5 women approved to preach

[Doc2be]

Crall said, “I have a great love for evangelization and take seriously sharing my faith. I thought (preaching) was another way I could do that.” ***She has led a celebration of the Word with Communion ***when Father Mike Volkmer, CPPS, pastor of St. Mary’s in Albia, was gone, and appreciated being able to gather parishioners despite his absence.

I would assume this means that she used previously consecrated Eucharists from the Tabernacle and that there was no consecrated Blood…otherwise she would have celebrated mass in its entirety.

I am all for the lay helping God’s flock, but I do think there are limits. I also do not understand how there can be reconciliation without a priest. The only way I can see that working out is if the priest is running late and the Lay person starts the communal Reconciliation with the liturgy of the word. Yet, at the same time, just wait for the priest to arrive. That whole section just doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[aimee]

The whole idea is suspect and a slippery slope to abuse…

not a good idea…

 

[PJM]

That was the headlines for my diocesan newspaper.

5 women approved to preach.

I was hoping our new bishop would turn things around. It appears as though things are gradually getting more heterodoxical.

I wonder what 5 Women and no men?

I know one of the Women. She is very Pro Women’s ordination. She is also the Pastoral life administrator for two priesless parishes. Many people call her Father (name).

I am sure I will be accused of Misogyny but I continue to shake my head at the constant ignoring of priestly and religoius vocations. And the overt promotion of Lay leadership.

I wonder if the whole thing is by design.

From The Code of Cannon Law:
Can. 764 Without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 765, ***presbyters and deacons possess the faculty of preaching ***everywhere; this faculty is to be exercised with at least the presumed consent of the rector of the church, unless the competent ordinary has restricted or taken away the faculty or particular law requires express permission.

"Can. 766 Lay persons can be permitted to preach in a church or oratory, if necessity requires it in certain circumstances or it seems advantageous in particular cases, according to the prescripts of the conference of bishops and without prejudice to ⇒ can. 767, §1.

Can. 767 §1. Among the forms of preaching, the homily, which is part of the liturgy itself and is reserved to a priest or deacon, is preeminent; in the homily the mysteries of faith and the norms of Christian life are to be explained from the sacred text during the course of the liturgical year.

§2. A homily must be given at all Masses on Sundays and holy days of obligation which are celebrated with a congregation, and it cannot be omitted except for a grave cause.

§3. It is strongly recommended that if there is a sufficient congregation, a homily is to be given even at Masses celebrated during the week, especially during the time of Advent and Lent or on the occasion of some feast day or a sorrowful event.

§4. It is for the pastor or rector of a church to take care that these prescripts are observed conscientiously."

Can. 757 It is proper for presbyters, who are co-workers of the bishops, to proclaim the gospel of God; this duty binds especially pastors and others to whom the care of souls is entrusted with respect to the people committed to them. It is also for deacons to serve the people of God in the ministry of the word in communion with the bishop and his presbyterium."

I’m all for equal rights, but not disobedience. Even the Bishop, cannot licitly, permit this.

Look for him and the “go-along” priest to pull a "was is “is?” kind of "discussion and attempt to redefine what a “homily” is:blush:

If it comes to pass, write your Bishop quoting CCL. Id he continues copy all communication and send to the papal Nuncio in washingtom DC.

 

[benedictgal]

There is internal contradiction in this article, though. First, “a one-year trial period in which the lay Catholics may preach in a priest’s or deacon’s absence” is suspicious. Surely the trial period requires the absence of both a priest and a deacon. A Mass (with a priest, obviously!) without a deacon is not a valid place for a layman to preach. In a “Sunday Celebration in the Absence of a Priest” at which a deacon presides, why would a layman preach instead of the deacon?

The article says that “the lay people may preach at reconciliation or funeral services, a celebration of the Word or in other official situations as church representatives”. Clearly, these must all be in the absence of priests and deacons as the article said, right? There is no such thing as a reconciliation service without a priest. In the other situations, hopefully there are no priests or deacons either. I’m curious what “official situations” they have in mind.

You rightly observe, in your last paragraph, the glaring contradiction. At reconciliation services, there is a priest, or priests, present. Clearly it belongs to the priest to preach at these, or, even a deacon (I believe–it was done once at our Cathedral and at my old Austin parish). This particular liturgy forms part of a sacrament that will be imparted individually, such impartation that only a priest or a bishop can do. This does not make any sense at all.

I am perplexed. Is the diocese in question suffering such a severe shortage of priests (let alone deacons) that this really needs to happen? Furthermore, isn’t there something regardnig limiting Communion services to those situations where there is a genuine need (SCAP)? This is a big red herring.

 

[benedictgal]

However, even this carries certain restrictions. According to the Congregation for Clergy:

Leading the Celebration at Funerals

In the present circumstances of growing dechristianization and of abandonment of religious practice, death and the time of obsequies can be one of the most opportune pastoral moments in which the ordained minister can meet with the non-practising members of the faithful.

It is thus desirable that Priests and Deacons, even at some sacrifice to themselves, should preside personally at funeral rites in accordance with local custom, so as to pray for the dead and be close to their families, thus availing of an opportunity for appropriate evangelization.

The non-ordained faithful may lead the ecclesiastical obsequies provided that there is a true absence of sacred ministers and that they adhere to the prescribed liturgical norms. (111) Those so deputed should be well prepared both doctrinally and liturgically.

As I wrote in my prevoius post, there needs to be a compelling need for this to happen.

 

[benedictgal]

From The Code of Cannon Law:
Can. 764 Without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 765, ***presbyters and deacons possess the faculty of preaching ***everywhere; this faculty is to be exercised with at least the presumed consent of the rector of the church, unless the competent ordinary has restricted or taken away the faculty or particular law requires express permission.

"Can. 766 Lay persons can be permitted to preach in a church or oratory, if necessity requires it in certain circumstances or it seems advantageous in particular cases, according to the prescripts of the conference of bishops and without prejudice to ⇒ can. 767, §1.

Can. 767 §1. Among the forms of preaching, the homily, which is part of the liturgy itself and is reserved to a priest or deacon, is preeminent; in the homily the mysteries of faith and the norms of Christian life are to be explained from the sacred text during the course of the liturgical year.

§2. A homily must be given at all Masses on Sundays and holy days of obligation which are celebrated with a congregation, and it cannot be omitted except for a grave cause.

§3. It is strongly recommended that if there is a sufficient congregation, a homily is to be given even at Masses celebrated during the week, especially during the time of Advent and Lent or on the occasion of some feast day or a sorrowful event.

§4. It is for the pastor or rector of a church to take care that these prescripts are observed conscientiously."

Can. 757 It is proper for presbyters, who are co-workers of the bishops, to proclaim the gospel of God; this duty binds especially pastors and others to whom the care of souls is entrusted with respect to the people committed to them. It is also for deacons to serve the people of God in the ministry of the word in communion with the bishop and his presbyterium."

I’m all for equal rights, but not disobedience. Even the Bishop, cannot licitly, permit this.

Look for him and the “go-along” priest to pull a "was is “is?” kind of "discussion and attempt to redefine what a “homily” is:blush:

If it comes to pass, write your Bishop quoting CCL. Id he continues copy all communication and send to the papal Nuncio in washingtom DC.

Should the bishop not respond, then the matter should be taken to Cardinal Canizales, the new prefect for the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, not the Papal Nuncio. The Papal Nuncio will only turn around and give the letter back to the bishop. You should include copies of your corresopndence with the bishop and sent the original letter to your bishop certified, return receipt requested. Send a copy of the certified bill to Rome as well as proof that the letter was sent to your local ordinary.

 

[palmas85]

I don’t see the problem at all and shame shame on those who do.:tsktsk: :tsktsk:

This Diocese is obviously very progressive and on the cutting edge so to speak. Much the same as my old Diocese of many years ago deep in the heart of Texas. In my parish, as there was no assigned priest, the good sisters took care of everything.

EVERYTHING.

Instruction, planning, baptisms, funerals and yes, the Mass itself.

Not only did they start it, they finished it completely. No need for a Priest at all in that Parish. Nope, the consecration went very well without them and since the Parish was overwhelmingly Latino, the sisters felt that the Host should represent the culture of those present, you know inculturation and all that so corn tortillas were used:thumbsup:

Of course there were some limitations there. Those of us who worked for the federal government, yes, I did for a while, were deemed not worthy to receive due to our association with a repressive government who had abdicated their responsibility for the poor and and was responsible for all of the worlds suffering.

We shared in that collective guilt as I’m sure you are all aware.

On the rare occasion that a Priest would show up, he was usually only all too willing to take a back seat and let the good sisters continue on their enlightened path to equality and such.

I see this program as being the spearhead so to speak of the new wave…:bigyikes:

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I don’t see the problem at all and shame shame on those who do.:tsktsk: :tsktsk:

This Diocese is obviously very progressive and on the cutting edge so to speak. Much the same as my old Diocese of many years ago deep in the heart of Texas. In my parish, as there was no assigned priest, the good sisters took care of everything.

EVERYTHING.

Instruction, planning, baptisms, funerals and yes, the Mass itself.

Not only did they start it, they finished it completely. No need for a Priest at all in that Parish. Nope, the consecration went very well without them and since the Parish was overwhelmingly Latino, the sisters felt that the Host should represent the culture of those present, you know inculturation and all that so corn tortillas were used:thumbsup:

Of course there were some limitations there. Those of us who worked for the federal government, yes, I did for a while, were deemed not worthy to receive due to our association with a repressive government who had abdicated their responsibility for the poor and and was responsible for all of the worlds suffering.

We shared in that collective guilt as I’m sure you are all aware.

On the rare occasion that a Priest would show up, he was usually only all too willing to take a back seat and let the good sisters continue on their enlightened path to equality and such.

I see this program as being the spearhead so to speak of the new wave…:bigyikes:

I want to say I wish you were joking… but I know you are not.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

That was the headlines for my diocesan newspaper.

5 women approved to preach.

I was hoping our new bishop would turn things around. It appears as though things are gradually getting more heterodoxical.

I wonder what 5 Women and no men?

I know one of the Women. She is very Pro Women’s ordination. She is also the Pastoral life administrator for two priesless parishes. Many people call her Father (name).

I am sure I will be accused of Misogyny but I continue to shake my head at the constant ignoring of priestly and religoius vocations. And the overt promotion of Lay leadership.

I wonder if the whole thing is by design.

I am very pro-guys. Priest, deacons, and alter servers. I have almost convinced my parish of this and they know I am not a sexist because I often hang out with the girls cause their like my sisters. So just keep up the fight. Have you contacted the bishop yet?

 

[SacredHeartFan]

I though baptism was the only sacrement that could be celebrated by a lay person??

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I though baptism was the only sacrement that could be celebrated by a lay person??

Since when? I was under the impression that baptism by a layperson was only in EXTREME emergencies.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Since when? I was under the impression that baptism by a layperson was only in EXTREME emergencies.

I knew that part but what about the whole funeral thing?? I never heard of that!

 

[benedictgal]

Since when? I was under the impression that baptism by a layperson was only in EXTREME emergencies.

That is true. Here is what the 1997 document issued by the Congregation for Clergy, concerning the collaboration of the non-ordained lay faithful in the sacred ministry of the priest, says:

The Minister of Baptism

Particularly praiseworthy is the faith with which many Christians, in painful circumstances of persecution, or in missionary territories or in special cases of necessity, have afforded and continue to afford the Sacrament of Baptism to new generations of Christians in the absence of ordained ministers.

Apart from cases of necessity, canonical norms permit the non ordained faithful to be designated as extraordinary ministers of Baptism (109) should there be no ordinary minister or in cases where he is impeded. (110) Care should be taken however to avoid too extensive an interpretation of this provision and such a faculty should not be conceded in an habitual form.

Thus, for example, that absence or the impediment of a sacred minister which renders licit the deputation of the lay faithful to act as an extraordinary minister of Baptism, cannot be defined in terms of the ordinary minister’s excessive workload, or his non-residence in the territory of the parish, nor his non-availability on the day on which the parents wish the Baptism to take place. Such reasons are insufficient for the delegation of the non ordained faithful to act as extraordinary ministers of Baptism.

So, while this is allowed, the circumstances under which this can be done are very limited.

 

[benedictgal]

I knew that part but what about the whole funeral thing?? I never heard of that!

Please see post #26. I quoted from the same document that I quoted in my last post.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Please see post #26. I quoted from the same document that I quoted in my last post.

Oh, thank you! We used to not get along and now i appriciate your wisdom!! Just to let you know, I really reformed my parish! We have sacred and reverent masses now, but we have youth concerts in the community center with praise and worship to get our youth on fire and we use those concerts to give them a short lesson on reverence for the Eucharist and the importance of the sacred in the mass!

 

[benedictgal]

Oh, thank you! We used to not get along and now i appriciate your wisdom!! Just to let you know, I really reformed my parish! We have sacred and reverent masses now, but we have youth concerts in the community center with praise and worship to get our youth on fire and we use those concerts to give them a short lesson on reverence for the Eucharist and the importance of the sacred in the mass!

I am very proud of you. Are you still discerning a vocation to the priesthood?

 

[SacredHeartFan]

I am very proud of you. Are you still discerning a vocation to the priesthood?

yes mam’! I was thinking MFVA in alabama but I think I would make a greater impact as a diocesan priest. I will be the priest that reads the popes letters and stuff during the homily. The only political thing i will preach during the mass is abortion. I think priests need to focus on the spiritual life in the pulpit not politics. If you want to carry on this conversation please PM me. I think we’re off subject!!

 

[Paladin_V]

I had the opportunity to spend three weeks on a mission trip to rural Panama with fellow Catholic University students to live and work with the people. In this particular situation (which is common to many places in Central/South America) there is one priest to serve 5 “parishes” and each “parish” celebrates Mass once a month or so. In the interim, persons who have been trained in catechesis, in this case a woman who is a community leader, celebrates communion services and gives a sermon. They are responsible for the general catechesis of the community.

Obviously this is not ideal and certainly not the case in this diocese. I’m wary of this case… as someone said, it’s a slippery slope. The deacon’s comments in the article did not sit well with me and my instinct tells me that this ought to be closely monitored.

Still, I wanted to remind everyone that the majority of the world suffers greatly from a lack of priests and if it wasn’t for lay ministers preaching and leading the community, a vast number of people would be in serious trouble. So praise God for the ministry of lay people and may God bless us with an abundance of priests that all may be able to worship as they ought to be able to worship.

 

[benedictgal]

I had the opportunity to spend three weeks on a mission trip to rural Panama with fellow Catholic University students to live and work with the people. In this particular situation (which is common to many places in Central/South America) there is one priest to serve 5 “parishes” and each “parish” celebrates Mass once a month or so. In the interim, persons who have been trained in catechesis, in this case a woman who is a community leader, celebrates communion services and gives a sermon. They are responsible for the general catechesis of the community.

Obviously this is not ideal and certainly not the case in this diocese. I’m wary of this case… as someone said, it’s a slippery slope. The deacon’s comments in the article did not sit well with me and my instinct tells me that this ought to be closely monitored.

Still, I wanted to remind everyone that the majority of the world suffers greatly from a lack of priests and if it wasn’t for lay ministers preaching and leading the community, a vast number of people would be in serious trouble. So praise God for the ministry of lay people and may God bless us with an abundance of priests that all may be able to worship as they ought to be able to worship.

Yes, there are many parts in the world, especially missionary outposts, where such a service is needed. However, as you observed, this is not the case with the U.S. diocese in question.

Perhaps this diocese needs to engender more vocations to the diaconate and the priesthood. I am also aware that some bishops are going to India to try to get priests from that country. Given the situation in India, I believe that there would be quite a few priests who would want to come here. The bottom line is that we need to pray for the bishop and for the diocese.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Yes, there are many parts in the world, especially missionary outposts, where such a service is needed. However, as you observed, this is not the case with the U.S. diocese in question.

Perhaps this diocese needs to engender more vocations to the diaconate and the priesthood. I am also aware that some bishops are going to India to try to get priests from that country. Given the situation in India, I believe that there would be quite a few priests who would want to come here. The bottom line is that we need to pray for the bishop and for the diocese.

I fast on mondays for christian indians

what they go through is just as bad as what the romans did! except now humans have more experience which is sad!