%57 of American Catholic support some rights for LGBT people.

[TheBreak]

English is not my native language, I’m sorry for any misspellings.

According to Evangelical website ( in my native language ) said that %57 of American Catholics support some rights for LGBT people. %38 of American Protestants support some rights for LGBT people. %8 of American Evangelicals support some rights for LGBT people. And %89 of Non-religious people support some rights for LGBT people.

I’m not surprised that the least people support the rights for LGBT people are Evangelicals. And proud that Catholic are the most even thought that %71 of Catholics in America believe that marriage is between one man and one woman.

But, my question is, Why? Why do in the west the most religious groups support some rights for LGBT people are Catholics ? ( For me there is nothing wrong with that ).

And you as Catholic, do you support some not all the rights for LGBT people. Like

1 - Laws protect LGBT people from discrimination.
2 - Laws protect LGBT people from getting fired from their jobs for being gay.
3 - Laws allow LGBT people to serve openly in military.
4 - The right for adoption.

PS: I hope this thread will not turn into tens of pages from members arguing with each other and then lost the main point of my question.

 

[Cojuanco]

It depends on what those “some rights” mean.

To take your four categories, here’s my take on them.

1. Depending on what you mean by discrimination, we would be bound a Catholics to support it. The Catechism condemns unjust discrimination against homosexuals.
2. With the usual religious exemptions, I would support this, as such would prohibit unjust discrimination.
3. I support granting such rights - if they are otherwise capable officers and men, and they have sex on their own time, it is not my right to interfere.
4. This would be the only one I’d oppose.

Gay marriage, however, I would most stringently oppose.

 

[Joe_5859]

It depends on what those “some rights” mean.

To take your four categories, here’s my take on them.

1. Depending on what you mean by discrimination, we would be bound a Catholics to support it. The Catechism condemns unjust discrimination against homosexuals.
2. With the usual religious exemptions, I would support this, as such would prohibit unjust discrimination.
3. I support granting such rights - if they are otherwise capable officers and men, and they have sex on their own time, it is not my right to interfere.
4. This would be the only one I’d oppose.

Gay marriage, however, I would most stringently oppose.

Exactly. That’s why I have trouble putting much stock in such “statistics.” All human beings are entitled to certain rights. But no human beings can claim as a “right” something to which they do not have a right.

The question of “some rights” is so generic as to be meaningless. What “rights” are being asked about?

 

[SamH]

What are “some rights”? The right to life? The right to vote?

In that case I’m surprised its only 57%.

 

[Joe_5859]

What are “some rights”? The right to life? The right to vote?

In that case I’m surprised its only 57%.

Of course, we’re getting this information second hand (or possibly thrid or fourth hand) without the benefit of seeing where the statistic came from. So we can only really speculate as to how the question was phrased.

If it was simply phrased as the OP phrased it about “some rights”, then that leaves it entirely up to the participant to fill in the blanks. I would probably read it like you did and say “Sure.” But I wouldn’t blame someone for reading into the question that the survey was asking about those specific “rights” (right to marry someone of the same sex, right for a homosexual couple to adopt children, etc.) which conflict with Catholic teaching.

Which basically makes the statistic meaningless.

 

[TheBreak]

I asked the same question too and that is why I added the 4 notes because I thought these might be what they were talking about.

 

[Joe_5859]

I asked the same question too and that is why I added the 4 notes because I thought these might be what they were talking about.

It’s pretty sad when we have to fill in the blanks ourselves. Statistics should be able to speak for themselves.

 

[SamH]

1 - Laws protect LGBT people from discrimination.
2 - Laws protect LGBT people from getting fired from their jobs for being gay.
3 - Laws allow LGBT people to serve openly in military.
4 - The right for adoption.

PS: I hope this thread will not turn into tens of pages from members arguing with each other and then lost the main point of my question.

Adoption is not a right.

Serving in the military is not a right.

There are already laws to prevent people from being fired for being gay.

Why should LGBT have special rights from discrimination that other people don’t have?

 

[TheBreak]

Adoption is not a right.

Serving in the military is not a right.

There are already laws to prevent people from being fired for being gay.

Why should LGBT have special rights from discrimination that other people don’t have?

Who told you that LGBT people have " special " rights. What? You mean to protect them from discrimination is not right? Why you sound like your “majesty” is the one who gave them these rights.

 

[rfournier103]

The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of property? Absolutely. The right to vote? Absolutely. The right to hold public office? Absolutely. The right to live among us and not be in fear of persecution & bodily harm? Absolutely.

“Marriage” is not a right.
Adoption is not a right.
Serving in the armed forces is not a right.

 

[Joe_5859]

Yes, I’m more in favor of anti-discrimination laws that apply to all rather than coming up with separate laws for every possible group we can think of. Grant it, I’m no law expert, but it just seems a lot simpler to me.

I haven’t really thought about the military scenario to have an opinion one way or the other, but I have a hard time disagreeing with Sam’s assertion that serving in the military is not a right.

In regards to adoption, the Church has already clearly spoken on the matter. Children should not be adopted by homosexual couples. (source)

Actually, in looking at that CDF document, they also list “military recruitment” as one of the “areas in which it is not unjust discrimination to take sexual orientation into account.”

 

[SamH]

Who told you that LGBT people have " special " rights. What? You mean to protect them from discrimination is not right? Why you sound like your “majesty” is the one who gave them these rights.

I didn’t say they had special rights. To issue special laws specifically guarantying them rights that others don’t have sounds discriminatory - doesn’t it?

 

[Polycarp1]

It depends on what those “some rights” mean.

To take your four categories, here’s my take on them.

1. Depending on what you mean by discrimination, we would be bound a Catholics to support it. The Catechism condemns unjust discrimination against homosexuals.
2. With the usual religious exemptions, I would support this, as such would prohibit unjust discrimination.
3. I support granting such rights - if they are otherwise capable officers and men, and they have sex on their own time, it is not my right to interfere.
4. This would be the only one I’d oppose.

Gay marriage, however, I would most stringently oppose.

As per number 3, what they are having is not sex, not procreative sex within the bonds of the sacrament of marrige. Homosexual acts are perversions of what God intended and would also be perversions if performed by hetrosexual married couples. I believe that persons with the added cross of homosexual tendencies should be treated fairly and with compassion but pretending that homosexual acts are okay and not our business is like watching a person drowning in a river and not helping because it’s not any of our business. A man’s semen is the seed of life and means of mankinds procreation as given and ordained by God. Homosexual acts by their very nature devalue and profane this gift and that is what is an abomination to God.

 

[rfournier103]

FURTHERMORE… why is it that someone who physically attacks a homosexual person can be sent away to prison for decades; while the same attack on a straight person would garner a sentence of a year’s worth of probation (for example)?

If someone attacked (or even murdered!) a friend or relative of mine, I would hate to think that a court of law would find his or her life not as valuable as the life of a homosexual person’s…

 

[rfournier103]

To issue special laws specifically guarantying them rights that others don’t have sounds discriminatory - doesn’t it?

FURTHERMORE… why is it that someone who physically attacks a homosexual person can be sent away to prison for decades; while the same attack on a straight person would garner a sentence of a year’s worth of probation (for example)?

If someone attacked (or even murdered!) a friend or relative of mine, I would hate to think that a court of law would find his or her life not as valuable as the life of a homosexual person’s…

Yes, it kind of does…

 

[TheBreak]

I thank each one of your for your opinion, I’m glad to see people who are okay with letting LGBT people live safely among us with no fear and it make me more proud to be catholic even though I know there are catholic who wants to see gay man dead. but these are small number of Catholics I believe.

God bless

 

[meltzerboy]

Adoption is not a right.

Serving in the military is not a right.

There are already laws to prevent people from being fired for being gay.

Why should LGBT have special rights from discrimination that other people don’t have?

Serving in the military may not be a right, but would you agree that if one is ALREADY serving in the military and doing the job satisfactorily, but it is found out (by whatever means) or rumored one is gay, that is have SSA, one should not be dismissed ONLY because of this?

 

[meltzerboy]

I thank each one of your for your opinion, I’m glad to see people who are okay with letting LGBT people live safely among us with no fear and it make me more proud to be catholic even though I know there are catholic who wants to see gay man dead. but these are small number of Catholics I believe.

God bless

There are Catholics, as well as non-Catholics, who have views in between: IOW, those who believe that gays should not be discriminated against except for those behaviors that are contrary to Church teaching. This doesn’t mean they want to see gay people dead.

 

[Allegra]

I would suspect !00% of American Catholics support SOME rights for gay people! Frankly, they deserve the same rights of any citizen. What they don’t deserve is special rights, above and beyond everyone elses. They shouldn’t be allowed to redefine marriage. They shouldn’t be allowed to try to force others to approve of their lifestyle or their choices, particularly other people’s minor children. They should not be fired merely for being gay, though I think such a law should be very specific because there are certain behaviors that some people may feel are “part of being gay” which I think should be grounds for termination. (ex: advocating for their lifestyle to other people’s children against the parents’ wishes.) I don’t think they should be discharged from the military simply for being gay, though being in the military is not really a right.

Similarly, adoption isn’t a right either, but I have mixed feelings about that. In some cases, such as when a gay person is a child’s next of kin or the person chosen by the parents, I think granting guardianship to a gay person is appropriate. I also feel that there are many single gay people who would make good foster parents. I’m not in favor of allowing gay couples to adopt children because I think it does a disservice to the children. They should have a mother and a father. On the other hand, in a hypothetical situation where there were no happily married couples available to raise the child (which is not the current reality) I think a gay couple would be preferable to having a baby raised in an institution. I think the current reality is that gay people like to think of adoption as a right that’s being deprived of them and many of them adopt children as a social experiment or to try and prove that they are a “normal family”.

 

[VanSensei]

It’s surprising to see 57% support gay rights despite the bishops trying to politicize the Church by taking a stance on same-sex marriage votes,