5th Marian dogma

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I am behind the times, I guess. I just read that a petition was signed by many thousands of people and sent to the pope ( JPII) asking him to declare the 5th Marian dogma which is that Mary is co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate. This was not done, was it? I agree with the advocate and maybe mediatrix, but the co-redemptrix doesn’t seem right to me; but what do I know, I am certainly not in any position to make decisions about these things.

Also, how would signing a petition lead a pope to do something? We can petition the pope on Dogma? 🤷
 
Medatrix and advocate seem to be much the same thing to me, and obviously we all regularly ask for her to be our advocate with God when we pray the ‘Hail Mary’.

Co-redemtrix seems to imply an equality with Jesus, which doesn’t seem to be right since the Blessed Virgin wasn’t divine in nature, even if she was protected from Original Sin.
 
It has not been declared dogma yet, but hopefully soon!

Yes, a group can petition the Holy Father to declare something dogma, as long as it is a traditionally held teaching, i.e. you can’t just petition to have Swiss Cheese is better than Cheddar made dogma, because it is not a teaching or traditionally held belief. Also, the dogma being petitioned must be (obviously) truth, and truth is revealed to us slowly. Now, the Blessed Virgin being co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate, are all supported by Scripture and Sacred Tradition, also many Saints and Holy People taught it. So, we just have to wait!
 
I don’t think it will ever become a formal dogma. Also I dont like the word Mediatrix, because it sounds TOO much like the word mediator, and Christ Jesus is our only mediator… I prefer the term intersessor instead… Just my ¢¢
 
The idea of Mary being co redemptrix comes from the fact that she participated in the redemption by saying yes to be the Mother of God.
 
I never saw a problem with calling Mary the co-redemptrix. How I look at it is Adam and Eve cooperated with each other for the fall of mankind while Jesus and Mary cooperated with each other for the redemption of mankind.
 
Credo_in_Deum said:
I never saw a problem with calling Mary the co-redemptrix. How I look at it is Adam and Eve cooperated with each other for the fall of mankind while Jesus and Mary cooperated with each other for the redemption of mankind.
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Exactly 🙂
 
LoyalViews said:
It has not been declared dogma yet, but hopefully soon!

Yes, a group can petition the Holy Father to declare something dogma, as long as it is a traditionally held teaching, i.e. you can’t just petition to have Swiss Cheese is better than Cheddar made dogma, because it is not a teaching or traditionally held belief. Also, the dogma being petitioned must be (obviously) truth, and truth is revealed to us slowly. Now, the Blessed Virgin being co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate, are all supported by Scripture and Sacred Tradition, also many Saints and Holy People taught it. So, we just have to wait!
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But Swiss Cheese is soo much better than Cheddar. It is an infallible teaching of the ordinary and universal magisterium.😉

Anyway, although I agree with the titles for explanations people here have already brought up, I don’t see why they should be dogma because all it will do is likely cause confusion, especially the co-redemptrix part. Even though any good Catholic should already agree with it.🤷
 
What purpose would dogmatising this serve?
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That’s a good question!

A dogma is formally defined when it is an important issue which worries Catholics.
I don’t see that anybody is much worried about this.
Besides,
the idea seems to be implied in the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, which is about Mary supplying a body to the Son of God to make him man.

Mary herself confirmed the Immaculate Conception doctrine at Lourdes, an idea that Catholics had always believed. The doctrine was formally defiined by the Pope four years later,
I don’t think Mary said anything about being co-redemptrix or mediatrix. That would have been the time to do it. Imagine simple-minded Bernadette coming up with all three of these ideas at once! Surely it would be a sign from Heaven. 👍
 
According to the apparitions of Our lady of All Nations, which has been approved by the Bishops, Mary said she wants people to petition the Holy Father for the dogma because once that is a dogma she can fully provide her intercession and help bring about peace.
 
Swiss_Guy said:
But Swiss Cheese is soo much better than Cheddar. It is an infallible teaching of the ordinary and universal magisterium.😉

Anyway, although I agree with the titles for explanations people here have already brought up, I don’t see why they should be dogma because all it will do is likely cause confusion, especially the co-redemptrix part. Even though any good Catholic should already agree with it.🤷
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Since I have to be obedient, I’ll accept that without complaing 😛

As for the titles, I’ll accept whatever the Church says.
 
Christine85

I looked up that link you gave in post 13.

Who are these people? You can’t tell from the website. Why the secrecy?

I noticed they sell stuff. :mad: There are 1,150,000,000 Catholics in the world. That’s a pretty big market.

Just because they “paint” Catholic all over their website doesn’t make it legitimate.

I’ve seen plenty of “Catholic” websites that have been, let us say, questionable as to their agendas and methods.

I suggest caution.

I see no movement in the Catholic Church to promote these ideas about Mary to formally defined dogmas. I’ve never heard it mentioned at Sunday Mass.

Apparently the Church has already decided the issue. The answer is ‘no’.
So what is that website trying to do?

I know this probably won’t change your mind. I wrote it for the rest of the board members.

( now I’ll get the usual negative remarks 🤷 Oh well. I have a thick hide. )
 
The “Final Dogma” is the work of condemned Dutch seer Ida Peerdeman whose “Mary” appeared to her shaking her fist, demanding that the “faithful” pressure the Vatican to adopt said “Final Dogma.” The “Final Dogma” consists of this: “The Lady of All Nations Who Once Was Mary: Coredemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate.”

“God the Father” appeared to Ida Peerdeman and had unkind things to say about the Jews just as the NAZI’s were scooping up the likes of Anne Frank. Steubenville Professor Mark Miravalle feels he has the freedom to disregard the Vatican’s instruction to not disseminate condemned works and does so through his group VOX POPULI (“voice of the people”) VOX POPULI engineered the petition drive that has swamped the Vatican with millions of signatures demanding the adoption of the “Final Dogma.”

Telling the Vatican to adopt some Marian Dogma to save the world doesn’t even compare to insisting that it is the “Final Dogma.” It is telling the Vatican to close the books on Marian dogma. Usually dogma is defined in response to confusion that needs the teaching authority of the Church to clarify.

Ida Peerdeman’s seerdom has been condemned since Pius XII. Miravalle wanted to do an end run around that technicality and VOX POPULI lobbied to have the “Final Dogma” considered on its own merits apart from the Ida Peerdeman angle. Under Cardinal Ratzinger, the Vatican dismissed the “Final Dogma” as confusing and unecessary. Which it is. One can still buy Ida Peerdeman’s work through VOX POPULI’s publishing arm, Queenship Publishing.
 
Please explain then why the prayer has been approved and the apparition was approved by the Bishop of Amsterdam. Where are your sources from?
 
:eek: So I just looked up Our Lady of all Nations on google , as I cannot sleep over this deception. Yes it has been approved by the local Bishop but not all stages have been passed . There are four stages that an apparition needs to pass, also it has not been approved by the Pope. oops. The deception of this kills me as I seriously thought it was all so legitimate. I should have done more research.
 
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