50 Shades of Grey

[knotanes]

Uh… I find it a little disturbing that you are suggesting that we have to imagine someone as ugly to determine if something is inappropriate or not. It doesn’t matter what somebody looks like…a sin is a sin is a sin. And imagining other people engaged in sex acts is a bit too close to the sin of lust, I don’t care how I have to imagine how ugly they may be to find it unentertaining or to decide if its something I should read or see. I’m entertaining a lustful thought or image, no thanks.

Sorry, I guess I didn’t put that across very well. That’s not really what I meant.

I’m repulsed by the things I’ve heard about this book.

To me, all things like this are ugly (by their nature) but it seems like no one notices because they always picture these things done by youthful or beautiful people.

I’ve heard some mothers getting very excited about Angelina Jolie having a part in the movie.

Really?

I’m not picturing it for the sake of a lustful image, I’m saying, the very idea of dropping “ugly” people into these roles would make the disgusting nature of the behavior more apparent to the general public. Imagine a movie poster of unattractive people trying to pose with the ridiculously serious faces you see on movie posters.

It wouldn’t look sexy or interesting, it would appear as it really is: absurd.

Generally speaking, this is the way I see things. Most of the time, I hear about something like this book, and it just seems to stupid to be real. How does anyone write good satire with this material out there? The concepts satirize themselves.

Youth and beauty seem to really trick people into enjoying a lot of really insanely stupid things. On a 20 year old, there might be someone willing to think it is “cool” but on a 40/50/60 year old it just looks sad–pathetic.

It’s just a thought. I’m simply saying these things don’t age well.

You’re right, they’re bad to begin with, but once the pretty people aren’t doing it, the offensiveness of the content doesn’t have ANYTHING to hide behind.

Things like this reduce the status of humanity to rutting animals in the zoo.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

40 is middle aged?

I just can’t get my head around this phenomenon.

There are many, many 'bodice rippers" in the bookstores that are quite explicit. They don’t seem to have everyone talking and don’t seem to elicit conversation (and CAF threads)

This book is supposedly poorly written, and unfortunately not the first “dirty book”.

According to Dr. Drew Pinskey, the male protagonist has some type of personality disorder.

Yet I go to family dinners, my 20 year old niece talks about reading this, her 40 year old divorced aunt wishes to meet an idiot —(I mean man) like this.

That’s another thing I don’t get, the complete lack of circumspection in discussing this book. I’ve unfortunately have seen and read bad things before, never would it cross my mind to talk about this at a dinner with my grandmother and uncle at the table.

I must live like a cloistered nun. None of my friends nor anyone I know has mentioned this book to me, and if/when someone does…

It’s gonna get ugly REAL fast. And that person will be crossed off my friends’ list immediately. I don’t need that kind of idiot in my life.

 

[anp1215]

Sorry, I guess I didn’t put that across very well. That’s not really what I meant.

I’m repulsed by the things I’ve heard about this book.

To me, all things like this are ugly (by their nature) but it seems like no one notices because they always picture these things done by youthful or beautiful people.

I’ve heard some mothers getting very excited about Angelina Jolie having a part in the movie.

Really?

I’m not picturing it for the sake of a lustful image, I’m saying, the very idea of dropping “ugly” people into these roles would make the disgusting nature of the behavior more apparent to the general public. Imagine a movie poster of unattractive people trying to pose with the ridiculously serious faces you see on movie posters.

It wouldn’t look sexy or interesting, it would appear as it really is: absurd.

Generally speaking, this is the way I see things. Most of the time, I hear about something like this book, and it just seems to stupid to be real. How does anyone write good satire with this material out there? The concepts satirize themselves.

Youth and beauty seem to really trick people into enjoying a lot of really insanely stupid things. On a 20 year old, there might be someone willing to think it is “cool” but on a 40/50/60 year old it just looks sad–pathetic.

It’s just a thought. I’m simply saying these things don’t age well.

You’re right, they’re bad to begin with, but once the pretty people aren’t doing it, the offensiveness of the content doesn’t have ANYTHING to hide behind.

Things like this reduce the status of humanity to rutting animals in the zoo.

I get what you’re saying. Some people may find themselves getting “excited” by things like this, so in order to stop themselves being tempted or becoming excited, it might help to picture the people in the act as someone they find utterly unattractive. It might help to put it out of their mind and focus on something else.

which reminds me of another quote,
Margaret Thatcher naked on a cold day!

 

[knotanes]

I must live like a cloistered nun. None of my friends nor anyone I know has mentioned this book to me, and if/when someone does…

It’s gonna get ugly REAL fast. And that person will be crossed off my friends’ list immediately. I don’t need that kind of idiot in my life.

:grouphug: Hug your friends, then. They must be a very special group of ladies. I’m hoping to make more friends like that, but it’s proved somewhat difficult.

Try not to go to hard on the others, though. I’m thankful God has provided me with the ability to see the stupidity and ugliness for what it is. All we can do is pray those who have been suckered in by this kind of nonsense will some day be given the same gift of clarity

 

[knotanes]

I get what you’re saying. Some people may find themselves getting “excited” by things like this, so in order to stop themselves being tempted or becoming excited, it might help to picture the people in the act as someone they find utterly unattractive. It might help to put it out of their mind and focus on something else.

which reminds me of another quote,
Margaret Thatcher naked on a cold day!

Yes, that is where I was going…

Except for that Margaret Thatcher part.



uch:

Ew.

I was thinking more along the lines of Margaret Thatcher doing a Madonna dance routine. Which is bad enough.

No.

Ew.

 

[anp1215]

Yes, that is where I was going…

Except for that Margaret Thatcher part.



uch:

Ew.

I was thinking more along the lines of Margaret Thatcher doing a Madonna dance routine. Which is bad enough.

No.

Ew.

hahaha! sorry!

 

[PatriceA]

Youth and beauty seem to really trick people into enjoying a lot of really insanely stupid things. On a 20 year old, there might be someone willing to think it is “cool” but on a 40/50/60 year old it just looks sad–pathetic.

It’s just a thought. I’m simply saying these things don’t age well.

You’re right, they’re bad to begin with, but once the pretty people aren’t doing it, the offensiveness of the content doesn’t have ANYTHING to hide behind.

Things like this reduce the status of humanity to rutting animals in the zoo.

I think its the “things don’t age well” that I’m objecting to. Beauty to me is ageless and I know some people that to me are more beautiful now that they’re older, and wiser. I’m sure to someone Margaret Thatcher is even beautiful since she has been mentioned. I do agree with you that youth and beauty trick people into enjoying a lot of stupid stuff. We’re a society as a whole that enjoy the superficial over substance. The problem with the book is not just about two attractive people engaging in questionable sexual acts, the problem of the book is that many women are inserting themselves into the characters and the scenes of the book. They’re not imaging beautiful or ugly people acting out the sex scenes, they’re imagining themselves acting out the sex scenes. They have reduced their marital relations into lust and have objectified themselves and their spouses in the process. That’s what is the real hard ugliness of this book and what it has created.

 

[knotanes]

I think its the “things don’t age well” that I’m objecting to. Beauty to me is ageless and I know some people that to me are more beautiful now that they’re older, and wiser. I’m sure to someone Margaret Thatcher is even beautiful since she has been mentioned. I do agree with you that youth and beauty trick people into enjoying a lot of stupid stuff. We’re a society as a whole that enjoy the superficial over substance. The problem with the book is not just about two attractive people engaging in questionable sexual acts, the problem of the book is that many women are inserting themselves into the characters and the scenes of the book. They’re not imaging beautiful or ugly people acting out the sex scenes, they’re imagining themselves acting out the sex scenes. They have reduced their marital relations into lust and have objectified themselves and their spouses in the process. That’s what is the real hard ugliness of this book and what it has created.

I’m not trying to say that being older is the same as being ugly.

There are many different ways of being beautiful. Real, lasting beauty is dignified and lasting. I’m particularly fond of quite a few older actresses that continue to do amazing work. This has nothing to do with them.

I’m talking about the temporary state of being young, fresh, and well constructed. The ephemeral kind of beauty that really is only skin deep.

Obviously, these women must be picturing a man in their fantasies. They probably aren’t picturing Karl Rove.

But, that aside, we do agree. The book is ugly. It’s ugly in what it says about human relationships in general, ugly in what it does to women who allow it to warp their sex-lives, and ugly, as many have pointed out, for the lack of skill with which it was put on the page.

Absolutely no redeeming value whatsoever–even from a purely secular academic MFA sort of standpoint it’s garbage.

 

[Rence]

40 is middle aged?

I just can’t get my head around this phenomenon.

There are many, many 'bodice rippers" in the bookstores that are quite explicit. They don’t seem to have everyone talking and don’t seem to elicit conversation (and CAF threads)

This book is supposedly poorly written, and unfortunately not the first “dirty book”.

The characters are likeable. I think that’s what it is. I found myself liking them both, and wanting to see how it all ended. Despite some poorly written scenes.

According to Dr. Drew Pinskey, the male protagonist has some type of personality disorder.

I don’t think the protagonist has a personality disorder.

 

[AthenaC]

I didn’t think the book 50 shades was about adultery? I don’t think either of the main characters are married to anyone else from what my friends reading the books have said. Maybe they left that out of the discussion?

I thought I had read somewhere that the male protagonist was married, but I could be wrong. I have not read the books (nor do I intend to), and I don’t spend a lot of time reading about them either.

Forgive me if I misrepresented the plot.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The characters are likeable. I think that’s what it is. I found myself liking them both, and wanting to see how it all ended. Despite some poorly written scenes.

I don’t think the protagonist has a personality disorder.

Inflicting pain upon other person for sexual gratification is a personality disorder.

 

[Rejoice_Always]

Inflicting pain upon other person for sexual gratification is a personality disorder.

Doesn’t that depend on the individual and an assessment from a qualified mental health professional? My understanding is limited, but as I understand it one can have such tendencies and not suffer from a personality disorder whatsoever.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that it may not be a black-and-white issue? Point me in the right direction if I am mistaken.

 

[Rence]

Inflicting pain upon other person for sexual gratification is a personality disorder.

What personality disorder would that be?

 

[Rence]

I thought I had read somewhere that the male protagonist was married, but I could be wrong. I have not read the books (nor do I intend to), and I don’t spend a lot of time reading about them either.

Forgive me if I misrepresented the plot.

No, neither one is or was married. The books are really not that big of a deal. You’re not missing much, and it’s not worth getting upset about. Everyone has their own taste in reading, and that’s about all there is to it

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

If they are spicing up their marriages, it’s hard to argue with that.

But what concerns me about these books is that our protagonists are having adulterous sex, which frankly is not amusing to me. (But take my thoughts with a boulder of salt since I haven’t read the books, nor do I have any intention of doing so.)

Soft-porn/erotic fiction/porn etc is never ok, even if it is to “spice up” a marriage. Christopher West may be a good source to explain this. (I think you agree but were just said it is difficult to address that argument?)

 

[TheRealJuliane]

What personality disorder would that be?

Becoming sexually aroused through inflicting pain upon another human being - could be sociopath, psychopath, or at the least, narcissism. Of course narcissism is just a mild variation of sociopath, so the categories overlap.

In no way is getting sexual gratification from inflicting pain upon others, or accepting the infliction of pain form others, normal.

 

[Rence]

Becoming sexually aroused through inflicting pain upon another human being - could be sociopath, psychopath, or at the least, narcissism. Of course narcissism is just a mild variation of sociopath, so the categories overlap.

In no way is getting sexual gratification from inflicting pain upon others, or accepting the infliction of pain form others, normal.

Those blanket statements still don’t mean that an individual who feels sexual gratification from pain inflicted during sexual arousal have a personality disorder.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Those blanket statements still don’t mean that an individual who feels sexual gratification from pain inflicted during sexual arousal have a personality disorder.

I am not going to go around with you about this.

Sadism
Masochism
Bondage
“Discipline”

are all DISORDERED acts. They are perversions of sacred sexual intimacy. It is DISORDERED and sinful to do such things to another person’s body. I don’t care what label you give it. It’s perverted, not normal, sinful, disgusting, harmful, sick. There, how’s that?

 

[Rejoice_Always]

I am not going to go around with you about this.

Sadism
Masochism
Bondage
“Discipline”

are all DISORDERED acts. They are perversions of sacred sexual intimacy. It is DISORDERED and sinful to do such things to another person’s body. I don’t care what label you give it. It’s perverted, not normal, sinful, disgusting, harmful, sick. There, how’s that?

Don’t hold back! Tell us how you really feel! :clapping:

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Becoming sexually aroused through inflicting pain upon another human being - could be sociopath, psychopath, or at the least, narcissism. Of course narcissism is just a mild variation of sociopath, so the categories overlap.

In no way is getting sexual gratification from inflicting pain upon others, or accepting the infliction of pain form others, normal.

Um…I disagree. And the wide world of mental health professionals would disagree too. Calling someone a sociopath/psychopath (which is actually referred to as antisocial personality disorder) or a narcissist (narcissistic personality disorder) based on what sexually arouses them makes no sense and is irresponsible. Both diagnosis have a long list of symptoms and a patient must exhibit many of them to qualify. An interest in BDSM is not one of the characteristics, and even if it were there would have to be many others also present to warrent that kind of severe and devastating label.