and the internet also has alot of bad websites as well. The scary thing is how addicted we really are to all of it. I have a protestant friend that absolutely can’t miss American Idol (the name says it all don’t it) so on Wednesdays she records it so she can go to Bible study at her church and then stays up late watching it. She is now part of a liturgical church and during Lent the subject of giving something up came up. She gave up cheetos rather than American Idol and this is a devout Christian.
I hear people taking about meatless Mondays based on a recommendation of the WHO. Maybe we should have un-plugged Fridays, leave the computer off, turn off the TV lock up the cell phone,no texting and spend that day in prayer especially during Lent.I wonder how many people could do it now days.
If this proportion is true then where does that leave positive private revelations like the Brown scaplar promise and the 9 first fridays and stuff like that? My God is a God of mercy who wants sinners to be saved and not just 5 especially righteous souls
Perhaps, if we’re going to focus on private revelations these would be more advantangeous for our souls sake.
If I feel like God is a cosmic cop waiting around to bust us so He can send us to Hell that’s not going to give me a healthy prayer life or spirituality. We should go to Mass not because its an OBLIGATION:( bur because we love Jesus who saved us by dying on the cross out of his love for us and by going to Mass we return that love to him.
 
Marija one of the visionaries from Medjugorje saw a vision of hell and this is what she said

“In the moment of death, God gives us the light to see ourselves as we really are. God gives freedom of choice to everybody during his life on earth. The one who lives in sin on earth can see what he has done and recognize himself as he really is. When he sees himself and his life, the only possible place for him is hell. He chooses hell, because that is what he is. That is where he fits. It is his own wish. God does not make the choice. God condemns no one. We condemn ourselves. Every individual has free choice. God gave us freedom."

I’m thinking well one would have to choose hell if given a look at their past as a good deal of us have all done things we aren’t proud of. So I’m thinking that if we think that we are all that good and think we are good enough for heaven then we are vain and to me that is a sin. It seems that we almost must choose hell if we are to be honest with oneself. That seems so sad as I don’t want to spend eternity without God, but reading the above quote, doesn’t seem like very many make it to Heaven.

Kim
 
Also remember that your entrance into heaven doesn’t really depend on home much God loves you (He loves you infinitely) but how much you love God. As such, only 5 out of 33,000 people truly loved God.
 
What an interesting story. Narrow indeed is the gate. All I have to say is that all we can do is pray for them and beg God to lead them in the right direction. Heaven would be a pretty empty place without the 32,995 there with us. =
 
TheQuestioner said:
Also remember that your entrance into heaven doesn’t really depend on home much God loves you (He loves you infinitely) but how much you love God. As such, only 5 out of 33,000 people truly loved God.
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But how does this sort of sermon motivate love for God? After reading this sort of stuff, it can trigger my Scruples and maybe despair, but it also causes me to hate God extremely.
 
nsper7 said:
But how does this sort of sermon motivate love for God? After reading this sort of stuff, it can trigger my Scruples and maybe despair, but it also causes me to hate God extremely and to wish I could have been one of the Romans tormenting Christ.
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Let’s look at the numbers again. Firstly, someone wrote that this was during the Black Plague. Saint Bernard died 200 years before the black plague, so that rules out the plague as a cause of so many deaths in an hour. What else in history might have happened that would be the cause of som many deaths in one hour? History is silent.

The city of Pompei was entirely wiped out by a volcano, Mt. Vesuvius, in antiquity. Natural disasters like this are all recorded in history. This was a big one and as a result it is well remembered. The population of Pompei is estimated to have been 10 to 20,000.

Saint Bernard died in about 1154 if I recall. I do not believe there is any historical event that would have taken 33,000 lives in one hour in that year, but I could be wrong.

We should assume that this number of deaths, 33,000, was fairly average, normative, if history can not provide an event that would explain why there would be so many in a particular hour.

If that many people died in one hour, over the course of a year it would come to about 300 million deaths. The entire population of the world in that century was over 250, but less than 300 million.

The story is not believable.
 
nsper7 said:
But how does this sort of sermon motivate love for God? After reading this sort of stuff, it can trigger my Scruples and maybe despair, but it also causes me to hate God extremely.
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This thread and its statistics of who’s in and who’s out really show me i am destined for hell. I am not arguing thats its wrong just that i and by the thread most of us here are destined for the lake of fire.

I have thought to myself, if i am going to burn anyway is would not bother to serve others and look after me. Spend money on my own self, buy a car that does not leak when it rains, do my garden up instead of other peoples.

But i cant now, i want to love Him so much, I have decided better i spend this time serving you and burn knowing His judgements are just.

In witnessing to people i dont offer these type of statistics and dont focus on scripture that sends us to help but on the goodness.

If us working hard helps you 5 in 33k then i guess its ok.

It is why i dont have as much joy as those who believe everyone is in.

Life is hard then you burn in hell, oh joy

I dont hate G-d i believe Him just, i guess it is me i hate.
 
nsper7 said:
But how does this sort of sermon motivate love for God? After reading this sort of stuff, it can trigger my Scruples and maybe despair, but it also causes me to hate God extremely.
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My confessor once told me that this homily of St. Leonard of Port Maurice wasn’t written for people like me who are seriously trying to do God’s will - he said it was written for unrepentant people. Couldn’t unrpetentant souls benefit from hearing about the consequences of their sins (hell)? Would they be better motivated by a homily on how little God is loved, how much God deserves to be loved and how we should all be trying our hardest to do his will? People still steeped in sin and who are seriously unrepentant might benefit better from a shock like found in this homily. Unrepentant sinners have lots of self-love, not love of God…it is possible that out of this great self-love they’d be more motivated by a homily that encourages them to preserve their immortal souls from hell more than they would by a homily that got into how much God deserves to be loved and how we should only be doing his will. Some unrepentant souls could be inspired by a good homily on how we should love God above everything and how we should earnestly be striving to do his will, but many won’t and might need just the sort of shock that St. Leonard gives in his homily.
 
What a great reason to be Catholic, to induce people to become Catholic. Become Catholic, because you will have a 1 in 6,500 chance of avoiding hell.
 
I do not know if I truly believe this story. It does not mesh with the teaching of the Catholic Church or with the nature of God. There are several possibilities. One is that this sermon accredited to this Saint was not genuinly given by this Saint. Second, that the sermon, like the teaching of Jesus, made use of exaggeration. Third, that the Saint was wrong, having himself believed a story wrongly accredited to some one else. There is a little too much of “he said that he said that he said” quality to this. In any case, I will stick to the Catechism.
 
I have been reflecting and praying on these statistics, been thinking of the people i have been blessed to meet on my walk, i cant remember 6,500 individuals.

There must be some very nice people in hell, well at least i thought they were.
 
pnewton said:
I do not know if I truly believe this story. It does not mesh with the teaching of the Catholic Church or with the nature of God. There are several possibilities. One is that this sermon accredited to this Saint was not genuinly given by this Saint. Second, that the sermon, like the teaching of Jesus, made use of exaggeration. Third, that the Saint was wrong, having himself believed a story wrongly accredited to some one else. There is a little too much of “he said that he said that he said” quality to this. In any case, I will stick to the Catechism.
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I am a poor reader what does the Catholic Church say or does she not say directly on this?
 
Steven_John said:
I am a poor reader what does the Catholic Church say or does she not say directly on this?
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She does not say. That is the point. The Catholic Church does not attach numbers to such things. In fact, there is no one, not one soul that has ever been said specifically to be in Hell.
 
Bless you Bro, best i just keep aspiring to be faithful until the end aspiring to do better and serve you all better.

G-d is most merciful, His mercy is is more capable than all of our sin.

Where I am sent it will be just and fair to all of you, what more could i ask.

May G-d bless and guide us all as wee seek to walk in the way of our messengers (pbut)
 
grandfather said:
What a great reason to be Catholic, to induce people to become Catholic. Become Catholic, because you will have a 1 in 6,500 chance of avoiding hell.
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You know if this was the real odds nobody but a fool would take such a bet. Maybe John Calvin or the protestant guy that preached the “Sinners in the hands of an Angry God” sermons. Frankly I think our focus should be on “HELL don’t go there” and praying for those many folks that are going there especially the I’m saved so I can sit on my donkey and do nothing folks which includes repenting of sins and not presuming on God’s mercy. “If you’re saved Jesus’ blood has already washed away your sins-past present and future.” These same folks also condemn us because some monks sold indulgences that were supposed to do just that.in the Middle Ages.
 
Annabelle41415 said:
Marija one of the visionaries from Medjugorje saw a vision of hell and this is what she said

“In the moment of death, God gives us the light to see ourselves as we really are. God gives freedom of choice to everybody during his life on earth. The one who lives in sin on earth can see what he has done and recognize himself as he really is. When he sees himself and his life, the only possible place for him is hell. He chooses hell, because that is what he is. That is where he fits. It is his own wish. God does not make the choice. God condemns no one. We condemn ourselves. Every individual has free choice. God gave us freedom."

I’m thinking well one would have to choose hell if given a look at their past as a good deal of us have all done things we aren’t proud of. So I’m thinking that if we think that we are all that good and think we are good enough for heaven then we are vain and to me that is a sin. It seems that we almost must choose hell if we are to be honest with oneself. That seems so sad as I don’t want to spend eternity without God, but reading the above quote, doesn’t seem like very many make it to Heaven.

Kim
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St Catherine of Sienna dealt with this very issue.

Yes each sees what they have done in the past. But there is another factor, and that is where they currently are. In this we will fall into three catagories.
  1. Those who have passed their lives in evil and, having done so, embrace that evil at the point of death and go to hell.
  2. Those who have lived, and become perfected in Godly Love and so, at the point of death, reach out and claim that Love and go directly to heaven.
  3. Those who have lived, but not been perfected, in Godly Love. These reach out to God’s mercy and go to Purgatory.
To me - Number one applies to a great many people from atheists to “nominal” christians etc. They are like the seeds on the path and the stony ground and the brambles. They have no roots and dies in dispair.
Group two are those, of whatever faith path, who have truly dedicated their lives to Loving God and man, and have had the opportunity to become “perfected” in this Love. Length of life here is not an issue, but rather committment and strength.
Group three are those trying to achieve what group two has achieved. In the meantime they (we) rely on God’s mercy to lift us up and carry us.

So groups two and three rely on God’s Mercy and His Love. Group one does not.

Peace
James
 
scottywolf777 said:
You know if this was the real odds nobody but a fool would take such a bet. Maybe John Calvin or the protestant guy that preached the “Sinners in the hands of an Angry God” sermons. Frankly I think our focus should be on “HELL don’t go there” and praying for those many folks that are going there especially the I’m saved so I can sit on my donkey and do nothing folks which includes repenting of sins and not presuming on God’s mercy. “If you’re saved Jesus’ blood has already washed away your sins-past present and future.” These same folks also condemn us because some monks sold indulgences that were supposed to do just that.in the Middle Ages.
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The Bible seems to contradict itself. In fact Jesus seems to contradict Himself. He says that the way to eternal life is straight and narrow and few go that way. The way to death is broad and wide and many go that way.

He also says that IF He is raised on the third day He would draw ALL men to Himself. He also tells Peter that Peter is the rock on which Jesus will build His Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against her.

What do gates do? They allow or prevent egress, coming and going. We have the imagery of ancient walled cities with gates. The walls and gates are defensive, to keep out invaders who would destroy and plunder the city. If the gates are torn down the city is sacked and ruined by the army that comes to destroy it. The gates of hell will not prevail, Jesus says.

Jesus said He came to set the captives free.

So we have the image of the Church storming the gates of Hell. What is our purpose in doing this? To tear them down. Why? To set our fellow men and women free.

I pray for mercy for all souls. There is not a single saint in heaven or on earth who hopes that a person would be damned. Who could will eternal suffering on anyone? Jesus commands us to forgive everyone and show mercy to all, including our enemies, those who hate us. Will He not do the same?

He taught St. Faustina the Chaplet of Divine Mercy and we pray there for forgiveness of the sins of the whole world. The angel taught the children of Fatima to pray for mercy for those most in need, “lead ALL souls to heaven, especially those most in need of your mercy”, the worst of all sinners.

Why would God inspire His saints to pray for something that He would refuse to grant?

Moses argued with God, and won. When He was on the mountain meeting with God and receiving the commandments, the people were down below woshipping a golden calf, and most likely doing other evil things. God told Moses that He was going to destroy all the people and raise up people for Himself from Moses’s family. Moses told God not to do this, or else everyone would say God led His people out of the slavery of Eygpt into the desert so He could kill them all. God agreed to not wipe out the Jews.

We also all do evil things. We are sinners and we rely on mercy. God forgive us. there is not a single saint who would claim he or she deserved heaven. They tell us they are all sinners. Mercy is not something you deserve.

Learning from Moses I pray for all souls. God, if you allow billions of souls to fall into hell, it will be said of you that you created them to destroy them. If you came to save sinners and 5 out of 33,000 get saved, you did not achieve your purpose. Save us from the fires of hell and lead ALL souls to heaven, especially those most in need of your mercy.

Holy Mary mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of death. Surely she does. Does Jesus refuse His mother’s prayers? If He does, heaven will be a very sad place to be. She cries for her people. God can not even console His mother with the joys of heaven and His presence, while her people are suffering elsewhere. When she appears here on earth she is crying. But heaven is supposed to be a place were there is no grief, mourning, sorrow or tears. All the saints in heaven pray for us. Will God refuse to hear them all?

The gates of hell will not prevail. We will tear them down. Jesus also gave us another command. “Be not afraid”.
 
grandfather said:
Let’s look at the numbers again. Firstly, someone wrote that this was during the Black Plague. Saint Bernard died 200 years before the black plague, so that rules out the plague as a cause of so many deaths in an hour. What else in history might have happened that would be the cause of som many deaths in one hour? History is silent.

The city of Pompei was entirely wiped out by a volcano, Mt. Vesuvius, in antiquity. Natural disasters like this are all recorded in history. This was a big one and as a result it is well remembered. The population of Pompei is estimated to have been 10 to 20,000.

Saint Bernard died in about 1154 if I recall. I do not believe there is any historical event that would have taken 33,000 lives in one hour in that year, but I could be wrong.

We should assume that this number of deaths, 33,000, was fairly average, normative, if history can not provide an event that would explain why there would be so many in a particular hour.

If that many people died in one hour, over the course of a year it would come to about 300 million deaths. The entire population of the world in that century was over 250, but less than 300 million.

The story is not believable.
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. The population of the world is increasing, so if 33,000 died, maybe 60,000 were born in that hour.
 
Steven_John said:
This thread and its statistics of who’s in and who’s out really show me i am destined for hell. I am not arguing thats its wrong just that i and by the thread most of us here are destined for the lake of fire.

Read the whole sermon here.

olrl.org/snt_docs/fewness.shtml

Hearing the 5/33,000 story has forced me to take a look at myself, and yes, I too am on the highway to hell. (although i dont sing about it). If I dont change the way I’m living, I will burn for eternity. This is the point of the sermon. To get us to repent, and actually change.
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