500 Years of Protestantism: 38 Things Martin Luther Wrote

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EvangelCatholic said:
That is why we scratch our heads and don’t understand why the Missouri Synod has not joined their Lutheran brothers and embrace Anglicans, episcopacy/ apostolic succession and ultimately reunion with Rome.
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Even I, as A Catholic, have been able to understand why… Jon, Don, and Ben (Ok, that has all the makings for names in a great story, :)) have been pretty clear:

Closed Communion and Holy Orders to name a few. Their stand is very clear.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Interesting article written from the LCMS perspective. But all Lutherans are confessional; we know wherever we happen to be in the world that if a Lutheran church is nearby that the Eucharist will be celebrated and the Word proclaimed. The ELCA may, in-fact, be the most ‘progressive’ since I don’t think that there is any other Lutheran body that has full communion not only with Episcopalians but also Reformed. Our position is that we believe in the Real Presence and adore our Lord at the Atlar. That is our witness to the world as we reach out all people, just like Pope Francis.

Evangelical Catholics are essentially the entire Lutheran Communion in Europe, Africa and increasingly so in north America. That is why we scratch our heads and don’t understand why the Missouri Synod has not joined their Lutheran brothers and embrace Anglicans, episcopacy/ apostolic succession and ultimately reunion with Rome.
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It seems almost as if the LCMS and ELCA are two completely different Churches albeit both proclaim the Word and administer the sacraments.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Interesting article written from the LCMS perspective. But all Lutherans are confessional; we know wherever we happen to be in the world that if a Lutheran church is nearby that the Eucharist will be celebrated and the Word proclaimed. The ELCA may, in-fact, be the most ‘progressive’ since I don’t think that there is any other Lutheran body that has full communion not only with Episcopalians but also Reformed. Our position is that we believe in the Real Presence and adore our Lord at the Atlar. That is our witness to the world as we reach out all people, just like Pope Francis.

Evangelical Catholics are essentially the entire Lutheran Communion in Europe, Africa and increasingly so in north America. That is why we scratch our heads and don’t understand why the Missouri Synod has not joined their Lutheran brothers and embrace Anglicans, episcopacy/ apostolic succession and ultimately reunion with Rome.
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Two points:
  1. It isn’t that we haven’t embraced Anglican and the episcopacy. It is that we are not in full doctrinal agreement with Anglicans. The episcopacy and AS are not part of that lack of doctrinal agreement, however.
  2. There will be no “ultimate reunion with Rome” that allows for women in the priesthood.
Jon
 
JonNC said:
Two points:
  1. It isn’t that we haven’t embraced Anglican and the episcopacy. It is that we are not in full doctrinal agreement with Anglicans. The episcopacy and AS are not part of that lack of doctrinal agreement, however.
  2. There will be no “ultimate reunion with Rome” that allows for women in the priesthood.
Jon
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And thus, you will stay away from the bulk of Anglicanism, in the official, Communion sense.

GKC
 
MaryT777 said:
It seems almost as if the LCMS and ELCA are two completely different Churches albeit both proclaim the Word and administer the sacraments.
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It has to do with how we approach the Confessions and scripture. Ask.com has a reasonable and brief description:
Quia" versus “Quatenus” subscription
Lutheran church bodies and Lutheran individuals that identify themselves as confessional hold to a “quia” (Latin for “because”) rather than a “quatenus” (Latin for “insofar as”) subscription to the Book of Concord. Quia subscription (the Book of Concord is adhered to because it is faithful to the Scriptures) implies that the subscriber believes that there is no contradiction between the Book of Concord and the Scriptures. Quatenus subscription (the Book of Concord is adhered to insofar as it is faithful to the Scriptures) implies that the subscriber leaves room for the possibility that there might be a contradiction of the Scriptures in the Book of Concord in which case the subscriber would hold to the Scriptures against the Book of Concord.[10] Some Confessional Lutherans maintain that this distinguishes them from other (“mainline”) Lutheran bodies and Lutherans, who, they believe, hold to a quatenus subscription.
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ask.com/wiki/Confessional_Lutheranism?o=2801&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com

If you ask an ELCA Lutheran or an LCMS Lutheran about 90 - 95% of doctrine, we’ll agree.
Its that 5% or so, which usually revolves around, in our view, modernism (women’s ordination), and relativism (open communion), that we disagree on.

Jon
 
GKC said:
And thus, you will stay away from the bulk of Anglicanism, in the official, Communion sense.

GKC
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Which brings us to other Anglican groups. The LCMS is in dialogue with the ACNA. I personally find much interest in other Anglican groups that are traditional/high Church/ Anglo-Catholic.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
Which brings us to other Anglican groups. The LCMS is in dialogue with the ACNA. I personally find much interest in other Anglican groups that are traditional/high Church/ Anglo-Catholic.

Jon
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ACNA is variable on the subject of WO, with ++Duncan pulling one way and +Iker pulling the other.

And a sort of via media/via media, on high/low question.

GKC
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
Even I, as A Catholic, have been able to understand why… Jon, Don, and Ben (Ok, that has all the makings for names in a great story, :)) have been pretty clear:

Closed Communion and Holy Orders to name a few. Their stand is very clear.
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Also women ordination is against the confessions we’ve been “taught” by the above mentioned persons. 🙂
Mary.
 
GKC said:
ACNA is variable on the subject of WO, with ++Duncan pulling one way and +Iker pulling the other.

And a sort of via media/via media, on high/low question.

GKC
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I think if they go, finally, to WO, it will dampen the current dialogue we have with them.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
Which brings us to other Anglican groups. The LCMS is in dialogue with the ACNA. ** I personally find much interest in other Anglican groups that are traditional/high Church/ Anglo-Catholic**.

Jon
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Jon, everything that you ask for is coming. What is done on Sunday mornings is the Mass in Catholic, Episcopalian and Lutheran churches sharing the identical lectionary/ church calendar. 🤷
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Jon, everything that you ask for is coming. What is done on Sunday mornings is the Mass in Catholic, Episcopalian and Lutheran churches sharing the identical lectionary/ church calendar. 🤷
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And the identical concept of the priesthood?

GKC
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Jon, everything that you ask for is coming. What is done on Sunday mornings is the Mass in Catholic, Episcopalian and Lutheran churches sharing the identical lectionary/ church calendar. 🤷
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The sharing of the lectionary is done by many communions, as is the calendar. These have nothing to do with doctrine, at least none that are Church-dividing. GKC asks the pertinent question. Not to put too fine a point on it, but women’s ordination.

Jon
 
Women clergy who lead Mass each Sunday morning, should not be at the altar?
 
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