500 Years of Protestantism: 38 Things Martin Luther Wrote

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EvangelCatholic said:
Yes, a celibate priesthood must be an option.
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That wasn’t the reason for the comment. My point is there is no chance that Pope Francis, or any other pope, will allow women in the priesthood. Popes have said in the past that it isn’t up to the pope, as it is God’s command.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
That wasn’t the reason for the comment. My point is there is no chance that Pope Francis, or any other pope, will allow women in the priesthood. Popes have said in the past that it isn’t up to the pope, as it is God’s command.

Jon
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With Francis, you only need look back to John 23 and then move forward. There were many nuns leading worship in parishes, distributing the holy Communion today.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Is Francis listening?
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Yes, he is — to Blessed John Paul II
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.
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From ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
With Francis, you only need look back to John 23 and then move forward. There were many nuns leading worship in parishes, distributing the holy Communion today.
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Not for me to approve one way or the other, the distribution, there. In my flavor of Anglicans, no one touches, let alone distributes, the Body/Blood, save those properly ordained, in Holy Orders.

With Francis, let me know when he approves women confecting the Sacrament.

GKC
 
GKC said:
**Not for me to approve one way or the other, the distribution, there. In my flavor of Anglicans, no one touches, let alone distributes, the Body/Blood, save those properly ordained, in Holy Orders. **

With Francis, let me know when he approves women confecting the Sacrament.

GKC
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No lay eucharistic ministers?
 
GKC said:
Not for me to approve one way or the other, the distribution, there. In my flavor of Anglicans, no one touches, let alone distributes, the Body/Blood, save those properly ordained, in Holy Orders.

With Francis, let me know when he approves women confecting the Sacrament.

GKC
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…and at that point we look to the East.

Jon
 
GK said:
None.

GKC
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There are liturgical and/or ordained deacons/ deaconesses in Lutheran churches who distribute the elements. But with the mindset of parishioners who must to be out of the building within an hour, means lines up and down the aisle, multiple eucharist stations, I think the preferred norm is holy Orders at the altar but Roman Catholics allow lay distribution of both species.
 
CrossofChrist said:
I don’t know if that’s entirely accurate. When still a Cardinal, he said this:

*Since the Church’s jurisdiction naturally only
extends to the living, the excommunication of a person ends
with his death. Consequently, any questions dealing with the
lifting of Luther’s excommunication become moot: Luther’s
excommunication terminated with his death because judgment
after death is reserved to God alone. Luther’s excommunication
does not have to be lifted; it has long since ceased to exist.

However, it is an entirely different matter when we
ask if Luther’s proposed teachings still separate the churches
and thus preclude joint communion. Our ecumenical discussions
center on this question.*

On the latter idea, he answers that Luther’s teachings still do separate Lutherans and Catholics.
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Well said.👍
 
EvangelCatholic said:
There are liturgical and/or ordained deacons/ deaconesses in Lutheran churches who distribute the elements. But with the mindset of parishioners who must to be out of the building within an hour, means lines up and down the aisle, multiple eucharist stations, I think the preferred norm is holy Orders at the altar but Roman Catholics allow lay distribution of both species.
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I know.

GKC
 
steve_b said:
That link had an internal link. It gave more specifics
drvc.org/the-chancery/special-circumstances-for-the-admission-of-other-christians-to-communion-at-catholic-celebrations-of-the-eucharist-in-the-diocese-of-rockville-centre.html

From that internal link

"Episcopal and Protestant Christians may receive the sacraments of Eucharist, Reconciliation and Anointing of the Sick from a Catholic minister when in danger of death, or in situations of “grave necessity” or “grave and pressing need,” as interpreted and explained in section III above. In such cases the** five conditions of canon 844.4 must be met**:

  1. *]The person requesting the sacrament must be validly baptized. Baptism is valid when water is poured or the person is immersed and the trinitarian formula is used. For example, valid baptism is presumed for Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists. (21)
    *]The person must manifest the faith which the Catholic Church professes in the sacrament. As a minimum for Eucharistic sharing, the person must believe that in receiving the Eucharist we receive the body and blood of Christ. In some communions this is standard dogma; for example, Episcopalians and Lutherans can be presumed to believe in the real presence. For members of other communions there may be need for some further discussion concerning their belief in the Eucharist.
    *]The person must ask for the sacrament freely. The request must have been initiated by the person seeking Eucharistic communion.
    *]The person must be unable to have recourse for the sacrament to a minister of his or her own community. This condition is met when gaining access to one’s own minister poses a reasonable physical, moral or psychological difficulty, or causes serious inconvenience for the minister or recipient.
    *]The person must be properly disposed to receive the sacrament. As noted above “proper disposition” is the same as required for Catholics, i.e., not conscious of serious sin (see canon 916). “Being properly disposed means being in a good relationship with God, or if not, taking whatever steps are necessary to return to a good relationship with God.” (22)

    Re: #5
    Just thinking outloud, that’s not easy to do on the spur of the moment. What Protestant can meet the disposition and condition that a Catholic is required to be in, while living as a Protestant and intending to remain Protestant? Put another way, If a Protestant did meet the disposition and conditions of a Catholic, they would be Catholic…true? A Protestant intending to remain Protestant, shows they don’t meet the disposition and condition of a Catholic. This is why the Church puts the restrictions she does on those outside the Church receiving the Eucharist in the CC. By Protestants NOT being in union with the CC, they violate Our Lord’s Will and prayer John 17:20-23 Protestants receiving the Eucharist in the CC as bishops say, would presuppose a unity that doesn’t exist. That’s why only in extraordianary conditions such as close to death, are the sacraments of penance and Eucharist available to them providing all those 5 conditions are met.

    From JPII
    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/special_features/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_20030417_ecclesia_eucharistia_en.html note sections 43-46
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  1. what of those not intending to remain Protestant? Those in RCIA, for example, with the express intent of becoming Catholic for their now Catholic beliefs?
 
GKC said:
And you can still find Anglicans for which confirmation, in the 10-12 age range, preceding first communion, is the norm.

GKC
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That is still fairly common in the CofE, and was so for my own confirmation and first Communion.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
There are liturgical and/or ordained deacons/ deaconesses in Lutheran churches who distribute the elements. But with the mindset of parishioners who must to be out of the building within an hour, means lines up and down the aisle, multiple eucharist stations, I think the preferred norm is holy Orders at the altar but Roman Catholics allow lay distribution of both species.
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In my parish, one pastor distributes the Host and the other pastor distributes the chalice, and a elder distributes the individual cups. The pastors are trying to get everyone to use the common cup but it is taking time. We are about 50/50.
 
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